Steering...educate me.

[steved]

Wholly PITA...

I installed the Maxx Links and the Borgeson shaft... my center bolt holding the two halves of the OE shaft together sheared off. That created a bunch of heartache... had to take the shaft out wholesale, then cut it to get the firewall boot off.

The Borgeson did tighten the steering; but I checked, double checked, triple checked, and quadruple checked my OE shaft... there was not a single sign of play in it. What I feel is happening isn't the shaft itself causing the play, but looseness of the splined connections. I would guess that if you would take the OE shaft, and drill the couplers for set screws; they would tighten up as well.

Another thing of interest is that the instructions tell you to file a flat off the box splines (for the set screw). My box had a groove in the shaft that the set screw seated into, so I didn't file the flat.

I found my end links weren't really that bad at 245k, but I replaced them anyway. I was impressed, the end links on both my 94 and 99 rams failed within 75k miles.

 

[brods]

The ball joints are fine... they have been installed for a while, and I get no binding.



Perhaps you got a bad set?? The Cummins adds only a few hundred pounds over a gasser... its NOT significant.

The Cummins adds about 20% more front axle load compared to the hemi (aprox 700 lbs). The axle is rated for 5,200 lbs so that extra weight should not be a problem for the ball joints.

... ... . They will feel nice and smooth whith the truck jacked off the ground but under load NG. ... ... .

Exactly. I also got a bad set of moogs which caused slight wandering from day one. The wandering got progressively worse over the next 14K miles to the point where it became intolerable. A set of XRF lower ball joints made a night and day difference. Once the moogs were out of the truck it was easy to feel that they were bad. Maybe moog had a bad run since there are several posts across the different boards about them causing wandering. Those posts are what convinced me to change them out rather than to keep looking at other steering components. Moog tech support acknowledged they have had complaints in the diesel application.



Steved, hopefully the new parts solve your wandering issue, if not you may want to take another look at the lower ball joints.

 

[steved]

It got driven about 200 miles today, steering is just like new! No wandering, no steering play, just good tight and smooth steering!



The 08 fix will be later this summer!



I'm sticking by my original statement, not all Moogs are bad!

 

[Prairie Dog]

The Cummins adds about 20% more front axle load compared to the hemi (aprox 700 lbs). The axle is rated for 5,200 lbs so that extra weight should not be a problem for the ball joints.



Exactly. I also got a bad set of moogs which caused slight wandering from day one. The wandering got progressively worse over the next 14K miles to the point where it became intolerable. A set of XRF lower ball joints made a night and day difference. Once the moogs were out of the truck it was easy to feel that they were bad. Maybe moog had a bad run since there are several posts across the different boards about them causing wandering. Those posts are what convinced me to change them out rather than to keep looking at other steering components. Moog tech support acknowledged they have had complaints in the diesel application.



Steved, hopefully the new parts solve your wandering issue, if not you may want to take another look at the lower ball joints.

The articles I've read put the weight of the Hemi at 540lbs or about 400lbs less that the Cummins. Old BB V8's were 750lbs so it's hard to imagine a small block with so much aluminum weighing that much but I've been wrong before. Do you remember where you saw the 700 figure?

 

[steved]

The point is that even if there is a 500 pound difference, that's only 250 pounds per side... and I'm sure a 5vr with 1500 pounds of pin weight is adding more stress... for example.



The load on ball joints is dynamic, and the difference between a diesel and gasser is almost insignificant if the truck is actually used. As I've said before, even the coveted D60F was shipped with bad joints. I have well over 50k on my Moogs, and (now) have no steering issues. I would not hesitate to use them again.

 

[retirednak]

I agree with others about the '08 upgrade. Made a huge difference for my truck. The size difference with the parts are amazing. The old parts side by side with the new,makes the old look like something made for a 1/2 or smaller vehicle. My truck use to follow every rut,crack and frost heave. I was able to find better Internet prices,but shipping was way out of line to here in AK. The local stealers prices were 75-$175+ more. I printed out the price from one of the big Dodge Internet warehouses and took it down to the local stealership and was told that they would match printed prices with any other authorized Mopar stealership. When you do this,be sure and ask if they still offer core charge. I got back $118 or something like that. I never heard of core charges for suspension parts,especially for something that is supposed to now be obsolete. When it was all said and done,I had less then $350 into it. It was about an hour job. One thing that sucks with the new upgrade,it doesn't come with grease able parts,at least my weren't.

 

[JFought]

if you buy the upgrade from source auto, the drill snd install them for you. its real nice

yes it was worth the money!

 

[brods]

The articles I've read put the weight of the Hemi at 540lbs or about 400lbs less that the Cummins. Old BB V8's were 750lbs so it's hard to imagine a small block with so much aluminum weighing that much but I've been wrong before. Do you remember where you saw the 700 figure?

2004 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts Scroll down to the curb weight charts. It shows the total increased front axle weight from the IC, larger rad, the position of the engine relative to the front axle, etc.

The point is that even if there is a 500 pound difference, that's only 250 pounds per side... and I'm sure a 5vr with 1500 pounds of pin weight is adding more stress... for example.



The load on ball joints is dynamic, and the difference between a diesel and gasser is almost insignificant if the truck is actually used. As I've said before, even the coveted D60F was shipped with bad joints. I have well over 50k on my Moogs, and (now) have no steering issues. I would not hesitate to use them again.

That dynamic loading makes it worse. When figuring the forces acting on the joints the extra weight is multiplied by the acceleration of the parts. Even so, as you have said, it should still be within the ball joints capability. I'm glad you didn't have to change the joints. Moog has acknowledged there had been complaints, but gave no explanation of the cause. I can understand a bad production run if that is what it was, but without any explanation from Moog, I will not buy nor recommend their ball joints. YMMV

 

[steved]

The front axle is rated at 5200#s... both the CTD and gasser can load that axle to 5200#s. And therefore, the forces on that front axle are the same for each.

There are too many variables to simply state the failure of the ball joints is directly caused by an extra 400#s over the front axle.

Steering is MUCH improved at this point...

I just got to get my other tires/wheel on for the summer months, these Revos are fairly soft and cause wandering by themselves... my Pirelli's are a lot stiffer and are night and day in ride and steering.