So there I was... Shopping for a new truck

[Grumpy8811]

I've had my 04 since brand new. I still have the window sticker. I would be pretty upset if I was in this situation. I have a lot of years, time working on it and money spent. At 20 years old, it's cool to be the original owner.
The thought of having to go newer on a Cummins or any other diesel for that matter is frightening to me. The emissions junk really turns me off.
Do I need a diesel? Not really. I do have four different things I tow including a car trailer and a pontoon boat but none of those require the smoke and rattle of my Cummins. I just love diesels.

one of my friends is still driving the truck his dad bought brand new... in 1962. technically he is the 2nd owner.

 

[Tuesdak]

At the same time, she has been a money pit from the word go compared to friends trucks like mine so she was turning in to my white whale.

So NEW gets you a warranty, get the MOPAR Extended warranty to cover loaners and rentals, and Lemon Law protection. This way wife has something that runs and drives.

My 2018 RAM is way cheaper to own from new than my 2003 that needed major repairs like engine, injectors, transmission rebuild… It has a warranty for the power my 03 was making. Things like ABS light are dealer problems Not Mine. My 2018 has been nearly trouble free vs the 03 and esp Dad’s 2020 Lemon GMC Savanna that’s spent more time in the shop than his driveway. It’s being “bought back”.

Wasn’t a fan of new either. But it’s reliable “Runs and $&#% drives” while the GMC lemon is in the shop is hard to beat. I don’t miss the payments to auto parts stores. Even Geno’s misses my needy 2003’s care packages.

 

[Crunch]

Wasn’t a fan of new either. But it’s reliable “Runs and $&#% drives”

I'd be a big fan of new...if it wasn't in the price range of a house, didn't collect all your personal data and sell it to insurance companies and whoever else wants all up in your grill, have that stupid feature that kills the engine when you stop the vehicle (probably doesn't apply to diesels), have lower quality interiors than a child's playhouse, requires a new set of tools just to reach where it is needed, and cost a fortune to keep up and repair. Other than that, I'm new's biggest fan...

 

[jjdiesel]

I've had my 04 since brand new. I still have the window sticker. I would be pretty upset if I was in this situation. I have a lot of years, time working on it and money spent. At 20 years old, it's cool to be the original owner.
The thought of having to go newer on a Cummins or any other diesel for that matter is frightening to me. The emissions junk really turns me off.
Do I need a diesel? Not really. I do have four different things I tow including a car trailer and a pontoon boat but none of those require the smoke and rattle of my Cummins. I just love diesels.

I feel the same way, bought my truck new and now have 204k on it. It's been the most trouble-free vehicle ever, and I've used it daily in my small construction business...just been a great truck and still is. The new ones look great but it seems like a roll of the dice as to reliability and impossible to trust dealership mechanics...not to mention the crazy prices. So, 20 yrs and counting for me baby!

 

[3rdGen_to1stGen]

Both sides of this argument makes sense. For example when I bought my 2004.5 it was never intended to be a stock truck so the first thing I did was throw away the exhaust and put an airdog on there along with the bank's intake and an edge.
Since then I replaced the front end steering the ball joints hubs bearings it has a new intercooler it had an all aluminum radiator because I got tired of the plastic braking when I had my top end done I just wanted the regular ARP head studs he ended up giving me the $1,200 ones by mistake which was a very happy accident the smarty wakes this thing right up I like the look of it better than I like the new trucks the new trucks seem a bit more squared off whereas the third generation truck seems like they have more voluptuous lines. Yes I despised throwing money at it all the time but I loved the fact that it was just a damn truck rather than a bunch of electronics and sensors and bull crap crammed into a truck. Now that the insurance company is reconsidering the value of my truck they may end up fixing it or I may be looking for something to tool around in while I put it back together or find something comparable and try to transfer over as many of the upgrades as I can to the new truck before I salvage the old. I don't really need a project like that right now but it certainly isn't beneath me.

On the other hand...

While I have been out and about looking at vehicles I have been looking at some of these new trucks. Expensive is right. I'm also a bit unfamiliar with what we can do with these. Not only did I see a nice 2013 w/ 50000 but I also saw a nice 2023 w/8900 miles.

So many white paint jobs too, like "the fun is over get to work and don't forget your DEF, it's a Brave New World Neo, that's the sound of inevitability, no more fishing for your fish and so on. Hope you enjoyed mechanical linkage, servos actuators and PCBs from here on out!"
Being the kind of guy who never wants to sell his Dodge ram diesel I'm not familiar with what we can do with these or what good years and bad years are for these newer trucks for example in 2013 were we using def yet, can a lot of the emissions bull crap be deleted and how much is that going to cost?
I can appreciate having a new truck but I also don't necessarily want a truck that the inside looks like some kind of a luxury vehicle. Is part of me ready to give in and just pay the bank instead of the parts store? maybe. But I'm always going to want to tinker and I am eventually going to get pissed off with the emissions stuff especially and what's this business about data collection?
Let's talk a little bit about 2007.5 6.7l to present, year ranges to avoid and the pros and cons.
This 2013 for example I hear that it had a 2013.5 improvement that makes it more powerful and fuel efficient or potentially problematic.
Another thing I'm finding is that sometimes a year newer doesn't mean better sometimes the previous year was better than the year after it.

Yes I am still looking at the 4Runner Yukon etc...for another role in the family, but whether I get one right away or it has to wait a while, I identify as a man with Cummins inline 6.

 

[Crunch]

...and what's this business about data collection?

I think it was Ford that got caught, but other manufacturers were doing the same thing. Computers + Connectivity = Privacy Disaster. Several years ago the CEO of Ford said that they knew more about your driving than you did. Fast forward to 2024, and it turns out that vehicle manufacturers are selling your vehicle data to other entities. Now, Ford claims they only sell your data to insurance companies with the owner's consent. But the sneaky workaround is that they sell it to data brokers, who then sell it to insurance companies. I first heard about this most recent mess via a story about drivers who noticed that their insurance premiums went up, and when they checked were told that it was due to things like hard braking, hard acceleration, etc. Here's an article about it:

I know how you drove last summer

And these days, finding a sneaky way to disable connectivity may brick your overpriced vehicle. It's all so integrated that who knows what won't work any more if you so much as clip a wire. The safest way might be to disable whatever antenna they use for connectivity. But even then, stuff could quit working when ET can't phone home. And I would bet that the data is still stored on your on-board computers, so they can probably download it when you take your vehicle to the dealership. I get pissed just thinking and writing about it. And it's not like I have something to hide. I just don't like the feeling that I am an unpaid employee in a company's marketing department. Hell, all of us are probably unpaid employees in the marketing departments of scores of companies. On the flip side, if they paid me $100K/year for that data I wouldn't care if they knew which hand holds the toilet paper.

 

[3rdGen_to1stGen]

I got the wife an SUV we all liked for her/us so that is settled. Insurance companies are a bunch of criminals and I am not going to take this lying down. Because of all this back and forth with USAA and the 2 hurricanes that came through and knocked out power, I told them that the production was forthcoming ASAP on all of the things that make my truck worthy of repair not total or if it is totaled what the value actually is. They told me submit a list with receipts so I made a nice excel sheet, kept it conservative and had receipts for everything totaling almost $14,000 in parts alone.
Then they made a new rule about if it is more that 12 months old (which is asinine since an upgrade does not lose it value efficacy after 12 months any more than it would if I bought it with those things on it.) Keep in mind this was their idea when I told them they did not know what they were talking about. Get this, one of the invoices when I re-did all the steering with the T-Steering as well as ball joints, bearings and Track bar (all Carli, top of the line) was a 13 month invoice. They added $11 to the payout. I asked what it was because that was the latest thing I had done. So why should they accept $11? They fumbled and could not tell me plus I was working. I told them I would need to talk to their supervisor again about actually getting someone out here (possibly independently) why they think they know better than me when they are going off of pictures and we are not done here etc... Essentially, no-one that understands some trucks do not have sparkplugs has been out to verify the damage or inspect the truck for correct value. I also think it would be important to determine if the frame is straight because then we would only be talking about a settlement. They are just trying to close. USAA represents Military members and families. What if I was deployed and they were pulling this?
I have no problem with them fixing it or letting it go. But with all that I have done, an enterprising scrap company could fix and paint this truck and I would see my VIN for sale on the Autotrader for $18000. I have seen used engines without all the top end work and 625+ studs for $6000. Rebuilt they go for more of course. So I am in the process of further appealing this with their supervisor and perhaps even his boss if needed, looking into an independent appraiser that knows what a diesel is and potentially juxtaposing that with someone that can check the frame for straightness. In the end if they will not be moved I am going to retain and sell a great number of things that they say add no value just on principle. I am hoping that a local 4X4 place that has used stuff may be able to do this for me as I have most of the stock items and I do not feel like collecting a ton of diff and trans fluid to get my deep covers off of there. I would even go so far as to remove the head studs if that is even possible. Certainly my custom rear bumper the CTS2 with the 3 different EAS modules for Turbo timer, EGT, fuel pressure sensor and the universal Y harness. Each of those EAS are an average of $180. I even have a box of things I was about to do so this makes me sad but I am not going to let them steal from me. I do not know what I would do with the AirDog FP-150 exactly or my Smarty but they are not getting it. I just cannot let my lament be someone else's jig to that extent on principle. 414000 in Upgrades. Even I was surprised. Just not as surprised when they came back with $11.
I may try to find someone interested in going in on flipping the salvage title with me or parting it out and selling the husk to a junkyard but again, not really a project I have time for.
These crooks should just capitulate and fix my truck but like I said, I think they just want to close it out and do not see me as a person; especially seeing as they have not come to see the truck or offer an expert evaluation based on my assertions that they are not only way off the mark but doing an injustice by making me start over with another truck since I think I am pretty turned off on the new truck idea.

On another note: There is a guy in our classifieds that did something similar to his 2003 (although a good bit more) and he was selling it for $36000. 3rd gens are out there going from $12000 to almost $20000. Starting over would be a project as well.

I am not to proud to take advice on the matter.

 

[3rdGen_to1stGen]

First and foremost I assume you are OK and no one else injured. That is all that really matters. Frankly the vehicle is expendable and can be replaced. Maybe repaired.

I would contact some body shops and get a couple of estimates. Insurance likes to "air bag deployed = totaled."

I would also look at prices for comparable pickups for sale. Let them know with receipts the new front end and other work and parts.

We went to the extreme to have a 2002 GMC Yukon rebuilt after it was rear ended, with serious injuries to the driver and passenger from the seats collapsing. The rear frame rails were replaced as they not only bent but were tearing at the bends. End of the day we couldn't find replacement seats and after all the work was done it was totaled. We went through the same low ball offers until we presented "for sale ads" that showed what amount would take to make us "whole". We had repainted it and rebuilt the front diff just prior to being hit.

Last your truck got word about you wanting to feed it Unicorn Farts, Biofuel, and ended it... Seriously there is an extreme risk using Biofuels that can become suddenly very expensive as you gamble your fuel injection system and engine. Today the diesel fuel I get at the pump is at the OEM Biodiesel limit of 5% for my 2018 RAM due to law requiring it. I can't even get off-road red generator fuel without Biodiesel contamination. The Bio reduces storage life and adsorbs more water into the fuel that allows bugs to grow in the fuel. Bugs that cause expensive problems! At least consider the risks that is glossed over in the Unicorn Rainbow land. In depth of my experience and dealing with ignorance from the supplier who ain't in business anymore (Good Riddance!) link below.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/ulsd-and-biodiesel-exposed.248698/

If you look at a 6.7 you want the ones with the DEF. The DPF equipped ~2007-2012 were trying to meet 2013 emissions early and were lots of soot choked trouble. You couldn't give me one of those years for FREE! Having owned a 2003 with a MT and now a 2018 Ram Cummins: I find it's cheaper to own the 2018 due to the "Payment at the parts store" the 2003 needed. My 2018 has better power and comfort with a warranty.

Also, no airbags deployed. Forgot to mention.

 

[Crunch]

I am not to proud to take advice on the matter.

I don't have a lot of experience dealing with insurance companies, but when someone hit my previous truck they tried the same thing. Obviously, it's in their interest to short change you. But from what you said, I'd say keep on working with them to get someone out there so you can go over the truck and support your position one upgrade at a time. There is little chance that you will get them up to what you think is fair, but you can settle for the best deal you are going to get, and demand that they let you keep the truck rather than turn it over to them if they total it. Then you will have whatever settlement they were willing to pay, and your truck, with which you can do whatever you want. You can fix it on your own, or part it out and pocket the money. My fantasy truck ending is that when the truck finally dies, I take the mighty Cummins and have it rebuilt and use it for a generator. That engine should be powerful enough to run a generator that provides electricity to several homes. So I'd say that on top of whatever settlement they offer, you demand that they let you keep the truck if they don't pay enough to fix it.

 

[Tuesdak]

They are just trying to close. USAA represents Military members and families.

It's Marketing, Period. Same applies as to every single insurance company out there. In other words Military: So What? (Other than it's harder to join em.) They do offer some better coverage on some things however NOT related to military status.

I am not to proud to take advice on the matter.

Consult with your attorney. This will get things moving faster and make you whole quicker. It's worth the price of their fee. Bluntly the $11 insult is just that. On your own you won't get any further.

Have you some estimates to fix it yet?

 

[3rdGen_to1stGen]

I don't have a lot of experience dealing with insurance companies, but when someone hit my previous truck they tried the same thing. Obviously, it's in their interest to short change you. But from what you said, I'd say keep on working with them to get someone out there so you can go over the truck and support your position one upgrade at a time. There is little chance that you will get them up to what you think is fair, but you can settle for the best deal you are going to get, and demand that they let you keep the truck rather than turn it over to them if they total it. Then you will have whatever settlement they were willing to pay, and your truck, with which you can do whatever you want. You can fix it on your own, or part it out and pocket the money. My fantasy truck ending is that when the truck finally dies, I take the mighty Cummins and have it rebuilt and use it for a generator. That engine should be powerful enough to run a generator that provides electricity to several homes. So I'd say that on top of whatever settlement they offer, you demand that they let you keep the truck if they don't pay enough to fix it.

Interesting Idea. I may go that route, I am just trying to figure out the pros and cons.

 

[User113]

You can also get an attorney involved...that often gets higher payouts.

 

[3rdGen_to1stGen]

It's Marketing, Period. Same applies as to every single insurance company out there. In other words Military: So What? (Other than it's harder to join em.) They do offer some better coverage on some things however NOT related to military status.



Consult with your attorney. This will get things moving faster and make you whole quicker. It's worth the price of their fee. Bluntly the $11 insult is just that. On your own you won't get any further.

Have you some estimates to fix it yet?

I understand that an insurance company is just that at the end of the day no matter who's name is on the wall and receiving money and not paying it out is the whole game. Everything else that USAA does is always so hassle free and you talk to real people that are...literate. I guess I just expected more. I am sure FL insurance brokers are having meetings right now to mitigate their own payouts after our double hurricane.
I am a Flight School DOM and our airfield was flooded. Many planes totaled or require Major repair which by FAA definition means a form is filed in the logbook and with the government that will haunt the plane for the rest of it's life. Engineering Techs from aircraft companies were out there approving repair methods etc...Additionally, anything that we could not elevate or relocate to our other location was under saltwater to include giant aircraft tugs, hardware cabinets that are Snap-On, tooling, materials, Flame Cabinets. We had a meeting recently about the games that even our commercial insurance companies were playing to try and not cover things entirely!
I am pretty sure insurance folks do not go to heaven. Suffice it to say dealing with them has always been frustrating.
How do you quantify a 20 year old truck that someone has owned (even named by my wife) and upgraded to make new and better than stock to include elective things that did not even need to be done in order to make it a new truck and just ignore all that.

Actual cash Value they call it: I understand. But it only exists for them. I cannot argue actual cash value to someone selling me a truck.
We will not recognize upgrades that are more than 12 months old. Ok here's one that is 13 months old for the superseded newer style rockers, head gasket, studs, lines, T-Steering Upgrade, Box-brace, ball-joints, front u's, front hubs, Fuel rims and other goodies coming to just under $10k total and something like half that in parts. Missed their arbitrary number by 30 days and they reveled in it. Not that I accept that an upgrade loses all value after 12 months.

I had though about lawyering up honestly. My experience with lawyers is they have charged me to engage in idle I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER-chat and love writing $500 letters so I was not sure if the ends would justify the means.

My thought process goes like this:

1-Waiting to hear back from Mr. Supervisor to let him know they are derelict for not sending someone out here and trying to close on me during a crisis. Gently expressing my mistrust and overall ability to properly value the truck or estimate the cost to repair. Give them a chance but ultimately tell them I will hire an adjuster that will do a better job of both and see what they say. I also need to know that the frame is straight as that changes things.

Question on this: Where do I even start looking for an independent adjuster who would ideally visit me and/or visit a shop that can check the frame?

2-Checking with a Lawyer. At this point I just do whatever they tell me. No questions about that.

3-If I can convince them not to total by saying I do not care about paint or if we find junk parts for the body because the entire truck was about to go to the paint shop Q1 2025 anyway and I can provide things at a discount, will they call off the dogs?

4-If they wont budge then I either strip it before the flatbed comes (and scuttle it out of spite maybe) I have most of the stock stuff in my garage...or I retain the salvage title and my driveway becomes an eBay Craiglist U-Pick for truck dudes. That may be weird. So My other though is find someone that may want to scrap or flip it and I use my payout on the repairs while they do most of the work (I work 6-6, 6 days week and need a project like this like a hole-in the head).

Qiestion: Finding someone like this? Stripping my truck before hand and posting on Craigslist or eBay or perhaps even here and on the Cummins keyboard warrior forum? (parts below) then of course selling the husk to a salvage yard.

5-Engine: Not a top end rebuild, but all the valves and springs and rockers and gasket and lines and wiring and the $1200 headstuds that has had nothing but Amsoil Diesel/Marine in it. As-is engines are up $7k and rebuilds are twice that. If only I could take on a project right now I might find an old 2500 Suburban you know? Or just take the body off and start making it the immortal truck I always intended to. But I am moving across the country soon and I work too much. Moving will be expensive because reasons.

6-Let it go, get a 2006-2007 5.9 Megacab, transfer what I can but start over: Like I said, fixing my house and moving will be expensive and I had the good vehicle so we just bought the Wife a 2019 Armada. Not bad, wish it had the Titan Diesel. These trucks are mid-teens and I do not have that burning a hole in my pocket or I would steal from my truck to equip one of these right now.

Issue: I know what went wrong with my 2004 when I bought it. Starting over being worth it right now versus just getting something to trade in when I move.

I have:
Edge CTS2 with EAS: 1 for EGT, 1 for Turbo timer, one Y-Harness for universal sensor (one plug still free), 1 for boost fuel pressure.
Single gauge door pillar with CTS2 mount designed to mount to it.
Smarty S06
Mag Hytec Trans Pan
ATS Rear Diff Cover
Diamond Eye Turbo-Back with MBRP tip that follows the line of the truck.
Custom Fabricated rear bumper, 5/16" 5x7" tube steel with 2x4" pieces to secure it to the truck. All bolt, no welds with backup lights.
Airdog FP-150
Banks Intake
AFE Adjustable Waste-Gate
On3 Performance Inter-cooler that looks like it is completely undamaged.
Mishimoto All Aluminum Radiator. Unfortunately no longer good.
Various Mishimoto silicone hoses and fittings
Carli Track Bar
LED Tail Lights
Bushwacker cargo bed rails and bully ringsx4.
2011 tailgate just because.
20" Fuel Rims. Never installed and still in box.
Various items that were going on the truck are still in boxes such as a brand new center dash radio/enviro console with a dash kit to accept and mount a double din stereo.
A double-din stereo.
Kickers for the rear doors.
LED Fog Lights never removed from box.
Extra key fobs, never removed or programmed.
The Head studs if they can be removed.
Smartliners front and back
Much more...I cannot recall everything right now but...it is a lot.

Would I be able to move this stuff on this site I wonder? Would the right body shop be interested in any of this and remove it for me?

 

[Turbo Terry]

We all take this risk when we modify our trucks . I spent a ton of money on my old 1999. Gave up the warranty very early etc. When you mod your truck to make it better you just really never get it back . I sold my 99 for 12.5 k three years ago. It’s really the first vechicle I ever did this to. I had the money and the time but you never get it back. I did enjoy doing it and improved the truck greatly . Then I got old. Both knees replaced hip cancer etc etc . I couldn’t work on it very good anymore. After 20 years old not many places would work on it anymore. Most places didnt understand my mods . Looking back I wouldn’t do it again but I had fun at the time.i had to make some hard choices also not as bad as yours but buying a new truck was the answer for me. My Indy services it once a year . I check things I can and drive it and enjoy it . These are just expensive trucks to own and drive. I’m staying stock and wouldn’t even consider a delete. Truck is powerful and smooth Very nice no issues in 30 k and three years. Good luck to you . I do know somewhat what your going threw but you will get passed it and move on.

 

[Crunch]

You can also get an attorney involved...that often gets higher payouts.

I definitely agree, but you have to balance the ups and downs. If an attorney can get you $5K more, but charges you $4500 to take the case, then you have to consider if it is worth your time and hassle for the money you end up with.

We all take this risk when we modify our trucks . I spent a ton of money on my old 1999. Gave up the warranty very early etc. When you mod your truck to make it better you just really never get it back .

That's why you negotiate the best deal you think you can get, then make them throw your vehicle into the deal. I'd also suggest doing a quick add up of what everything on the truck is worth if you spend the time to take it apart and part it out. Working engine? I'd say $4K minimum, and probably more. Tires and wheels? In very good condition I'd say $1500 is a good ballpark figure, providing the wheels are at least somewhat upgraded from the cheapies. Seats should get you $300 if they are the color the buyer is looking for. Spoiler alert: That color is probably taupe. Then there is the glass, suspension, exhaust system, fuel tank, bed (that's gotta be about a grand!), headlights, taillights, differential, all the add-ons and fancy upgrades, etc. I'm thinking that parted out you could add close to another $10K to your insurance payout. You just have to take the time to market it and either remove the parts yourself, or let the buyer do it. Of course, letting the buyer crawl around a wrecked truck can open up another legal drama.

 

[Grumpy8811]

I always said to myself one person's upgrade is another person's "so what".
I also learned a long time ago that attaching the term investment to any motor vehicle is a sure recipe to get hosed.
People do the same thing with houses, add a $50k pool, not understanding that 50k pool adds about 5k to the value of the house.
Same applies to vehicles. it has to have wheels, whether custom or stock. 5000 rims dont add 5000 to the value.
Rebuilding the engine doesn't count for nothing as you can't do much with it if it doesn't run.
New Radiator. same effect.
just the way it is..
at best it is a depreciating asset that you sunk money into for your own use.

in the end you get what you can get, and if it doesn't seem fair you have two choices
wait and hold out for more knowing it may be a long time coming
or take the money and run.

 

[crispyboy]

I have found that a clean stock vehicle that wasn't abused would bring the best money. I have always shy'd away from vehicles that have been modified. Most modifications don't have any real payback. Just useful to the person who made the modification.

 

[JR]

I'm sorry to be the one to say this but you'll lose your ass on a modified vehicle in every situation like this without prior appraisal. Some insurance companies offer custom vehicle endorsements at the cost of a healthy premium increase. Many items like your upgraded T steering, ball joints, track bar, etc are basic requirements of a vehicle and do not increase value. Your best bet of recovering as much of your money back as possible is to strip the valuables and sell them off individually. This is a slippery slope from a legal standpoint without buying the vehicle back.

 

[3rdGen_to1stGen]

Thanks. I understand what you are saying and I understand how insurance works (or doesn't work) but knowing what I know about what the current climate is with the hurricane loss mitigation training and the like, even on a bad day with insurance I am getting hosed. I am going to keep working with them. even if I can get them to move a little so I do not feel I am being robbed outright is all I am seeking. I am ok with eating the cost of some of what I put into it. Even the insurance company understands the distinction between upgrades and restoration of a 20 year old vehicle versus driving a 20 year old vehicle until the wheels fall off. They admitted as much. They are just in a hurry to close and even the supervisor admitted they were jumping the gun.

 

[Grumpy8811]

when a person has a heavily modified or custom vehicle, they usually need specialty insurance if they want to insure the vehicle properly. Too late for that now.