Synthetic Oil

[JR]

No better? Not required, but I wouldn't say "No Better."

1) is better in your hot turbo after shut down even if you do the prescribed idling on cool down after towing heavy.

2) resists moisture and fuel dilution better.

3) lubes and flows better (is slipperier) at all temps.

4) Requires fewer thickeners and detergents/dispersants. (fewer total additives) because most syn has some cleaning properties and some thickening properties built into the actual oil molecules. Fewer additives = more lube per unit volume.

I may have omitted some benefits of syn. But these are what comes to mind.

Definitely worth it to me to invest an extra $20-$40 per oil change a couple (Or 3) of times per year.

There's that marketing strategy at play again

 

[ll4044]

I always was taught to pick a top notch brand of oil and stay with it forever in the life of a motor, be it gas or diesel. Granted this is my first diesel and am very pleased with the power and plan on staying with Cummins. Within a week of taking delivery, I went straight to Cummins parts for filters and asked about whether to use synthetic or conventional oil. They stated that synthetic was good but not really necessary. From seeing the OTR trucks go a million miles before needing overhauled on conventional oil, that is good enough for me. Decided to go with Shell Rotella 15-40 T4. Jmo

 

[Dasmoeturhead]

You'll be just fine with that oil, and recommended service intervals.

 

[6V92TA]

I think you have to buy a membership (and log in with that membership) with amsoil to get their good price. I have the membership because I buy their bypass filters. And I'm going to go with their new 20w 50 competition oil (dominator) probably soon. It's $30+ per gallon with my membership. Definitely better than what I'm using now.
My good friend and diesel tech 6v92 will laugh at me and call me names (for buying scamsoil), but I like to run a quality oil. I know it's not the manufacturer recommended viscosity..

I won't laugh at you , I've bought the stuff before. close co workers used to sell the ****e, was a vendor... and he sucked me in... but its a case of fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

in the end, its your money, your truck, and none of it makes a difference except in your head. its a placebo. LOL

 

[Cummins2014]

After running into an issue sourcing 5W40 Rotella at a few nearby wal-Marts, I bought some 5W40 Delo 400 LE.

It actually is a couple of bucks per gallon less expensive than the Rotella. Additionally.... I used less make-up oil between oil changes with the Delo in The Radio Flyer.

For the ~$7.00 per gallon ($21.00 per oil change increase) over dino oil, it is a decision I feel good about. White Lightning will get Delo 400 LE as well.

I had $41.00 in credits on Amazon, probably as good a reason as any that I made the decision to go to synthetic oil. It seems there are some that feel its a bit of a waste of money, some its the feel good thing like you.

I don't put enough miles on my truck every six months between oil changes to have a clue to what different brands of oil are doing. Anyway I will give this Valvoline Premium Blue a go. Maybe next time I will go Delo

 

[Cummins2014]

I won't laugh at you , I've bought the stuff before. close co workers used to sell the ****e, was a vendor... and he sucked me in... but its a case of fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

in the end, its your money, your truck, and none of it makes a difference except in your head. its a placebo. LOL

So true, made the same claim in so many words before. And now here I am trying synthetic, but, but, I only paid about $8.50 per gallon with my Amazon credits

But in all seriousness , all this synthetic claims as someone said is marketing strategy , and we buy in. Well at least this once for me. As you said fool me twice shame on me.

 

[gsbrockman]

I had $41.00 in credits on Amazon, probably as good a reason as any that I made the decision to go to synthetic oil. It seems there are some that feel its a bit of a waste of money, some its the feel good thing like you.

So.....reduction in oil consumption is simply a “feel good thing”????

Guess I need a new crack dealer.

 

[Newsa]

I had been using synthetic before reading this scientific study. And reading this did not deter me from spending a little more on synthetic.

http://www.businessinsider.com/aaa-study-explains-synthetic-oil-is-better-for-you-car-2017-7
The article does say that the benefit is more exaggerated in extreme condotions. But even on average, owners will see some benefit even when not in extreme conditions
I live in south fl. But I still saw extreme (sub zero) conditions when driving north

I realize that these engines run fine on conventional, but I would not agree with any argument which claims "Synthetic is NO BETTER". It is better. They are not the same. It is also likely true that some synthetics perform better than others. And there are some inexpensive ones that might outperform expensive ones.

Brockman says his truck uses less oil on synthetic than conventional. I didn't foreee that as a benefit, but could be another benefit? Mine doesn't use any oil. But I don't have the miles he has.

 

[kthaxton]

Agreed. It is a fact that synthetic is better than conventional oil. The only argument is whether it is worth it to you and whether you'll notice the difference without doing a side by side test. Most people won't notice a thing....but this doesn't mean it is not a better performing oil.

 

[Killgore]

I always adhered to the theory that you should stay with a particular brand, weight, etc., but, that would require everything to stay status quo, and unfortunately oil classifications change almost as often as, often as, well...you get the picture. I attended the 2013 TDR Rally in Columbus, IN, having a wonderful time and learning a lot, and subsequently left with the idea that I would stay with Valvoline Premium Blue because it had the Cummins "C" on the container if for no other reason. Some years later I finally got around to reading the articles in Issues #55 and 57 in which John Martin and Robert Patton discussed oil and evaluated twenty different samplings. Like the blind hog under the tree who finds the occasional acorn, I found that I had evidently been doing something right for many years, that is, if John and Robert know their business, which they do. Today, many changes have come down the track as far as lubricants, fuel, additives, and the list goes on; but, my old truck that has proven to be a trustworthy tow vehicle for an 18,000 lb. fifth-wheel, home on wheels, is still pulling its' heart out with 275,000 miles on the clock. Yes, Valvoline Premium Blue (because I live and travel where it's hot) is the only lubricant in the crankcase and Blackstone confirms on a regular basis that all is well.

 

[Cummins2014]

I always adhered to the theory that you should stay with a particular brand, weight, etc., but, that would require everything to stay status quo, and unfortunately oil classifications change almost as often as, often as, well...you get the picture. I attended the 2013 TDR Rally in Columbus, IN, having a wonderful time and learning a lot, and subsequently left with the idea that I would stay with Valvoline Premium Blue because it had the Cummins "C" on the container if for no other reason. Some years later I finally got around to reading the articles in Issues #55 and 57 in which John Martin and Robert Patton discussed oil and evaluated twenty different samplings. Like the blind hog under the tree who finds the occasional acorn, I found that I had evidently been doing something right for many years, that is, if John and Robert know their business, which they do. Today, many changes have come down the track as far as lubricants, fuel, additives, and the list goes on; but, my old truck that has proven to be a trustworthy tow vehicle for an 18,000 lb. fifth-wheel, home on wheels, is still pulling its' heart out with 275,000 miles on the clock. Yes, Valvoline Premium Blue (because I live and travel where it's hot) is the only lubricant in the crankcase and Blackstone confirms on a regular basis that all is well.

Thats what actually made the final decision for me on which brand of synthetic, Valvoline Premium Blue ,the Cummins C on the container. Its going to be hot when I set out for this summer trip, so just maybe I did that motor of mine a bit of a favor.

I have gave oil changes more thought in the past couple years, then I did in the previous 53 years of car or truck ownership, forums will do that to you . I was living in ignorant bliss with never an oil related issue.

 

[JR]

A few take aways on that AAA report.

5w20 SN was used as the test medium.

3 of the 5 conventional oils tested better than EVERY synthetic tested in both deposit formation tests.

2 of the tests were cold temperature related viscosity tests , coincidentally the only requirement for running synthetic oil according to Cummins.

I know many on here are critical of new oil categories but the new CK4 spec is truly the best to date. Just look at the new requirements above and beyond CJ4 spec.

New bosch shear stability test.
New Caterpillar engine areation test
New Mack T13 oil oxidation stability test
ISB valve train wear limits reduced
ISM filter plugging, sludge limits, and valve train wear limits reduced

These are all requirements for both conventional and synthetic oils.

Mobil Delvac tested their conventional 1300 against an un named synthetic CJ4 oil and outperformed the synthetic in every Category except the CCS (cold cranking simulator). Again, the only requirement for running synthetic According to Cummins.

The way I see it, there are really only two scenarios where the additional cost of synthetics can be justified. 1, Cold temps or 2, extended drain intervals. Synthetics accel in cold cranking pumpability. They also accel in reistence to thermal and oxidation breakdown OVER THE LONG TERM. UOA's have proven there is no tangible difference when following oem recomended intervals. Therefore, following OEM recommended intervals negates the latter advantage of synthetics.

This can easily be verified through UOA's.

 

[Newsa]

Agreed. It is a fact that synthetic is better than conventional oil. The only argument is whether it is worth it to you and whether you'll notice the difference without doing a side by side test. Most people won't notice a thing....but this doesn't mean it is not a better performing oil.

I haven't and probably wouldn't notice a difference. But I was expecting to see the milky white moisture-oil slime/film that some have seen in the CCV filter. I didn't see that. Maybe because the syn doesn't mix with moisture as readily as dino?

Or maybe not. But those who know, know syn is ever so slightly better. Not hugely better. And probably few would ever notice a difference with a time-tested design like the ISB or B series Cummins.

 

[josephc1]

Mobil Delvac 15/40 here $11.00 per gallon @ Wall Mart and a Fleetguard Stratapore filter @ Amazon. Gets dumped every six months with around 7K miles. <$50.00 per oil change and warranty compliant.

 

[6V92TA]

yall got me so excited with all this talk about Synthetic Motor Oil that when I was in Costco today I bought this. Delo 15W40 CK4 CES 20086 lube oil with patented IsoSyn technology... whatever IsoSyn technology is.. ?

 

[Newsa]

yall got me so excited with all this talk about Synthetic Motor Oil that when I was in Costco today I bought this. Delo 15W40 CK4 CES 20086 lube oil with patented IsoSyn technology... whatever IsoSyn technology is.. ?

It's probably like the techron they say is in their gasoline?

 

[JR]

That's a dang good price by any measure...almost as good as the $7 per gallon for Mobil Delvac anybody can get after a mail in rebate.

 

[6V92TA]

probably so.. as an aside to this topic, have any of you ever ventured into the true home of compulsive oil changers and rocket scientists... aka the BITOG forum.. check it out if you dare. it has something for every type of OCD imaginable. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/category/2/Lubrication_and_General_Automo or if you are heavy into oil analysis reports click here https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/25/1/Used_Oil_Analysis_-_Diesel

 

[Newsa]

A few take aways on that AAA report.

5w20 SN was used as the test medium.

3 of the 5 conventional oils tested better than EVERY synthetic tested in both deposit formation tests.

2 of the tests were cold temperature related viscosity tests , coincidentally the only requirement for running synthetic oil according to Cummins.

I know many on here are critical of new oil categories but the new CK4 spec is truly the best to date. Just look at the new requirements above and beyond CJ4 spec.

New bosch shear stability test.
New Caterpillar engine areation test
New Mack T13 oil oxidation stability test
ISB valve train wear limits reduced
ISM filter plugging, sludge limits, and valve train wear limits reduced

These are all requirements for both conventional and synthetic oils.

Mobil Delvac tested their conventional 1300 against an un named synthetic CJ4 oil and outperformed the synthetic in every Category except the CCS (cold cranking simulator). Again, the only requirement for running synthetic According to Cummins.

The way I see it, there are really only two scenarios where the additional cost of synthetics can be justified. 1, Cold temps or 2, extended drain intervals. Synthetics accel in cold cranking pumpability. They also accel in reistence to thermal and oxidation breakdown OVER THE LONG TERM. UOA's have proven there is no tangible difference when following oem recomended intervals. Therefore, following OEM recommended intervals negates the latter advantage of synthetics.

This can easily be verified through UOA's.

JR,

Please explain the 6th paragraph here.

If CK-4 is so much better, why was ford so hesitant to recommend their use?

http://www.schaefferoil.com/04-21-17-ford-04-21-17.html

 

[JR]

Ford never officially released a smoking gun as to their official reason, although judging by the extensiveness of this list, I'd say it's a fair assessment that they cried wolf. And we all know what happens when you do that too many times...one tends to lose credibility.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw35UoJzYAKvZ6xOLfGBRet5