Suncoast/ATS/DTT

[StakeMan]

Originally posted by Jetpilot

Correct,



I just let the DTT transmission do its thing. I do have the race TC which allows for lockup under full throttle. As for more details than this I would ask everyone interested to direct their questions to DTT as I am just the user not the builder.



Doug

Do you have the smart controller? What speed and RPM does it lockup at?

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Originally posted by Jetpilot

The DTT TC can hold at least 764 HP and 1570 lbs torque, this I know by experience.



Doug

And I thought I was doing good hauling 26,000 lbs on level 5x5.

 

[rrausch]

Well Jetpilot, your first post claims that the TC would hold 1570 Ft Lbs of Torque. You must know if this is in lockup or not. But I guess you don't want to say.



The stock TC clutch starts to slip, in lockup, at what... 550 Ft. Lbs or so? Is that about accurate? And we know the DDT TC Clutch only has about... what... 13 % more area than stock? (Please correct me if that 13% is wrong) So Jetpilot, if you are claiming to be running 1570 Ft. Lbs. of Torque in Lockup, then that means that that extra 13% of Clutch area is holding an additional 1000 Ft Lbs of Torque. Which is impossible.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

I'm starting to get a little confused here, How can a TC slip if it is not in lockup? That would be fluid coupling at 93% if it wasn't locked.

 

[Jetpilot]

rrausch

Well Jetpilot, your first post claims that the TC would hold 1570 Ft Lbs of Torque. You must know if this is in lockup or not. But I guess you don't want to say.

Ok give me a minute to respond. I am not trying to flame anyone here! I am just stating the facts and I have numerouse dyno runs on different dynos in front of lots of folks to prove it.



Yes my TC is in lockup. I meant that above when I said correct to Stakeman. I am sorry if you did not understand that post. Again I am also not going to debate how this transmission and TC do what they do but I will say they work.

The stock TC clutch starts to slip, in lockup, at what... 550 Ft. Lbs or so? Is that about accurate? And we know the DDT TC Clutch only has about... what... 13 % more area than stock? (Please correct me if that 13% is wrong) So Jetpilot, if you are claiming to be running 1570 Ft. Lbs. of Torque in Lockup, then that means that that extra 13% of Clutch area is holding an additional 1000 Ft Lbs of Torque. Which is impossible.

rrausch in your above post are you calling me a liar? It appears that you are..... I would be happy to work out some form of demonstration for you on my DTT transmission and TC if you do not believe it holds this amount of HP and Torque.

 

[rrausch]

Jetpilot, I believe you when you say you are running that much HP and Torque through the DDT-built Transmission, and I believe you when you say it works great for you. But claiming to run that much Torque in Lockup with a single TC clutch does not seem possible to me without some slippage. Slippage when locked, as we all know, will damage the TC clutches. So how does DTT get around this?



The ATS TripleLok has 3 times the surface area of the stock TC Clutch and will NOT slip in lockup. Period.

 

[jimk]

convertor

Originally posted by rrausch

Well Jetpilot, your first post claims that the TC would hold 1570 Ft Lbs of Torque. You must know if this is in lockup or not. But I guess you don't want to say.



The stock TC clutch starts to slip, in lockup, at what... 550 Ft. Lbs or so? Is that about accurate? And we know the DDT TC Clutch only has about... what... 13 % more area than stock? (Please correct me if that 13% is wrong) So Jetpilot, if you are claiming to be running 1570 Ft. Lbs. of Torque in Lockup, then that means that that extra 13% of Clutch area is holding an additional 1000 Ft Lbs of Torque. Which is impossible.

The only way I know is oil pressure and centrifugal force (rpm)

Jim

 

[Jetpilot]

jimk,



When I drag race I use 4 wheel drive. I launch at 15 lbs boost with little to no wheel spin. If I get my facts straight here the transmission is in fluid coupling during all of first gear (no lockup) I believe that the TC unlocks for the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts and then locks up again after the shift. Again I am NOT the builder, if you guys have technical questions on how they do what they do please direct the questions to DTT.



When I say it will hold the amount of HP and Torque that it does this is because I have well over a hundred dyno runs last year alone that show this # or very close to it. I race it the same way I dyno it. In fact I drive the truck to the track, race, and drive home.



The above statements are not directed as a put down to any other products. I am just stating what my experience has been with DTT.



Doug

 

[Jetpilot]

rrausch

Jetpilot, I believe you when you say you are running that much HP and Torque through the DDT-built Transmission, and I believe you when you say it works great for you. But claiming to run that much Torque in Lockup with a single TC clutch does not seem possible to me without some slippage. Slippage when locked, as we all know, will damage the TC clutches. So how does DTT get around this?

I have no idea how they do this. I just know it works.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Originally posted by rrausch



The ATS TripleLok has 3 times the surface area of the stock TC Clutch and will NOT slip in lockup. Period.

How does ATS have 3 time more surface area than stock. It still only applies to the cover of the TC right?

 

[Waterpete]

Wow this is a long thread!

I can't get too far into it as I don't have one of the popular TC's. I tow a combined weight of 21,300 lbs. I have a tripple disk converter and don't seem to experience any problems. I have had this converter for well over a year and I have 460 hp to the ground. What more could I ask for? I've towed to Alaska and back for the last four years!

There might be some better but I am happy with my Dunrite tripple disk, and by the way I paid for it!

 

[StakeMan]

Originally posted by Strick-9



For that to happen, the torque converter would have to temporarily unlock before each shift. That cannot happen with the ATS commander. There is no input to the controller to tell it when the transmission is going to shift from 1st to 2nd or 2nd-3rd and so on. All it does, is force the converter to lockup at a certain speed.

Originally posted by Jetpilot



If I get my facts straight here the transmission is in fluid coupling during all of first gear (no lockup) I believe that the TC unlocks for the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts and then locks up again after the shift.

So your saying that the Smart controller knows when the transmission is going to shift and unlocks the TCC?

 

[jimk]

convertor

Originally posted by Jetpilot

jimk,



When I drag race I use 4 wheel drive. I launch at 15 lbs boost with little to no wheel spin. If I get my facts straight here the transmission is in fluid coupling during all of first gear (no lockup) I believe that the TC unlocks for the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts and then locks up again after the shift. Again I am NOT the builder, if you guys have technical questions on how they do what they do please direct the questions to DTT.



When I say it will hold the amount of HP and Torque that it does this is because I have well over a hundred dyno runs last year alone that show this # or very close to it. I race it the same way I dyno it. In fact I drive the truck to the track, race, and drive home.



The above statements are not directed as a put down to any other products. I am just stating what my experience has been with DTT.



Doug

Thanks Doug for the reply, I have thought that the very tight converter might aid in helping hold the total amount of torque as to help reduce the large difference between fluid coupling and lock up. If you don't mind at what rpms do you lock up your converter when you dyno an put it to the wood? Thanks againg for the reply. I am only interested in learning not in starting a transmission war. jimk

 

[Jetpilot]

jimk,



I use a lockup switch for dyno runs. This allows me to ensure the TC stays locked during the run. Normally I will slowly accelerate through the gears, once in OD I let the TC lockup and then use the switch to hold it locked. I try to start my dyno runs at 1500 rpms.



Doug

 

[Snow man]

rrausch, While I have nowhere near the power of Jetpilot,(his truck is beyond incredible). I am running around 1000 ft lbs thru my DTT TC in Lockup,and there is no slippage. I do have the smart controller i can lock it in 2nd,and run it thru the 2-3 and 3-4 shift WOT locked,no slippage. Its no secret that DTT raises line pressures,and takes extensive measures to reduce internal leaks within the transmission. You may want to talk to Bill K if you want to know more,I built my own trans,with guidance from Bill K. If I remember right Diesel Dynamics also runs over 750hp thru the DTT TC locked with no slippage issues either. All my dyno runs are done in lockup ,and when drag racing the Tc locks in 3rd,and stays locked on the 3-4 shift thru the lights,. When I dyno'd my truck at Kauffmans, i had the mystery switch on and the 4th gr swtich on,and told them to start the run as if it were a standard at 1300,put it to the floor. There was no slippage. Do the math,3rd gear is going to slip before the lockup clutch will,you need not be a scientist to see this. The surface area and apply pressures in 3rd gear cannot match those in the TC,so guess what slips first in a well built trans that has all the leaks fixed?With the higher base and top end pressures DTT runs,along with the new 2nd servo,and the many other things that go into a DTT trans to reduce leakage,guess who's third gear (and entire trans) is stronger?

 

[CumminsAholic]

rrausch- Do you think the only thing DTT changes is the surface area of their converters? Seems to me that's what you're implying Quote. . "The stock TC clutch starts to slip, in lockup, at what... 550 Ft. Lbs or so? Is that about accurate? And we know the DDT TC Clutch only has about... what... 13 % more area than stock? (Please correct me if that 13% is wrong) So Jetpilot, if you are claiming to be running 1570 Ft. Lbs. of Torque in Lockup, then that means that that extra 13% of Clutch area is holding an additional 1000 Ft Lbs of Torque. Which is impossible. "..... I agree 13% more area alone wouldn't hold that much more power, but that's not the only thing that has been changed on the converter. Also the rest of the transmission is set up to use this converter. Just in case you say well then I'll put a DTT converter in "somebody's name here's truck" and it'll hold 750+hp? Maybe, probably not as the transmission is set up as a whole unit. Will and ATS transmission work with a stock converter? Probably, but not nearly as well as it would with their converter as their transmissions are set up to use their converters. I think that an ATS converter would perform at it's peak in a ATS transmission, not a DTT transmission or any other brand, and a DTT converter will preform better in a DTT transmission, not an ATS or any other brand. I'm sure you see what I'm saying. Anyways, DTT has at least 1 transmission with DTT torque converter in than makes over 800 hp and the converter doesn't slip when it's locked. Then have a few more, Doug being 1 of them, that are over 700 hp and a lot over 600 hp and they all hold. I don't believe that ATS has had a truck with over 800 hp try their transmission. Maybe they have and maybe their transmission held the power, if so I'd like to know about it. If not, hopefully they'll try it someday soon and post the results whether good or bad. Corey

 

[Jetpilot]

StakeMan,



I am probably wrong in my answer above. Maybe someone with more knowledge than I will chime in and explain the shift/lockup sequence. As I tell the mechanics at work, I don't make them or fix them, I just break them... ... Now with my truck I do a lot of the upgrades but when it comes to the transmission I leave it to someone who knows much more than I.



Earlier you asked if I use the smart controller, currently I am not using it with my setup.

 

[StakeMan]

Originally posted by Snow man

guess who's third gear (and entire trans) is stronger?

So you have owned and used all the different trannies on the market, or reverse engineered them all? Or are you just trying to bait someone into a retaliatory reply?

 

[CumminsAholic]

Just in case anyone didn't get what I was saying. The transmission is set up to run as a whole. It's more than just a converter with 13% more surface area that gets it to hold. The stator is changed the line pressures are changed, etc, etc... It's not 1 thing that makes it work, everything works together. ATS's trannys are set up as a whole too. If I put a ATS converter in a stock transmission, the converter may not slip, but something else probably will, where as if I get the whole transmission there shouldn't be a problem. Just wanted to make sure it was clear. Corey

 

[StakeMan]

Originally posted by Jetpilot

StakeMan,



I am probably wrong in my answer above. Maybe someone with more knowledge than I will chime in and explain the shift/lockup sequence. As I tell the mechanics at work, I don't make them or fix them, I just break them... ... Now with my truck I do a lot of the upgrades but when it comes to the transmission I leave it to someone who knows much more than I.



Earlier you asked if I use the smart controller, currently I am not using it with my setup.

Thanks for the reply.