SRW vs DRW for towing

[mlange]

Local dealer called my husband with an offer that's hard for him to turn down but I have a few concerns. We pull a fifth-wheel weighing 10500 about 80% of the time. We have a totally stock 2000 2500 4x4 with 4:10 axle now and it does a great job BUT my husband wants the quab cab 1 ton. They have a 2006 quad cab 4x4 SRW 3:73 axle they really want to sell us. My concerns are the SRW and the 3:73 axle for towing. Oh yeah they are both autos and he will keep this one totally stock also. I'm thinking we should hold out for a dually with a 4:10. Any help or opinions are appreciated!!





Marla

 

[RustyJC]

Although a lot of people pull heavy 5th wheels with SRW 2500s and 3500s, the problem (assuming you're trying to stay within the manufacturer's ratings) is the 20% to 25% of the 5th wheel's weight that will be carried by the truck as pin weight. This 20% to 25% counts against the truck's GVWR, and a SRW truck (2500 or 3500) will almost always run out of GVWR before it runs out of GCWR.



That (from a numbers only perspective) is the dually's advantage - it can carry more pin weight due to its higher GVWR than the SRW trucks.



Although a 10500 lb 5th wheel may or may not fit within the ratings of a SRW 3500, are you sure that this is the last 5th wheel you'll be buying? The typical cycle is - bigger truck to handle the current RV, then a bigger RV, then a bigger truck and so on ad infinitum. On the RV forums, we always suggest to buy the truck for the next RV, not for the current one, but that's a decision only you can make.



If you have a realistic laden curb weight (LCW - the weight with driver, passengers, cargo, hitch, accessories, full fuel tank, etc. ) for the trucks you're considering (not the manufacturer's brochure data which is for a stripped base truck with only a 150 lb driver), you can use the following equations:



GCWR - LCW = maximum total weight of loaded trailer



GVWR - LCW = maximum hitch or pin weight of loaded trailer



Rusty

 

[Dieselnerd]

Towing 10,500 with 3:73 SRW should be no problem. As fifth wheels go, that is rather light. Since we all have a tendency to upgrade to heavier trailers the 3:73 could become an issue down the road. For various reasons I cannot use a dually and I tow a fifth wheel that has a GVW of 15,100 pounds with a SRW/4:10. The major concern with a fifth wheel and SRW is pin weight. I am very careful in balancing my load and keeping my pin weight below 2500#. You can only do this if you choose a trailer that has a lighter pin weight by design, doesn't have front water tanks, etc. My personal preference for towing has always been 4:10 so you can keep the engine in the sweet spot. These newer engines perform better slightly above 2000 RPM rather than below.



So, to sum it up, yes the truck your husband wants will work with a 10,500 trailer if that's the maximum you EVER plan to tow. Otherwise I'd hold out for a 4:10 and if your personal circumstances allow for a dually, I'd get that too.



On edit, I see Rusty beat me to the punch and has a similar answer...

 

[RustyJC]

I tow a fifth wheel with a SRW/4:10 that has a GVW of 15,100 pounds.

Is this your GVWR (listed on the driver's door jamb) or your trailer tow rating? I've never heard of any Dodge 3500 dually with a 15,100 lb GVWR, let alone a SRW truck.



The trailer tow rating, of course, is based on the brochure-fictitious published LCW for a stripper truck with only a 150 lb driver. Furthermore, it ignores GVWR limitations of the truck - until you get to the fine print at the bottom that states that none of the truck's ratings (i. e. , GCWR, GVWR, GAWRs) are to be exceeded. If one really wants to stay within the manufacturer's ratings, I'd highly recommend using the formulas above.



On Edit - could you be saying that 15,100 lbs is the weight of the trailer? The placement of the "... that has a GVW of 15,100 lbs. " right after your description of the truck may have me confused - like my old English teacher's favorite example of a misplaced prepositional phrase - "Steinway Grand Piano for sale by elderly widow with mahogany case and legs. "



Rusty

 

[Dieselnerd]

Sorry, neither Rusty, it's just poor grammer, 15,100 is the GVW of my trailer. Dry weight slightly over 11,000. My truck has the normal 9900# rating. I edited my previous post to make it more understandable. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[RustyJC]

Oh, OK. I almost broke my chin when it hit the floor with the original post - hey, howscum I don't have a 15,100 lb GVWR on my 3500 dually? :{ :-laf



Thanks and sorry for the misunderstanding!



Rusty

 

[Grizzly]

Welcome to TDR Maria. As you know by now this is a great site with much good advice. First off, I'd get the 3. 73, It will work fine with what you are doing. Second, I prefer the DRW. Once you get use to one you may not want to go back to SRW just because of it's stability. It maybe overkill for what you have, but you may upgrade to a heavier RV at a later time, but if you don't, the DRW is always safer with respect to less tendency to roll over.

 

[Silver600]

Is that 10500 lb weight an actual weight or what the RV manufacturer states? I found out the hard way that my 5th wheel weighed a lot more than what was stated. Loaded up I am overloading the rear axle of my SRW truck by 950 lbs so we decided to order a dually. The truck has no problem pulling it, with 4. 10's I can hold 60 mph in the Seirra's over I80 without excessive EGT's and my trailer weighs about 15000 lbs loaded. I think 3. 73 would be fine for a 10500 lb trailer but I would check the pin weight before making a decision between DRW and SRW.

 

[klenger]

You are a very wise woman. Hold out for the DRW with the 4. 10's with as much and as often as you tow. For me the SRW works fine, but I only tow 10k 20% of the time.

 

[mlange]

Thanks for all your info. 10500 is the weight of the trailer loaded and ready to go. Right now we weigh 17900 with the 2 of us plus the dog, all our gear, and the truck full of diesel. We plan on keeping this trailer until retirement (5-6 yrs) at which time we want to full time for a few years. He says if he decides he doesn't like the SRW, at that time we'll trade for a new trailer and truck and start out with a whole new setup. He has his heart set on it so I'll probably give in. Thanks again for all your input. You guys are great for helping.





Marla

 

[GerryDrake]

I vote for Dually, 4.10's

We switched from a SRW auto with taller gears to the current DRW w/4. 10's, and wouldn't consider going back on either count. The truck, with heavier bumpers, toolbox, and loaded for towing, is between 9800 and 10K depending on what all I have tossed in, and the trailer, loaded, is right about 13K. This allows us to have plenty of power for all the hills, and running at about 2100 rpm at just over 60mph. We have the 6 speed, and I would do that again, but if you are set on the auto, all the more reason to insist on the 4. 10's... . less strain on the drive train when pulling, and unless they have really really improved the autos (they always tell you this new one is bulletproof) it will last a lot longer with the 4. 10's.

 

[Sojourner]

JMO, but if one uses one's TV 80% of the time to tow heavy, then the only prudent thing to do is have dual rear wheels.



There are many times I would really like to have SRW for convenience in parking/handling/checking tire pressure/flat tire changin' and economy-wise with respect to tire replacement/rotation/balancing, etc. I think the additional stablity and increased margin of safety are well worth the extra expense and effort.



With respect to safety, generally with timely upkeep and maintenance on the TV, the weakest links in any tow rig are the tires in the rear where the trailer weight is.



One can engage in discussions of weight ratings of SRW vs. DRW until one is blue in the face, but the fact remains that the suspension on a dually is going to be loaded far beyond what it is rated for (i. e. factory rating with no mods to increase capacity such as airbags) - and it will definitely show - long before the combined weight rating of four tires is even approached (provided all tires are properly inflated in accordance with the tire manufacturer's specifications).



So what do you think is less prone to fail - a tire being run at 80% or more of its rated capacity, or a tire that is being run at 50% or less of its rated capacity? (and I'm being generous here)



I think the distinction here in this choice is there are those who take responsibility and accountabiltiy for themselves and their own actions towing with confidence and safety foremost in their mind and those who prefer to gamble hoping their insurance company will pick up their slack when things go south.



As for the axle ratio, that is largely a matter of personal preference with a CTD.

 

[blacksheep4x4]

I haul trailers for a living and all three of my trucks are srw/ 3. 73 gears and 6-spds. They tow just fine. as far as stability goes I believe a srw with a 33x12. 50 tire w/load range E feels way more stable than a dually. Especially when it's not loaded. To me duallys feel like they are all over the road constantly getting pulled into the ruts bigrigs wear into the road surfaces. I have pulled all types of trailers including the big Raptor toy haulers and 40' plus fifth wheels. No problems With over 200,000 miles logged on these trucks.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

If you are towing 10k LBS 80% of the time with an auto, GET 4. 10 FOR YOUR OWN SAKE!!!!

 

[dcoffman]

I've been pulling a 5er gvw 10100 for 8 years with my 98. 5 with 354 rear and never had a problem. Took it to Alaska and back to Va and I could stay with the 410's from 2 dodge's and 373 from 1 chevy,and 1 ford. I ave. 12. 5 towing and don't poke around either. Whenwe left for Alaska I stop at a close by truck stop and weighed in at 17300 CGVW. So your 373's should do great & that new truck has alot more get-her-done guts than mine.

 

[RustyJC]

If the original poster is trying to stay within ratings, then rear axle gearing (GCWR) and DRW (GVWR) do matter. If ratings don't matter to them, then they can use a Mazda B2300 if they so choose.



Rusty

 

[CWheeler1]

Marla,I drove a big rig for 20 years and have been RVing for 10. You want the DRW for sure, if for no other reason---SAFTY--if you blow a rear single at hiway speed an a curve and live to tell about it--you will get a DRW as soon as you get out of the hospital for sure!! caw

 

[tandersen]

CWheeler1 is right. We had a srw with a 3300# slide-in camper on board flat towing a Jeep CJ7 when the left rear tire blew. I thought from the smoke, debris and sound that the truck itself blew up. The rig went straight but I bought a dually (and a new pair of shorts).

 

[Grizzly]

as far as stability goes I believe a srw with a 33x12. 50 tire w/load range E feels way more stable than a dually. Especially when it's not loaded. To me duallys feel like they are all over the road constantly getting pulled into the ruts bigrigs wear into the road surfaces.



I completely disagree with what you are saying here. How can any SRW be more stable than a DRW? I have never heard such nonsense.

 

[tandersen]

Grizzly I agree with you. Also it's still one tire, if it blows hang on to your %$#!