Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) The Search for Max H.P. 24 Valve

[RacinDuallie]

I guess that some guys would rather leave them horses un-tapped? Dont sell it --dont want it?

Let's get around that thinking! Oo.

A large budgeted company did the research- found something there and we know of it! Only the real HARDCORE need apply then- I'm talking about the person that will search for every last bit of H. P.

Let's try to figure out how to solve this problem- IMHO relocating the Intake Horn would serve no purpose- it's in that danged plenum.

 

[ob1kobi]

A company with a large budget, did do the research and obviously did find something that worked, for there application. I could be wrong, but I don't think anybody on here is trying to do the same type of activity. Its comparing apples to oranges.



I am not sure, but has anybody tested with a ported head to see what the results are, or do we just assume that they are better?

 

[ob1kobi]

and if your looking to make your truck faster, or trying to be hardcore as you say, try taking the mudders off of your truck first

 

[RDLeader]

It seems logical that it would crack there at the plug, it's the farthest away from the intake (no air there). Makes sense to me. Didn't someone do some temp testing of the cylinders somewhere, sometime?



Hammer, you hit the nail on the head. That is why I am not going to cut mine up right now. I will have my stocker to play with, or Justin will send me one to cut on and build an intake for. We will have to do a dyno comparison after the swap to find out what difference there is. I am gonna put up the pics of the porting when I get it set up for the o-rings in a couple days.



Roman

 

[COMP461]

The premise for porting the head is to reduce the restriction and let more air in the chamber . I believe that with a really tricked out head , you can move a greater quantity of air with out the heat and increase of related drive pressure. I would recommend a head porting as almost a basic beginning of diesel hot rodding. The diesel exhibited none of the draw back associated with bigger heads or cam that a gas motor dose , would make head work a great beginning point . you need to take the head off any way to work on combustion containment. Meaning either o-rings or the new MLS gasket on the 24 valve, and a good set of ARP studs . the removal of the intake is the only way to get really big increases in air flow . while the port work done with out removing the intake will dramatically increase air flow over stock, the next step is just as dramatic as this one. To go one farther is to move the valves in towards the center of the chamber , this is out side the realm of all but a few of the high end people like John at Buddha, or Ray at RAYMAC . If you achieve this air flow on a relatively stock truck you could have some of the same benefits of twins with out all the plumbing. Buy the way if you don’t think people aren’t spending big bucks a high end head from one of these guys will run you $10,000 plus , and both are booked for a long time



I have seen what a port job and small Buddha cam will do on a 05 CTD . this truck was treated to a matched set of Doc’s injectors and module . the power was a respectable 472 RWH with no smoke and no signs as to any modifications unless you hit the loud peddle. This is the same truck we do about 10 a week for a few dodge dealers around . We took a demo for one of the owners and worked the head and installed one of Buddha powers grinds the EGT,s cooled a good deal at full pulling power. The truck picked about 45 hp peak but above in the higher RPM’s it didn’t lose like normal. Holding for a gain of 75 RWH

 

[Smokin Ram]

Has any one looked into slicing a 12 valve intake off, ive got a 12 valve 53 block and im running really high fueling, and high egts, im ported and oringed. . If you look at a 24 valve you have lots of area to rebolt the new intake to, the 12 valve you dont, i was going to reman a new intake out of aluminum, and stud it back to the block... can you weld to the block, i dont think you can without stress problems from the weld.



Ive seen the huge problem with the egts in 1 and 6 and i really want it fixed.

What about cutting the intake off and manufacturing a header intake, like 6 separate tubes feeding each cylinder, i dont know about equal pressure though, but right now were definately not gettting it with the stock one.



Has anyone tried feeding the boost from the turbo over the engine and into the intake with a header design? It would eliminate a lot of the inefficiencies of the intercooler, and when im on the track it doesnt do much good.



Like im no expert here so dont rag on me, im just bouncing ideas, i really want to do this, i know it will give huge benefits, thanks RacinDuallie, you've reminded me the real reason for site, i was getting really bored there.



Im in serious for this one, let me know what your finding out, i need a way to do this.

 

[Smokin Ram]

i ve seen two differently ported heads, ont he same truck, one head ave a 200 degree cooling effect and the other a 350 degree cooling effect. Porting has a huge benefit, if the sworl chamber is left in tact, but i really want the 1 and 6 cylinders breathing, it makes me sick to think how hot they are... let me know what you think i need ideas, im so hopped up to get this fixed.

 

[Smokin Ram]

and if your looking to make your truck faster, or trying to be hardcore as you say, try taking the mudders off of your truck first

But whats the point of that, if you can make your heavy Cummins do something a little rice rocket can, then thats superior engineering. Its all in how you do it.

 

[RDLeader]

DMulock, I think both Comp and Mr. Bentz run their intakes straight from the turbos. They still have to be cooled. How they do that I don't know (nitrous, water?). Banks did a header design intake for their sidewinder truck, it's pretty slick, they do not sell it however. There would be no problem welding the head, assuming the proper precautions are taken. That's what I thought about, welding a intake straight on the head. I am far from that point though.



Roman

 

[2broke2smoke]

may be wrong here but isn't there a big (like 1 inch) threaded plug in the intake right near the number six intake ... seem to remember seeing something when i put the injectors in ...



would putting a 1 inch nipple (something cheap) in the air horn and running a piece of rubber hose into a similiar nipple in place of that plug increase the flow to number six ...



probably not what you guys had in mind but the whole thing could be done free with spare parts in about a half an hour

 

[RacinDuallie]

and if your looking to make your truck faster, or trying to be hardcore as you say, try taking the mudders off of your truck first

ROFLMAO ! ! :-laf



ob1kobi- That's my whole adgenda- I don't show up to the track with my truck on a trailer... . I RACE on Interco mud tires on purpose! ! I dont want to go to race track- change tires to slicks- change settings and all that?? Heck ask anyone in Jersey that has seen me I keep my track I. D. numbers-Class- and a rough dail in(I keep the tenths of dail off-to adjust) ALWAYS on my windows with Vynil lettering- my reasoning- I can pull into track- go thru tech( qwickly) and get to the staging lanes (qwickly) . I like to race JUST like I drive it on the street- no shame- at all. Believe it or not with a super nice burnout they stick pretty danged good to that track surface.

And feel for the guys that are racing thier RACE CARS- against me with my Ram Quad-Cab 3500 4x4 Diesel Duallie- I just about cause an uproar!!

Most of them shake thier heads in disbelief at the FACT that they just got put on the trailer by a truck, big one at that, diesel powered- and here is the best part that you mention - ON MUDDERS!!!!

 

[RacinDuallie]

Like im no expert here so dont rag on me, im just bouncing ideas, i really want to do this, i know it will give huge benefits, thanks RacinDuallie, you've reminded me the real reason for site, i was getting really bored there.



Im in serious for this one, let me know what your finding out, i need a way to do this.

Not a problem!! Sometimes all that bickering going on sidetracks us from the main purpose to fully enjoy our experience with our CTD.



And Hey look instead of a dead Thread(s) they have been reborn with enthuisiasm- fella's are talking bout modifiy-ing- testing trading information- and could the reason for the 53 Block Cracking Issue be solved??? After how long? If you lay it out like I have, it just makes sense... ... ... .



To the guys looking to do some kind of modified intake horn on the 24 Valve- Best of Luck to ya! ! Oo. I'm not negatitive



My opinion is the problem is in the Plenum- doesnt matter if the Horn is mounted right over #6 it just cannot flow the air into #6 with that restriction right there IN THE PLENUM !



Speed up that flow going into the cylinder and watch the power build easier- with lower E. G. T. 's and when you lower the E. G. T. 's and speed up the airflow THEN you add the gigantic fuel delivery - more air volume= more fuel volume =



The guys who run without an intercooler use Nitros & water for additional cooling because these methods are much faster to cool down temps than compared to an intercooler- and they have taken the restriction of the intercooler out of thier systems.



I really dont think actual welding to the cylinder head would be a good idea fellas!!! Seek professional advise on that one!!!





As far as welding up a new type of Intake Manifold Plenum why not make a plug- For Casting!!!!! That way if there is success in this -then with one cast already -that would mean another could also be cast, and another, and another- get my picture yet?? Figure out where and how to cut and tap for this intake to boltup to cylinder head and then we have instructions to hand to the machinist of our trusting choice, are you hearing me now?

:-laf

 

[ob1kobi]

ROFLMAO ! ! :-laf



ob1kobi- That's my whole adgenda- I don't show up to the track with my truck on a trailer... . I RACE on Interco mud tires on purpose! ! I dont want to go to race track- change tires to slicks- change settings and all that?? Heck ask anyone in Jersey that has seen me I keep my track I. D. numbers-Class- and a rough dail in(I keep the tenths of dail off-to adjust) ALWAYS on my windows with Vynil lettering- my reasoning- I can pull into track- go thru tech( qwickly) and get to the staging lanes (qwickly) . I like to race JUST like I drive it on the street- no shame- at all. Believe it or not with a super nice burnout they stick pretty danged good to that track surface.

And feel for the guys that are racing thier RACE CARS- against me with my Ram Quad-Cab 3500 4x4 Diesel Duallie- I just about cause an uproar!!

Most of them shake thier heads in disbelief at the FACT that they just got put on the trailer by a truck, big one at that, diesel powered- and here is the best part that you mention - ON MUDDERS!!!!

I understand why you do it but its not the tires that impress them, its the truck itself. When I first started at my track, there was a guy that ran with big tires and amazed the crowd just like your doing, then I showed up and beat him by a good 2 seconds and that was pretty much the end of his 15 minutes. You really want to impress them, put some decent tires on and run some 14's, 13's, 12's, or maybe even 11's. It just seems like you should start out with something like that, instead of trying to redesign a head or intake system is all. Just my opinion.

 

[Hammer]

I guess that some guys would rather leave them horses un-tapped? Dont sell it --dont want it?

Untapped???

No,I would have to say it would be more like leaving your wallet untapped. Maybe for a better prospective of what it would cost you to do a sheet metal intake to correct your airflow you need to call Wilson Manifolds and chat with them. Ask them what the intial cost of mocking one up to do the desired job would cost you. I am fairly certain that for the job you want done there are much easier ways to cool those cylinders and help the airflow. This sounds more like to me another case of "pimp my truck" which runs rampant here in the TDR. Spend huge amounts of money on parts which return no gains only losses in cash and later sell those parts at incredible losses because they didn't do a thing to help. I have a gentleman who I work with out here who has taught me a very valuable lesson,one Racinduallie you should learn,Its not how much you spend to go fast,its how you use the money spent to go fast. The racing your doing means nothing to me when you say about how upset they are when you win. Anyone,driving any type of vehicle,can derail your hopes in a bracket race. HP and Speed mean nothing,however,having the best package does produce wins all the time... ... ... . Andy

 

[COMP461]

If you can get Wilson to build you a manifold for a diesel in a reasonable amount of time and stop work on Greg Andersons Pro Stock heads . good luck. I have a C/ED manifold being built there now , on one of my projects it’s a single carb small block, its been 5 months and the cost will be around $ 4500 when finished . it should be about 15 to 20 hp better then the $2500 Hogan manifold it is replacing , which was 10 hp better then its predecessor. On dry flow it is not near as critical and I have already had my plates water jetted out to use as the flange part of the new sheet metal manifold for my head.



This is really easy on a diesel , no runner length to experiment with, any one want a manifold and head work , give me a call, I am sure that there is room

 

[RacinDuallie]

Fellas,

Where do I begin?



Hammer,

I too, have seen both the 12v and the 24v CTD put out 800+ H. P. ; I KNOW that the real B I G Dogs in the Pulling circuit have an even higher H. P. level than we are led to believe, Secrets? YOU BET!!



I am not interested in a time consuming, labor intensive, 1 TIME JOB- by having a sheetmetal manifold plenum welded up on someone elses watch or dime!!

Please read-post # 32 here on this Thread, then re-read!



ob1kobi,

Oh yes!! I KNOW it's the whole package that impresses the crap out of them, But (-and I've seen it time & time again) when they look down at the Mudders- all 6 of them, it's like a SLAP in their face!! :-laf

B. T. W. kobi- These 'mudders' have already propelled me to the 14's- already run in the 13's- and was running in the 12. 9's with my 'OLD' motor set-up !! Which by your Sig #'s posted would have them mudders nipping at your side mirror of your work truck!!! ROFLMAO!!!! :-laf

And that was with a single turbo truck -stock inners (in Block)! :-laf



My new 'build' WILL put me ahead of YOUR buisness truck ! Oh and how heavy is that regular cab ? That's what I thought!!

And I have no intentions of CHANGING my mudders! They've worked for me so far-why spend the money? Besides I don't drive it on the streets with slicks on it do you?



Who's talking about 'pimp my truck?' If that's your game check with M t. v.

not me, and certainly not this forum. :-laf

This Thread is not about how fast you run, how fast I SHOULD run, and how fast anyone runs!! It's not about what tires someone thinks you should run to impress people either, How can you comment on respectable times- when you have no idea WHAT I've run already? Nor is it about how much money is spent out of one's pocket- How do you know how much money I spend anyhow? And furthermore why would you care?

Call Ophra and tell her about it!! LOL!





Now please guys BACK TO THE THREAD!!!!

 

[RacinDuallie]

Hey Comp-

Correct me if I'm wrong- You- or someone you know IS making a cylinder head? Aluminum?

That's what I'd like to make this manifold plenum out of- Cast Aluminum.

Your probally using a Billet block of it no?

Please keep us informed !







So that's my idea- make a 'casting plug' for a 'Bolt-on' redesigned intake manifold plenum. Yes cylinder head modifications needed...



I'm not talking about some stupid waste of money intake horn- Banks has that market cornered already- why fight it?

Besides that's not where the problem is anyhow!! You can manifacture an intake horn into a big fancy corkscrew and paint it red and sell it- that's still not gonna improve the flow in the plenum.

 

[ob1kobi]

I don't know anything about you, your truck, or your times. I judged you by your signature and the different posts that you have started since you recently joined the TDR, and also since there were no times associated with your signature I figured you were just geting started, and thats why I gave the advise that I did. You can run your trucks on whatever tires you choose, but there not safe and they will slow you down. You can choose to spend your money however you want to, I was just giving advise based upon your signature. Your truck can outrun my work truck, congratulations as it is a work truck set up for towing. As for my business truck, I seriousley doubt that your truck is going to outrun that outdated time in my signature, or keep up with what it is running now. I may be wrong, but I will leave that up to you to prove. You keep referring to the Big Boys out there, watch and learn from them. They don't race duallys and they don't race on mudders. You may want to watch your crank height also, there are rules concerning what the height can be and as you get faster they may start to pay a little more attention to that, from a safety perspective. Good luck with whatever route you decide to go, and I will keep my eye out for you at some of the bigger events.



Ted

 

[RacinDuallie]

I don't know anything about you, your truck, or your times. I judged you by your signature and the different posts that you have started since you recently joined the TDR, and also since there were no times associated with your signature I figured you were just geting started, and thats why I gave the advise that I did. You can run your trucks on whatever tires you choose, but there not safe and they will slow you down. You can choose to spend your money however you want to, I was just giving advise based upon your signature. Your truck can outrun my work truck, congratulations as it is a work truck set up for towing. As for my business truck, I seriousley doubt that your truck is going to outrun that outdated time in my signature, or keep up with what it is running now. I may be wrong, but I will leave that up to you to prove. You keep referring to the Big Boys out there, watch and learn from them. They don't race duallys and they don't race on mudders. You may want to watch your crank height also, there are rules concerning what the height can be and as you get faster they may start to pay a little more attention to that, from a safety perspective. Good luck with whatever route you decide to go, and I will keep my eye out for you at some of the bigger events.



Ted

I've been a subscriber to the TDR since about 99' - 00' if memory serves correctly. I'm NOT by any means a beginer here nor am I any kind of expert never said that I was... .

As far as posting my numbers why? I don't see any importance in that! If you want to see posted numbers come see me on the street- the times that are on my windows are the current times- I've GOT NO SECRETS TO HIDE ! !

And my 'mudders' size is 255x85-R16's They're not a set of them jumbo monster tires- Just an aggressive mudder. :-laf They work for me!!

Best 60' for my old setup (engine) fell from 1. 71- 1. 78's - guess them mudders hook pretty good huh- I've had people look out to see if they loose traction and NOPE!! All hook... . Yes I KNOW the norm is reg cab single rear wheels- But I'm not from the school that follows the crowd- I like to stand out on my own( and I AM doing it by running respectable times)

Yes I would most definately like to run you at one of the events-

I'm easy to spot- Look for the FAST BLACK DUALLY- WITH MUDDERS !!! :-laf

I am also fully aware of the crankshaft centerline height rule- I pass Tech- and I only have a leveling kit in the front(springs-not a spacer ) If I came off as a beginer newbie- to you- then EXCUSE ME ! But hello ( I'm not!!!)

:-laf :-laf

 

[justinp20012500]

A company with a large budget, did do the research and obviously did find something that worked, for there application. I could be wrong, but I don't think anybody on here is trying to do the same type of activity. Its comparing apples to oranges.



I am not sure, but has anybody tested with a ported head to see what the results are, or do we just assume that they are better?

When I get the trans done I will let you know.



I dynoed on a mustang load dyno a week before my HG blew. I replaced the head gasket with haisley's fire rings/studs and a mild (very mild) port job.



I really did not notice a increase/decrease in EGT's. But the dyno might tell a different story.





Justin