Here I am

SRW vs DRW for towing

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What do you haul in your TOYHAULERS???

need 5th wheel towed from livingston tx to green bay wis

but don't call me stupid if don't do exactly as you do



I hope the point that came across was the thread started down hill into the DRW/SRW wars when the perp first uttered the "ignorant", a. k. a. "stupid", word because some folks didn't see it as the perp did. Things just got bhaaader and bhaaader from thence forth.



Unfortunately, there are those amongst us, such as moi, who oft times are given to childishness (does impetuousness sound more dignified?), and can't resist firing back with both barrels ;)
 
blacksheep4x4 said:
Grizzly said:
Your duals try to track with the rut in the road and is harder to get out of them ,because you have more tires to try and get out of them! Call it what you want, but I use what my experience has shown me to be best. I drive through all types of climates and terrains (try running a dually up a icy mountain pass) And yes one dual wheel can take out the one beside it. A wider single tire is more stable and is the reason big trucks are starting to run super singles. I have run both duals and singles and know what I am talking about and will not be critsized by someone who is ignorant and pulls a trailer once in awhile! I pull them five days a week every week!





First of all, I am not ignorant, second I know what I am talking about also having had years of experience, perhaps more then you have. Third, at this time I am not pulling a trailer, I have a large cab-over-camper. Forth, the reason big trucks are starting to use super singles is that they are more economical. In addition, if you were to take a survey, far more people on TDR would agree with me in saying that a DRW is more stable then a SRW, with or without super singles.
 
blacksheep4x4 said:
Grizzly said:
Your duals try to track with the rut in the road and is harder to get out of them ,because you have more tires to try and get out of them! Call it what you want, but I use what my experience has shown me to be best. I drive through all types of climates and terrains (try running a dually up a icy mountain pass) And yes one dual wheel can take out the one beside it. A wider single tire is more stable and is the reason big trucks are starting to run super singles. I have run both duals and singles and know what I am talking about and will not be critsized by someone who is ignorant and pulls a trailer once in awhile! I pull them five days a week every week!





Besides, your only 31 years old. How much experience can you have? Why, your still wet behind the ears. Go drive 15 more years, then we'll talk.
 
My dad is tougher than your dad! Come on guys calm down. I joined the TDR because of the informative discussions regarding the Dodge diesel truck. Lets keep it that way. You both have valid points on this SRW vs DRW. Time to move on.
 
If you guys want to duke it out, go over to rv.net and take on the Ford and Chevy guys on the tow vehicle forum. Over there, you would be rank amateurs.
 
mlange said:
Thanks guys for all your input! I won!! We are ordering a 1ton DRW with 4:10. Dealer gave us just as good a deal on it, cause he wants our 2000 with just over 45000 miles on it and has ALWAYS been very well taken care of. So thanks again for all your help.





Marla

Congratulations on your decision. I think you guys are going to be very happy with your purchase, as I have been. I think you'll like the 4. 10 gears because at 65mph you'll be turning 2,000 rpm, which "feels" just right going down the road. The truck will accelerate very nicely from that speed/rpm and is nicely into the power band, with speed, for any hills that come your way.
 
Grizzly said:
blacksheep4x4 said:
Besides, your only 31 years old. How much experience can you have? Why, your still wet behind the ears. Go drive 15 more years, then we'll talk.



Why make it personal? I should be able to post with out people needing to start an argument! I agree this thread has gone down hill and it went down hill the second the perp said anothers experiences were nonsense! Meaning stupid or not valid. If you have personal problem with me for what ever reason( I don't see how you could,I never met either of the two that are instigating this) save it for the PMs. Theres no need to show your childishness here on the thread, so why don't both of you start acting your age! Or are your lives really that dull and pitifull that you have nothing better to do? This thread needs to be closed!
 
Ol'TrailDog said:
I hope the point that came across was the thread started down hill into the DRW/SRW wars when the perp first uttered the "ignorant", a. k. a. "stupid", word because some folks didn't see it as the perp did. Things just got bhaaader and bhaaader from thence forth.



Unfortunately, there are those amongst us, such as moi, who oft times are given to childishness (does impetuousness sound more dignified?), and can't resist firing back with both barrels ;)



Wrong the thread went down hill when the real perp said somebody elses experiences were nonsense A. K. A. stupid and not valid!
 
I have only 5 years experience pulling anything of any weight, so I am also a bit wet behind the ears.



For 2 years, I had a 1 Ton Q/C SRW Short bed 2 WD 6-sp and still have the 98. 5 Dually Q/C Auto 4-wd.



I never had a blow out, but I will attest to stability. The dually is "Hands Down" considerably more stable than the SRW, even with Michelins. SRW kicked butt better at pulling, but get onto "those" Pennsylvania highways, and I thought the sway was scary, even with aftermarket Hellwig sway bar.



The dually eats up bad road and even rides better doing it. My trailer is in sig, with a King Pin weight of 3500 pounds. Levels off the dually nicely.



I miss the 03 SRW, as it rode & pulled better, but backing up was a ***** w/o 4-wd. Sunk the tires a few times, but the ride is flat out awesome empty.



To each their own!
 



Whew, there for a while I was feeling a little guilty over childishly flaming one of the posters. But thankfully I didn't mention the n word. :)



Marla, if you eed any more useful advice be sure to stop by the TDR and ask. As you can see we are full of it, so to speak. :-laf





Or maybe just full of ourselves :rolleyes: ;)
 
blacksheep4x4 said:
Grizzly said:
Why make it personal? I should be able to post with out people needing to start an argument! I agree this thread has gone down hill and it went down hill the second the perp said anothers experiences were nonsense! Meaning stupid or not valid. If you have personal problem with me for what ever reason( I don't see how you could,I never met either of the two that are instigating this) save it for the PMs. Theres no need to show your childishness here on the thread, so why don't both of you start acting your age! Or are your lives really that dull and pitifull that you have nothing better to do? This thread needs to be closed!





Can we shake hands and agree to disagree? You prefer SRW and I prefer DRW and let it be at that.
 
Grizzly said:
blacksheep4x4 said:
Can we shake hands and agree to disagree? You prefer SRW and I prefer DRW and let it be at that.



I am all for that. Never meant to get in ******* contest in the first place. Just thought that maybe you could have left the nonsense part out of your post ,and just left it at that you disagree. I would rather be friends than enimies.
 
Ol'TrailDog said:
Whew, there for a while I was feeling a little guilty over childishly flaming one of the posters.



I think admitting you're a flamer is something you ought to keep in the closet!

However if you want to stop the silliness I am ok with that. :D
 
blacksheep4x4 said:
Ol'TrailDog said:
Whew, there for a while I was feeling a little guilty over childishly flaming one of the posters.



I think admitting you're a flamer is something you ought to keep in the closet!

However if you want to stop the silliness I am ok with that. :D





OK. Let's all shake on it and go drink a beer.
 
How 'bout sticking to the articulable facts of the matter with respect to SRW vs. DRW applications without getting emotional?



The issue of 'stablility' was brought up -



Just the facts:



Basic physics -



The three factors affecting stability:

1) Increasing the mass increases stability

2) Lowering the center of gravity (CG) increases stability

3) Increasiing the area of the base increases stability



With DRW, does having two additional wheel/tire assemblies:

1) increase the mass? YES

2) lower the CG (due to increased mass in the rear of the truck at the lowest possible point)? YES

3) Increase the area of the base? YES



So clearly, and personal opinions aside, DRW configuration is inherently more stable than SRW. That is purely fact.



Now, regarding tire ratings and such:



As an example, the tires I have on my dually are LT235/85R16 rated 'Load Range E', which translates to 3042# max. wt. per tire in a SRW application and 2778# max. wt. per tire in a DRW application (load ratings are at max. inflation). There is a difference in the weight rating due to the fact that in a DRW configuration, if the sidewalls of the tires are rubbing on the load bearing side (i. e. the six o'clock position) there is a heat buildup that could likely cause failure of the tire(s) (i. e. blow-out). Therefore there is more tolerance for the bulging effect due to a heavy load in the SRW application, thus the higher weight rating in the SRW application. Generally, heat is what causes tires to fail before the end of their service life (faulty workmanship and/or material notwithstanding).



A little simple math:



Let's say the empty weight on the rear axle is roughly one metric ton, i. e. 2,200# (less the weight of the tires themselves). Please feel free to correct my assumption on the weight on the rear axle.



SRW w/ Load Range E tires: 3,042# x 2 = 6,084# max. wt. capacity on rear tire combination; 6,084# minus 2,200# = 3,884# max. load on SRW truck equipped with load range E tires



DRW w/ Load Range E tires: 2,778# x 4 = 11,112# max. wt. capacity on rear tire combination; 11,112# minus 2,200# = 8,912# max. load on DRW truck equipped with load range E tires



8,912# minus 3,884# = 5,028# (roughly, as an example)



A substantial difference. :eek:



Ok, let's give the SRW an advantage, e. g. Rickson 19. 5" tires w/ a load range G rating (3,970# per tire) -



3,970# x 2 = 7,940# max. wt. capacity on rear tire combination; 7,940# minus 2,200# = 5,740# max. load on SRW truck equipped with load range E tires



Now suppose one is towing heavy and the pin weight is 3,500# on a Ram 3500:



SRW: two load range E tires will be loaded approximately 90% of their wt. rating

SRW: two load range G tires will be loaded approximately 60% of their wt. rating

DRW: four load range E tires will be loaded approximately 40% of their wt. rating



Being that a heavier load generates more heat in a tire (again, heat is the #1 cause of blowouts), it would only follow that a tire that is loaded less than half of its wt. rating would be far less likely to blow out than one that is approaching 'redline'.



Generally, electrical cirucuits are designed and installed to run a load of no more than 85% of the rating for the wire and breaker or fuse for safety reasons. JMO, but I am convinced that tires should be kept within the same safety factor.



Is it possible one tire blowing out in a DRW application could result in the consequential blow-out of the one next to it? Certainly. But again, a tire being run at less than 50% of its rated capacity would be much less prone to blowing out than one being run at 90%, therefore, all other things being equal, the DRW application is still far safer for that one reason alone.



BTW, I grew up in the tire biz (3rd gen. ). Those 'super singles' have been around at least 35 years. We ran them (Goodyear Super Singles in 16. 5") on our one ton fleet body service trucks, we even had a truck or two with these in Goodyear military tread. Guess what - if these super singles haven't caught on in 35 years, they probably won't.
 
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One small point, a tire rating means it is safe at 100% of it's rated load. On a commercial truck, if you are weighed, you are legal as long as you don't exceed the tire or axle load rating. There is a large safety factor built into these trucks just because some people tend to overload them. Many trailers GVW is based on the maximum tire load rating. I guess my point is, a tire loaded to 90% -100% of its rating is no more dangerous than one loaded to 50% of its rating.
 
Dieselnerd said:
I guess my point is, a tire loaded to 90% -100% of its rating is no more dangerous than one loaded to 50% of its rating.
The experience of many 5th wheel owners would not bear this out. Many 5th wheels routinely operate at 90% to 95% of the load rating of the tires, and there have been many tire problems associated with load and the associated heat buildup causing tread separation. That's why many of us (and a few RV manufacturers) have switched to the cooler-running all-steel radial tires recommended by their manufacturers for trailer service - such as the E-rated Michelin XPS Rib and the G-rated Goodyear Unisteel G614 RST. Many fabric-construction radials (some versions of the Goodyear Marathon and various Carlisle tires come to mind) couldn't survive in this service at these loads.



The more load, the more heat and stress.



Rusty
 
I'm one of those that had that experience. I lost the tread on 3 out of 4 of the tires on my previous fifth wheel. That was a tire design problem and the tires were not capable of handling their rated load. I switched to Michelin XPS RIB and never had another problem. I also had a tread separation on my last truck and that happened at a very light load. The common factor was they were all Goodyears and it was a known problem. If it wasn't a known problem they wouldn't have given me free replacements. Goodyear later "Improved" the design by adding a nylon belt under the tread that was supposed to keep it from coming off. It didn't work either. When I purchased my latest fifth wheel I was disappointed to see it had Goodyear tires again. After examination I saw that they were the new G-rated Goodyear Unisteel G614 RST which is built just like the Michelin all steel so it put my mind at ease.



I agree, heavier load, more heat and stress but a tire is supposed to hold up as long as you don't exceed the load rating. The tire that doesn't do that is over rated.
 
Sojourner said:
How 'bout sticking to the articulable facts of the matter with respect to SRW vs. DRW applications without getting emotional?



The issue of 'stablility' was brought up -



Just the facts:







Who pulled your chain?
 
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