the death of the diesel pickup

[HBarlow]

Gary,



I had to stop my above message. My "boss" called me to eat supper.



I find it interesting that you think the hundreds of thousands of investors who provide the capital to enable the oil companies to explore, produce, transport, refine, and deliver oil to us consumers should be deprived of their profit (return on investment) and also the hundreds of thousands of employees of the oil companies and related industries should have their wages cut so you can have cheaper diesel fuel but you have not suggested that the federal, state, and local governments should have their "profits" (taxes) on the oil industry cut. I suspect the total federal, state, and local taxes on fuel amount to a larger sum than the profits made by oil companies and it is the oil companies who take the risk and do the work to deliver petroleum products to us, not the blowdried empty suits in DC or statehouses.



Why don't we just eliminate the federal, state, and local taxes to reduce the price of diesel fuel down to about $1. 50/gallon? How do you feel about that proposal?



Alternative energy is hype (read nonsense) produced by silly liberals and lying politicians to make some of the population feel better. If alternative fuel was possible, practical, and a viable solution the market would produce it because it would be in demand and profitable for developers.



Ethanol and bio-fuel is a perfect example. Bio fuel takes more energy to produce than it provides in return, is less efficient as a fuel, and raises the cost of food because our stupid politicians have converted corn from our dinner tables to our (your maybe, not mine) fuel tank. A dumb idea that does nothing more than waste resources and subsidize farmers.



Hybrid cars cost more to produce, to buy, and to operate over time due to the need to replace the expensive batteries they use. Another dumb idea driven by the government.



If alternative fuel was a reasonable solution everyone would already be using solar panels on their roofs, windmills in their backyards, and driving a Toyota Prius.



I think I'll go out and crank up my Dodge and drive down to the local Flying J and fill up with diesel fuel. My wife and I just returned home from an RV vacation to Nashville, TN and then on to Jacksonville, FL for her to see a Texas Tech football game in the Gatorbowl. I need to refill my tanks with some more of that $3. 50/gallon diesel.



Harvey

 

[HBarlow]

You seem to need reading comprehension tutoring - here's what I said in regards to Eminent Domain:







As I said, that was merely illustrating that we already DO have legal options in some relatively similar situations - :-laf



As to THIS part:







I wasn't referring to a specific method, only observing that the current "Rich getting richer, and poor getting poorer" needs to STOP! The only actual suggestion I have made so far, is the tax/profit application to alternative - don't try to put words or meanings into my mouth - I think my basic criticisms and points are pretty clear to any who read them with an open mind - and WITHOUT any personal slants towards oil companies - or financilal ties to them...







Well lessee - in spite of complaints as to USPS, no one yet has stepped up in private enterprise to do it better - or cheaper - at the national level.



Our various military forces seem to get the job done - seen any private enterprise warriors on a large scale at work for us in Iraq - or other international hotspots - and willing/able to do it cheaper or better?



Yeah some of us like to work our mouths about how government screws up everything they do (it's sort of a national pastime for some!) - but there are plenty of cases where they are the only game in town - and NO ONE is stepping up to compete with them...

Gary,



UPS, FEDEX, and other smaller companies have taken away a huge part of your beloved USPS already and may eventually take it all away so that is not a good example.



I spent close to 30 years in the Navy. The military is not generally considered "the government" when discussing the government vs. the private sector but if you want to call it that I will agree that the armed forces are very well run and very effective at performing their mission.



I live in Texas but have no connection whatsoever to the oil companies. I don't work for them directly or indirectly and as far as I know don't own stock in them. However, I don't blame them for the price of crude oil coming out of the sands of the middle east and don't mind seeing the oil industry and its hundreds of thousands of investors and employees earn a return on their money and effort. That is what made this a great nation.



Gary, you sound like you're getting a little angry. Most liberals get angry and start sputtering and backpedaling when confronted by arguments they can't overcome with facts or logic. You should consider enrolling in a couple of economics classes at your nearest college to help you understand.



Harvey

 

[rbattelle]

and the supporting theory that ALL the government controls is screwed up and evil...

I was going to reply "name one program that got better as a result of government intervention", but HBarlow beat me to it.

but there are plenty of cases where they are the only game in town - and NO ONE is stepping up to compete with them...

Usually there are 2 reasons for this: anti-competition laws in place to protect the government monopoly (USPS is an example - your mailbox doesn't belong to you), or a matter specifically delegated to the federal government by the constitution (military, for example). [Would it even be "legal" for, say, 500,000 of us to form an "army" on our own and go conquer Canada?]

But perhaps it's time to stop ASKING, or wishing, and start FORCING!

So if I'm selling my cereal for $100/box and a majority of Americans decide that's too much money (even though my cereal is flying off the shelves), you have the right to force me to cut my prices?



I'd probably take my business elsewhere.



I'm not an oil company supporter, per se, rather I'm a big supporter of free markets.



Gary, I get your point - fuel isn't a "luxury" item. It's a necessity in today's world. You're right. I simply disagree that we should use the government to control it.



Ryan

 

[tgordon]

Your right Gary, HBarlow was forced to take his truck and drive to those games, people are forced to buy their large houses 40+ miles from where they work and drive there every day rather than living closer. And if Ememinant Domain is so perfect, how did a good neighborhood get deemed "Blighted" and then turned over to a private developer because his shopping center on the coast "Would benefit the masses at the cost of the few"



Which study are you refering to that it requires more energy to produce biofuels than are harvested from them? Brazil seems to be doing a darn good job IMHO.



You wan tselection and free enterprise, start your own refinary. Myself along with several others are not going to stop you. Several farmers pooled their money together because they belive ethanol can compete with gasoline and efectivly built their own refinary to produce their own fuel from their crops.



Rbattle, if you can get others to purchase your cereal for $100/box, I will do my best to undercut you. Free economy at it's best folks.

 

[Dl5treez]

Rbattle, if you can get others to purchase your cereal for $100/box, I will do my best to undercut you. Free economy at it's best folks.

Or, instead of losing possible profit, sell your's for the same exact price and then people can choose which one of the stores has the cutest cashier and shop there.





I'll gladly pay the money for the fuel if I can rest assured that the "sudden supply shortages", "unexpected demand", and the other "oh heck now we gotta raise the price because of... " issues are in fact legitimate.



First it was the war, then it was the hurricane, then it was yet another fire, then it was the BP Alaskan pipeline debacle... ... .



Oil industry personnel have stated before on these boards that the low fuel prices through the 1980's and into the 1990's contributed to a shrinking bottom line which inhibited the oil industry's ability as a whole to make crucial infrastructure upgrades which now are contributing to the failures (fires, leaks, etc) that are, or at least at one time in the recent past, were, a major part of the supply/production problem.



However, seeing as the net profit of the oil industry is reaching new highs almost daily, that leads myself and other human beings who think with even a slight rational of common sense that either 1) the infrastructure is fine and doesn't need to be upgraded--which pretty much negates one of the industry's largest "excuses" for the supply issue, or 2) the infrastructure is a huge pile of poo but the powers-that-be would rather make triple OT bank off the consumers knowing full well if their systems can't keep up, the profits will continue to roll in barrel by barrel...



... . which leads me back to my original opinion that the oil industry is one of the few, the very very few, industries on this planet who can benefit from their own failures.

 

[SNiebaum]

Which study are you refering to that it requires more energy to produce biofuels than are harvested from them? Brazil seems to be doing a darn good job IMHO.

this is probably the study that is being referenced... Scientist opposes ethanol

Brazil makes ethanol from sugar cane and really isn't a suitable model for comparison...
Ethanol from Brazil and the USA | EnergyBulletin.net | Peak Oil News Clearinghouse

a few things that must be taken into consideration when dealing with corn based ethanol production in the US is the amount of external fuel(fossil) inputs that must be used to even get that corn from seed to harvest, the external fuel(typical fossil) inputs to convert that corn into ethanol(the process requires a heat source) and with the amount of fuel consumption in this country, ethanol, specifically from corn, is not sustainable. We don't have enough land to grow enough corn to produce enough ethanol to replace gasoline all while still growing enough corn for food supplies(for human consumption and for animal feed) and not diverting land use from other crops(wheat, soybeans, milo, etc... . )

the logical thing to do would be import cane based ethanol from tropical countries but then we're zero steps closer to energy independence...

 

[RJMurphy]

I'm a trader!!



I sold my previous 99 3500 QC Cummins Ram after a "FEW" problems... 3 Lift pumps, Injector pump, and the straw that broke the camels back was the ventillated "53" block. I bought the truck with 105,000 miles from the original owner in '04 for 11,500. 00 (Very good price for a babied truck IMHO). It came with stacks of documentation, serviced by the local Cummins/Onan distributor from day one, never towed anything more than a 18' Ski boat, and had a cab high shell sice day one and only hauled plywood and lumber (OE was a Carpenter, and bought the duallie because he did not like the look of the QC LB 2500 too long and skinny I guess) Anyway, installed a FP gauge when I started surfing the Diesel webs and found 0PSI from the lift pump @ 111K miles. @ 135K miles the Injector pump died 100 miles east of Limon Colorado (middle of NOWHERE!! Towing a 53 Willys wagon project I picked up) Replaced it and got it back home (2400. 00 what else could I do?) @ 140K miles lift pump # 1 had 3PSI at idle LP # 2 lasted 500 miles!! Well @ 160K started smelling anti freeze, you betcha the 53 struck hard:{ I rebuilt the shortblock with a 1st gen block, and sold the truck for 15,000. 00. While looking for a QCSB 4x4 that would bettr suit my needs, I found a 90K mile V10 Sport for 6500. 00 (less than the repair bills on the Cummins). I rebuilt the trans @ 105K miles because I wanted to, it was still working fine, but I added a performance converter (wow are they cheap for gassers!) and a trans go shift kit. I also added a cold air intake and free flowing exhaust while gutting the cats. It is definately NO Cummins, but it tows my project cars VERY well, Gets 12 MPG loaded, and 14 MPG empty. With Diesel now . 60 Cents higher than gas around here I am very happy with my choice. .

 

[brods]

murfman, better run for cover, lol.



It is amusing to see people just whine and complain like cheap fuel is a god given right. No one is happy about the increased prices. The really scary part is how so many people can get blinded by emotions and just start grabbing at the first alternative that comes along. Just look how our politicians have latched on to ethanol from corn!!!



It is good to finally see some media attention exposing the folly of corn ethanol, its been long overdue. Making fuel from corn is stupid. Making fuel from any food source is stupid. Making fuel from waste by-products or from plants that will not compete with food crops for water or acreage is the only way that makes sense.



Hopefully the government will stop supporting specific products, like the looser corn ethanol, and give subsidies to spur development in all alternative fuels and then let the most efficient ones survive.



Lets also hope the GM partnership to make cellulosic ethanol is successful, unfortunately growing bugs to produce ethanol in a petri dish does not simply scale up to a production plant producing millions of gallons! The partner thinks they have the answers, but does not even have a pilot plant operating yet, let alone a full scale production plant. Plenty of people have special bugs, but to date no one has a system proven to work at full scale production levels.



Right now there are production plants making biodiesel from animal fats. There are efforts to make bio from aalge and even manure. As long as the feedstock is not food and the process has a positive net energy balance biodiesel may be a good thing. Iirc there are like 160+ biodiesel plants either in operation or various stages of construction right now.



So there is competition springing up, but only because of government subsidies. There is still not a viable alternative to oil. One could even make a case that fuel is not overpriced, if anything it has been underpriced for a very long time. Man I hated saying that. And given a choice between shortages like in the 70's or higher fuel prices, I’ll take higher prices every time.



The unfortunate truth is even if some of these alternative fuels are successful, it will be very hard to beat oil as a fuel source. Barring some wild scientific breakthrough it is likely that the era of dirt cheap fuel gone forever.

 

[EEdmondson]

So there is competition springing up, but only because of government subsidies.

You think oil isn't subsidized? How much are we spending in Iraq? Too bad that $$ isn't going toward alternative energy research. Of course that money is borrowed and wouldn't be available for research.



Good post, brods.

 

[SNiebaum]

Internal EU report casts doubts on its biofuel strategy

 

[DCreed]

I'll be interested to see what happens when (ALL candidates say we ARE leaving Iraq) the stockpiled war reserves that are contributing to this price spike are released back to the market. And I'll bet my truck it's convenient timing to kill any econo-box sales proposal like the last electric cars. As much as I hate to say this, I hope fuel gets expensive enough that it does spur REAL competition and the next generation of buyers has an opportunity to purchase eco-friendly vehicles and we(as a united nation) can focus on GIVING these third world countries the technology to produce the power and goods they need without the pollution of current industrialization. but not likely ,we're too caught up in me-ism, after all he who dies with the most toys wins, right? So ask yourself... What legacy are YOU working on?

 

[HBarlow]

murfman, better run for cover, lol. It is amusing to see people just whine and complain like cheap fuel is a god given right. No one is happy about the increased prices. The really scary part is how so many people can get blinded by emotions and just start grabbing at the first alternative that comes along. Just look how our politicians have latched on to ethanol from corn!!!It is good to finally see some media attention exposing the folly of corn ethanol, its been long overdue. Making fuel from corn is stupid. Making fuel from any food source is stupid. Making fuel from waste by-products or from plants that will not compete with food crops for water or acreage is the only way that makes sense. Hopefully the government will stop supporting specific products, like the looser corn ethanol, and give subsidies to spur development in all alternative fuels and then let the most efficient ones survive.

Brods:



A great post. I couldn't agree more.



Harvey

 

[rbattelle]

we(as a united nation) can focus on GIVING these third world countries the technology to produce the power and goods they need without the pollution of current industrialization.

I hope we never do this. But I know we will.



Ryan

 

[HBarlow]

I find it amazing, sometimes disappointing, even frustrating how some of our members, guys who share my love of Cummins-powered Dodge Ram trucks, wear funny little aluminum foil hats and see conspiracies in every event that occurs.
I am troubled by the number of times that I read posts by fellow Americans who seem to hate our great country and apparently do not understand that the free market creates the jobs and the products we enjoy in our comfortable lives.
Some seem to hate the free enterprise system that created the most wealthy nation in human history and the greatest standard of living ever known.
I am deeply disappointed when I read posts by some who don't want to defend or country and way of life, want to kill the greatness of our nation by restricting free enterprise and turning our country into a socialist worker's paradise, and blame America for everything wrong in the world. My friends, I spent almost 30 years in the Navy.
I have traveled the globe.
Not as a wealthy tourist but as a sailor.
I have seen much of the rest of the world.
I have seen the standard of living of other countries and I don't want it.
I understand and appreciate the great country I was privileged to have been born in and to serve in its armed services.
I don't want the socialism that destroys initiative and restricts individual freedom. We don't owe the rest of the world squat.
We are not responsible for the misery of the third world or the exagerated problems of pollution caused by industrialization.
Americans have produced most of the great inventions and great products that the world enjoys.
We have given freedom and democracy to many nations including Germany, France, Belgium, Japan, the Republic of the Philippines, indirectly the former Soviet satellite nations, Kuwait, Iraq, and others.



I am a proud American.
I do not accept blame for all that ails the world and I am proud to hold my head up and proclaim to the world I am an American.
If the world doesn't like it the entire world can get in line behind me to kiss the most rear part of my body. Sorry for the rant.



Harvey

 

[DCreed]

Harvey,

Thank you for setting us straight! We seem to have forgotten that America has single handedly solved all the worlds problems. This long sustained war has brought much needed prosperity to our country, heck fuel has never been cheaper! and the air WE ALL breath has never been cleaner! As we all know the government has solved our pollution problems and ended hazardous waste disposal. Not to mention the american dollar this society worships has never been stronger. It's a good thing we never helped the rest of the world, yeah to heck with them!! it's not like we have to share this planet our nation is attached to, right?!?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Harvey,

Thank you for setting us straight! We seem to have forgotten that America has single handedly solved all the worlds problems. This long sustained war has brought much needed prosperity to our country, heck fuel has never been cheaper! and the air WE ALL breath has never been cleaner! As we all know the government has solved our pollution problems and ended hazardous waste disposal. Not to mention the american dollar this society worships has never been stronger. It's a good thing we never helped the rest of the world, yeah to heck with them!! it's not like we have to share this planet our nation is attached to, right?!?

Sarcasm at it's best - my kind of guy! :-laf:-laf



And yeah, I was in the military too- 50 years ago - and the world then was LOTS different than it is today - we were still actually WELCOME in most countries of the world - but that was before our domestic "robber Barons" wearing the uniform of "Capitalism at it's BEST" began exploiting foreign countries their resources and their citizens - eventually turning that same exploitation upon the "folks back home", US!



The world has changed greatly in the last decades - so has this nation and our society. What was envisioned in regards to "Free Enterprise" and beneficial Capitalism at the dawn of our country is NOT what it has evolved into, and we are living with today - many of our own society suffer under it and hate it - just as many in foreign countries hate us FOR it. It simply doesn't WORK any more as it has evolved and currently exists, and will eventually destroy our nation, and US with it!



But yeah, lets whistle and cheer, sing the "Star Spangled Banner", and then line up worshipfully for more of the same...



AFTER all, look at what it's done for our country so far... :{

 

[rbattelle]

I suppose it was inevitable this would turn political.

What was envisioned in regards to "Free Enterprise" and beneficial Capitalism at the dawn of our country is NOT what it has evolved into, and we are living with today

This is very true - what was supposed to be a "free enterprise" system has gradually deteriorated into "welfare state".

Americans who... apparently do not understand that the free market creates the jobs and the products we enjoy in our comfortable lives. Some seem to hate the free enterprise system that created the most wealthy nation in human history and the greatest standard of living ever known.

Amen to that.



The problem with a free market society is there are winners and there are - gasp! - losers. "Life is not fair" isn't something taught in school anymore. Now they teach "everyone wins".



Look, we all love this country and want what's best for it. Lots of people have different opinions of what's "best".



The debate over whose opinion is "right" has waged since the dawn of time.



Ryan

 

[Wiredawg]

Wow, This thread has really gone through the roof with conspiracies and talking down our country. I just have to say today, yesterday and tomorrow, we are, were and will be the greatest nation on earth. Period!



I spent 30 years in the AF and been all over the world and I can tell you, on our very worst day, we have a better standard of living, better legal system and more opportunities than anywhere else in the world.



Yeah, the price of fuel is high and I'd rather pay less, but my standard of living and quality of life is the best it has ever been. You all should have been in Iceland in in 1982 paying $3. 25/gal for 80 octane crap. Or in Germany in 1997 paying $1. 33/ liter (less than a quart). I have family that lives in Germany and they have always had a much lower quality of life and have paid 3 to 4 times what we pay for fuel. They are taxed to death. They just barely get by. Want cheap fuel... go to Saudi Arabia... premium was 35 cents a gallon. Price of fuel ain't worth living there.



I served so we can all share our opinions in an open society without fear of retribution. Although I don't share everyone's opinions about conspiracies on the price of fuel, and how we've become a socialist nation or welfare nation, but I do respect your right to express it. Just remember this: All of you should thank God every day you were born here or ended up here, because there are very definetly worse places to live.



Now, back on the subject, the price of fuel in the US was always way cheaper than most of the rest of the world and it still is today. I always wondered when it would catch up with us, and I have to admit, I didn't think it would be this soon or this fast. I truly believe world demand has caused prices to rise, especially China.



I'll just end by say God bless America and free enterprise.



Wiredawg aka Chief Master Sergeant (retired) Ron Prothro

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I spent 30 years in the AF and been all over the world and I can tell you, on our very worst day, we have a better standard of living, better legal system and more opportunities than anywhere else in the world.

You musta MISSED the news blurb from LAST WEEK, that in addition to the Euro passing the dollar in value, England has now passed the standard of living of the USA, anyone thinking the USA will "Always be number ONE" is blind to reality, and living in the PAST!



Wake up, and smell the coffee - or is that just our country burning?

 

[HBarlow]

Gary,



Would you be kind enough to tell us where you got that little bit of news about England having a higher standard of living than the US? Sounds like something from the left wing media.



I have visited England and have a few British friends who used to visit the area where I live every year. They are rock and rollers who love the music of Buddy Holley who was born and raised here. I've had many conversations with them about their lifestyles back in Britain.



I suspect the claim that the Brits have a higher standard of living is based on some liberals love for their socialist hand out system that provides for those who don't work and the government run health care system.



Speaking just for myself, I've always felt that in America I could acheive as much as my ability and effort was worth. I haven't run across any robber barons who have deprived me of anything and actually feel that I've achieved a level of success and financial reward that I am comfortable with. Not wealthy certainly, but quite comfortable. America has been pretty good to me. I'm grateful to live here and be an American.



Harvey