Split Axle

[Jeff Knight]

My new 02 truck doesn't have the axle disconnect on the front axle. The vaccum motor is not there. It must have a solid axle on the right hand side. Does anybody elses 02 not have this? I guess this front axle and rear end are turning all the time!! Let me know what you guys find. Thanks Jeff :--)

 

[jmeehan]

That would figure as they've done away with the axle disconnects on the Jeeps too. With no hubs or disconnects they took a 50 year step backward in technology.

 

[Jeff Knight]

It will be interesting to see if the 03 have something to disconnect the front axle. It would be to easy to come back out with lock out hubs. Just another thing DC got us for. Thanks for listening. Jeff

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Are you saying that in the front, you have just a regular solid axle like on a first gen, but without the locking/unlocking hubs?

 

[SS]

Some of the Jeep guys actually change from the disconnect style to the one-piece like you have for strength (and less to go wrong. ) Jeeps have been using this set-up for quite some time. I don't consider it a step backwards - I wish my stock CJ axles had been as strong as the new Wranglers (Warn took care of that problem. ) Heck, some early CJ's even had drive plates instead of hubs.



If you REALLY have to have the vacuum disconnect, offer to trade here - I'll bet you get some interest from hard-core 'wheelers. Sounds like work to swap axle, vacuum lines, etc. , etc. No reason to change unless you want a front mechanical locker or 2WD low. Just one guy's opinion.

 

[Jeff Knight]

Yes, That what it looks like. It's just the fact that the whole front end is turning all the time. a lot more wear on the parts. Jeff

 

[pcorssmit]

Really the only thing thats turning now that didn't before is the R&P and the driveshaft. Personally I would like to see auto hubs, with a manual option. The setup on mine is pretty crummy (for that matter, the whole axle is).



Pete

 

[SS]

Pete,



Do you mean you have a bad axle, or the overall design is flawed? To me, it's the best axle available - not IFS and better than a Dana 50 (Brand F just upgraded to Dana 60 this year. )



The Brand F auto hubs NEED the manual override because they don't always work!



Steve

 

[HillCountrykid]

In the CAD axles the gears and driveshaft turn all of the time. The drivers side hub is locked, so everything is turning. So the non-CAD design does'nt have more parts spinning, just may be a little harder to turn and have a different feel turning. It has to be stronger though. One piece tube and one piece axle shaft.



Brian

 

[Matt42]

No Axle Disconnect?

If I am reading this thread correctly, I get the impression that certain new 4 WD Rams do not have an axle disconnect. I am also further assuming that the front drive shaft will rotate as the truck moves. This is not a big deal. I wish mine were that way. It's gotta beat a Rube Goldberg linkage or vacuum axle engagement system.



There is a sliding gear, connected to the front drive shaft output yoke, in most transfer cases that idles on a shaft until the 4 WD is engaged, usually with the floor lever. (That's to allow for the different speeds of the front and rear axles. ) At that point, the idling gear slides (gently or doggedly) into mesh against a gear that rotates with the rear drive shaft, thus engaging the front drive shaft.



I've found that the average driver runs a greater risk of component damage from lack of lubrication due to nonuse of the front drive components when driving with hubs unlocked or the axle disconnected. In short, the components, including U joints, bearings, and ring-pinion gear set depend on a certain minimum amount of monthly use to keep the lubricants spread around. The owners manual will tell you to drive 5 or so miles monthly in 4 WD to accomplish that.



In the early days of 4 WD, locking and unlocking hubs were an option. Vehicles without them went a bazillion miles without problems. I was once assigned a "stripper" Jeep Cherokee without unlocking hubs. It had 75,000 miles on it when it was assigned to me, and was still using the original bearings and U joints. I gave it up (reluctantly) at 105,000 miles, still with the same original parts.



My wife's uncle was a mechanical engineer at Sandia Labs in the 60s and 70s. He had a Jeep FC-170 with which he towed a 30 foot Airstream trailer. (He was VERY adventurous. ) Being the data-conscious engineer-type, he kept copious records of everything, including fuel usage. On one cross-continent trip, one of the front Warn hubs wouldn't release fully. He had a time constraint, so he drove, towing, from Albuquerque to New York and back with the hubs locked, and the shift lever in 2 WD. On his return, he discovered that his fuel usage differed from unlocked hubs only marginally. The difference was within the variance expected due to differing driving conditions. I documented similar results with my 1976 Cherokee.



In a previous job, I "advised" certain law enforcement personnel on the use of 4 WD on patrol and in pursuit. I suggested that they epoxy their hubs locked, quoting the lubrication and fuel economy issues. There was also the small problem of getting out to manually lock hubs when beginning a pursuit, and the time lost doing so.

 

[Scot]

Originally posted by DodgeTorqueWagon

Pete,





The Brand F auto hubs NEED the manual override because they don't always work!



Steve

Neither do the old Warn's!

 

[Scot]

Re: No Axle Disconnect?

Originally posted by Matt Shumaker





My wife's uncle was a mechanical engineer at Sandia Labs in the 60s and 70s. He had a Jeep FC-170 with which he towed a 30 foot Airstream trailer. (He was VERY adventurous. ) Being the data-conscious engineer-type, he kept copious records of everything, including fuel usage. On one cross-continent trip, one of the front Warn hubs wouldn't release fully. He had a time constraint, so he drove, towing, from Albuquerque to New York and back with the hubs locked, and the shift lever in 2 WD. On his return, he discovered that his fuel usage differed from unlocked hubs only marginally. The difference was within the variance expected due to differing driving conditions. I documented similar results with my 1976 Cherokee.

It always seemed to me that the vehicles tended to wander rather badly when the hubs were locked at highway speed.

 

[Matt42]

Wanderin' Warns?

I also noticed the wandering, but never on a Jeep that I drove. Of the vehicles I drove, I recollect that the wandering was worst on a circa 1975 RamTurkey, which I didn't like at all. I also encountered it on a 1962 Suburban. I don't know if that was design or the fact it had 340,000 miles on it, and was loose in stays. In both cases, though, they wandered in or out of 4 WD, hubs locked or unlocked.



Oddly, the Cherokee assigned to me without locking hubs was so stable at highway speeds that I could let go of the wheel. My wife's uncle didn't report a wandering problem. (And I can't ask him anymore. ) The Law Enforcement types didn't complain about the wandering (and they would have!) on the circa 1982 Dodges they drove with locked hubs in 2 WD.



Jeep did their front leaf spring shackles backwards to everyone else. On the Jeeps, it was the front shackles that pivoted, not the rear. That called for eye bushing replacements at roughly 75K miles or 10 years. If the eye bushings got bad, the Jeeps would would wander BIG TIME, in 2 WD or 4 WD. I don't think that was related to the "locked hub wandering" phenomenon.



But you are right about the wandering. I suspect that the Quadra Link setup may have solved that problem. (And added a whole set of new ones!!) Matt

 

[tgbol]

If the slider in the front axle is not locked and the drive shaft is not turning, what is going on in the differential case? The left side spider is rotating with left wheel and the right side spider and stub shaft are rotating backwards!!! This would have to create heat and wear on the diff case. My 97 Cherokee doesn't have the CAD and I have not noticed any unusual pull or vibration. I have 75,000 miles on it. I had 253,000 on my 84 cherokee so I have a reference point.

 

[Chris N5CWM]

Here's a simple diagnosis..

If you can turn your driveshaft by hand and it

freely rotates, then your driveshaft is very

likely not turning as you drive down the road.

If you cannot turn it by hand, then it is either

engaged via one of the front axles or the transfer

case is in 4WD.

OR, it could work like tgbol described in his

post, that the axles are turning thru the spider

gears.

I've been wondering about this front axle system

myself the past couple years. Just haven't seen

any technical description on the system that

explains it yet. Could take the front diff cover

off, with the front wheels jacked up off the

ground and turn the drivetrain by hand to see

what is moving and what is not.



-Chris

 

[pcorssmit]

Originally posted by DodgeTorqueWagon

Pete,



Do you mean you have a bad axle, or the overall design is flawed? To me, it's the best axle available - not IFS and better than a Dana 50 (Brand F just upgraded to Dana 60 this year. )



The Brand F auto hubs NEED the manual override because they don't always work!



Steve

The new Ford axles aren't that great either. I'd like to see the old style D60s, ie king pins, locking hubs (not CAD), regular bearings, full floater, 35 spline inners (35 spline outers would be nice too, but weren't offered in the D60 front, although the ones out of a D70 will work). One thing I don't like about CAD is that the axle joints wear out much faster, due to constant use. Plus there are the issues of increased drag on only one side, which can be even worse if you have a traction aiding diff. No disconnect leaves the front shaft turning constantly, creating unnecesary wear on the CV joint.



With CAD, the driveshaft doesn't turn (much), the spider gears are constantly turning. I know my driveshaft doesn't turn in 2wd, since it vibrates at highway speed (in 4wd) due to the wonderful angle that Dodge setup the pinion at.



Pete

 

[Extreme1]

Originally posted by tgbol

The left side spider is rotating with left wheel and the right side spider and stub shaft are rotating backwards.

This is how it works. The driveshaft doesn't turn.

 

[Alaskaskiff]

Just a thought (scary, I know) but does the lack of the CAD coincide with the upgraded weight rating of 5200 for the front axle?



I would be ecstatic about no CAD and would immediately put the hub kit on that Dynatrac makes. My CAD has failed to work twice in what could have been critical situations. Will be putitng the dynatrac kit on this truck when $ permit



First time (after driving in slushy and then below freezing conditions) it failed to work when I was turning around on a sandy beach covered with 8 inches of snow.



The second time it wouldn't work I was pulling my boat on a -2 tide (truck/boat trailer) all below ramp and the water was coming in. Almost in deep doodoo that time.



I do NOT trust the CAD... ... .

 

[JHansen]

That stupid CAD is top of the list on things that I dislike about my truck (but it's a pretty short list ). I don't trust it-too many small plastic lines and moving parts for my liking. My '89 Cherokee has no CAD (Selec-Trac)- it has 300000 kilometers on it (over 180000 miles) with absolutely no parts replacement since I've owned it (154000 km). Nothing-not a wheel joint, seal-nothing! I would have jumped for joy to see that mine had no disconnect in it. .



Jason

 

[pcorssmit]

For those that don't trust the CAD, there is a cable actuated job called the 4x posilock (sp?) that replaces the vacuum stuff with a manual knob inside the cab. Doesn't really address my dislikes with the axle, but some people like 'em.



Pete