The auto transmission and bindup!

[SlyBones]

JeffMic,



This thread has two points. One is for those of us who have been debating things for months and months on one forum or another to be able to keep doing so.



The other was to depart some information about 2-3 bindup shifts. From info in this thread it would seem that all our 47RH/E transmissions no matter who's have this problem to some extent. Most aftermarket builders have taken steps to reduce it and shorten the duration as best they can. And are continuing to improve it, but none have eliminated it completely. I believe that your BD transmission is just fine. Leave it alone and enjoy.

 

[Chipstien]

Originally posted by Edward

Stefan

Yes a select few people make changes to systems then spend hour’s redesigning and testing products to fix the problems their first change caused. They didn't do the proper initial testing. Those parts you mentioned have a purpose you say. According to your company sight the purpose of these parts is to stop internal leaks. If you crank the pressure up above what the system is designed for should leaks be a surprise? If you increase the pressure what once was seepage is now dripping, and what once was dripping is now squirting out in a steady stream. Your company brags about having the highest pressures in the business so why should internal leaks be a surprise to you. What’s happening sounds like the guy who goes out to the water pressure regulator at his home and jacks up the pressure. Then to his surprise he notices leaks in sink faucets, the hot water heater pop off and shower. So he decides the factory plumbing hardware needs some assistance with the weaknesses in their designs. So he spends hours designing and testing new seats, O-rings, and has custom made red and blue anodized gaskets. The factory may have weaknesses but internal leaks caused by someone cranking up the pressures is not one of them. It is not the factories fault someone didn’t do the proper initial testing. The bottom line remains these pretty blue and red parts were designed to fix a problem inherent to your companies design. No one else seems to need them. Are we expected to believe that the rest of the transmission builders out there who can get the power to the ground are wrong and the only company who needs these pretty parts is right?



Edward

[deleted out antagonistic comment directed at another user]



According to the afformentioned logic every manufacturer is a joke because they changed the design of the original internal combustion engine of the early 1900's. Why in the world would they change something over the years when the original worked so well. Oh yea, they didn't design it right the first time. What were they thinking when they didn't put electronic fuel injection and dual overhead cams on the original Ford.



While you sit there and try to justify that the factory system is just fine and that Company D is just correcting there own screw ups, I like 95 % of the people will say that Company D is simply staying ahead of the other transmission builders by constantly improving what is availiable and in turn making the future products better. Because whether you like it or not everything improves as technology gets better.



The problem is that some people want to turn around and say that they didn't do it right the first time.





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Post edited as noted

Robin

TDR Admin

03/20/03

 

[Chipstien]

Hey Merrick, what are you saying? You want a manual transmission but too lazy to depress the clutch. Just kidding buddy. I wonder how a manual VB would work being that 3rd and 4th and in the same position on the shifter. Does that mean it would go from 2nd to 4th unless the "OD OFF" button is on. Hmm, now you got me curious.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Slybones

In reference to the line pressures. Don Ramer posted on 07/09/02: 70psi Baseline, 120psi wot unlocked, 140psi wot locked. It is strange that their pressures are the same as my DTT transmission; with the exception of wot locked. Mine is set up to UNLOCK at wot. So what is the HIGH line pressures? Maybe I need a SNAP-VALVE transmission

 

[MCummings]

Originally posted by Chipstien

You want a manual transmission but too lazy to depress the clutch.

Yes,, and I don't have to worry about wearing out a clutch.



The Floor mounted ratchet shifter...

The handle would have two buttons, one for TCC lock-up, and the other to engage OD.



Good advice Chip,, I guess I am stepping in the middle of a debate.



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[Edward]

Re: Slybones

Originally posted by GLASMITHS

In reference to the line pressures. Don Ramer posted on 07/09/02: 70psi Baseline, 120psi wot unlocked, 140psi wot locked. It is strange that their pressures are the same as my DTT transmission; with the exception of wot locked. Mine is set up to UNLOCK at wot. So what is the HIGH line pressures? Maybe I need a SNAP-VALVE transmission

Glasmiths

Yep they increase the pressure some that is true. However they do not brag about having the highest line pressures in the industry on one hand and whine about internal leaks on the other. Just apply logic and think cause and effect. Is it a chicken and egg thing? Which came first? Was the leak there all the time or did the pressure cause the leak?



Edward

 

[BFC]

So if they jack up the line pressure too and don't address the leaks, that's makes them better?

 

[Edward]

Originally posted by BFC

So if they jack up the line pressure too and don't address the leaks, that's makes them better?

BFG no what makes them better is being able to raise the pressure enough to do the job without causing the leaks. You asked I answered.



Edward

 

[BFC]

Funny, the WOT pressure they posted is the same as mine. So if it cause leaks in mine, it's causing leaks in theirs. They all start with the 47RE as far as I know.



Glenn

 

[Chipstien]

[Deleted out antagonistic reference to another user]



Try qoting the whole post, not just the first and last sentence. If you don't know what I was trying to say then ask someone else.



Regardless, I am not assuming anything. You said that Bill made the servo to correct the problems that raising the line pressures caused yet company A is using almost as high of line pressure. So while Bill takes measures to decrease internal leakage, company A doesn't bother. So the end result is Company D is striving for a better product while company A leaves well enough alone.



Also, I could care less about which transmission you or anyone else decides to go with. It is your money and you have every right to spend it anyway you want. Why should I care? For all I know you drive a manual and post in transmission threads because you think it is fun.



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Post edited as noted.

Robin

TDR Admin

03/20/03

 

[Jetpilot]

Originally posted by Edward



Yep they increase the pressure some that is true. However they do not brag about having the highest line pressures in the industry on one hand and whine about internal leaks on the other.

Edward,



Just what company brags about having the highest line pressure in the industry and whines about internal leaks? My conclusion is that you are referring to DTT..... I have NEVER seen a post or heard them brag about having the highest line pressure in the industry. I also would not call it whining when someone brings a problem to light and has a fix for it. Personally I would like to know how a transmission company can raise line pressures to within a few pounds of another, do nothing different inside the transmission to address leakage but not have this problem.



Originally company A said they do not raise line pressure. Now we find out that they do. Not only is line pressure raised, it is raised to virtually the same level as competitor B. Now you say company A doesn't have internal leaks, how long before we hear company A state that they have leaks but that it doesn't matter?



Doug

 

[Edward]

Jetpiolet

originally stated by Jetpiolet.

I would like to know how a transmission company can raise line pressures to within a few pounds of another, do nothing different inside the transmission to address leakage but not have this problem.

Jetpiolet

I can answer your question in three words.

1. Skill

2. Craftsmanship

3. Knowledge



PS if you read the sight rules they do ask us to avoid using company names. I have chosen to honor that request.



Edward

 

[rrausch]

Edward, they also do it through cleanliness. I went to ATS in Denver last year and watched them build my trans. Most of the 2nd floor of the building is a "clean area" devoted to trans building. Most the greasy, dirty work is done down on the main floor area and then each trans is hoisted upstairs for rebuilding.

I was quite impressed with how thorough they are.

 

[tractorface]

Edward

This post did not start as a debate. It started as an informative post by a professional transmission guy. YOU turned it into a debate, in fact I have seen you do this on other websites as well. Please give some background information about yourself in particular your transmission expertise so we can decide if your opinions are worth reading. I would also like to see you start your own thread for transmission debate and leave this one to its original purpose.



[deleted out antagonistic material directed at another user. ]



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Post edited as noted.

Robin

TDR Admin

03/20/03

 

[MCummings]

Re: Re: Slybones

Originally posted by Edward

Was the leak there all the time or did the pressure cause the leak?

Um, the leak has been there all along, and higher line pressures only exaggerate it.



That's what I understand.



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[Snow man]

This thread has once again gone far astray from the topic at hand. Edward,since you are knowledgable enough to answer Jet Pilots question,you should be able to give us a solid answer on the original post on this thread,and tell us how Chris is wrong and your company is right about the "snap valve" shift valve.



[Deleted out antagonistic comment directed at another user. ]



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Post edited as noted.

Robin

TDR Admin

03/20/03

 

[GLASMITHS]

[Deleted out antagonistic material directed at another user. }



The fact of the internal leaks has been around, and discussed for a long time. Read all the information available; do a search, then post. You are trying to pic Chris's post apart with out all the other information available.



I believe Bill posted that the 18 NEW 47re s he had, most (more than half) were out of factory spec as far as the internal leaks goes. And to absolve your fears, he is not charging for the parts, except for retro, and no labor. Ain't that nice? Chris is going to service mine in the VERY near future, and while the vb is out he will install the new parts. along with some DD's



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Post edited as noted.

Robin

TDR Admin

03/20/03

 

[TDRadmin]

Thread Update

I have deleted numerous "editorial" (non technical) posts and for deleting numerous direct attacks at each other.



The "one liners" and "zingers" in this thread were not acceptable.



Note: I did not edit the content of any post. I only deleted comments (as noted) and deleted extraneous posts.



Keep it on topic, or we will have to close it.



Thank you.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[TKilgore]

PSI

Originally posted by Edward

BFG no what makes them better is being able to raise the pressure enough to do the job without causing the leaks. You asked I answered.



Edward

Can you please tell me, as an average, what pressure leaks begin? I am trying to understand all this stuff.



Thanks



Tom

 

[Edward]

Originally posted by TKilgore

Can you please tell me, as an average, what pressure leaks begin? I am trying to understand all this stuff.



Thanks



Tom

Tom where the leaks begin seems to depend on the company doing the rebuilding. Some companies replace parts apparently because they are having difficulty keeping pressures where they need to be. While others get functionality and transmission life without having to redesign some of the internal parts. Apparently these companies have resolved any pressure issues in their remanufacturing approach. I do not believe there is a magic number where all transmissions begin to leak. The various rebuilders take different approaches that produce different results. There are several fine companies out there with good and proven approaches to rebuilding these transmissions. No one rebuilder has all the right answers and no one rebuilder is the standard by which the rest are measured. Some rebuilders specialize in fighting internal leaks, talk openly about it and focus their energies there. While others talk about other aspects of the transmission where they focus their energies. Tom all of the rebuilders I have spoken to are willing to talk to people about their products. I recommend calling several of them and asking about internal leaks and how they approach them.



Edward