Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) The Search for Max H.P. 24 Valve

[COMP461]

You don't get it do you , I help a lot of people on here , it was intended to show how easy it is to whip up a manifold , if you have access to the right technology , such as a water jet machine . I have freely given out my contacts of the people in my circle , that do little things like manifold flanges , header flanges , intake runners , and mid plates adapter if you would quit being adversarial , you might benefit from my various contacts. I have built several manifolds, and have bought several manifolds. I have help developed several new motor combinations, and the diesel is no different. If people will forget it’s a diesel and treats it like any other race motor it would go much faster.

 

[COMP461]

another of my project , and one is already going to a competitors truck,

 

[RacinDuallie]

So Comp you want to see some gas stuff? The first pic is my BigBlock for my '66 Charger- it has very LONG LEGS! :-laf The second is one day when I was out for milk-
(that's an Autometer 200 M. P. H. Speedo)

 

[RacinDuallie]

Here's my mopar mega block that's going to yield 620 cu. in. That's destined for my tube frame '65 Barracuda racer that I work on when I have bad gas-:-laf

 

[RacinDuallie]

Here Comp is one of my old skool Hemi's... .....

 

[RacinDuallie]

It is YOU that Doesnt get it!! We don't care for it here -so why show it! This is a Diesel forum...
Just to go on and show your junk is pointless here-stick to the contents of this website and stick to the contents of the thread that your on -THANK YOU... ... ... ... .



















:-lafand Comp- your lil itty bitty 6cylinder on the dyno there does little to impress here o. k. ?
why don't you try adding another carb to it... ... ...
When my MEGA Block 620 gets done it'll be 1000H. P. with ONE carb!!!

 

[RacinDuallie]

Now Fellas Back to the Thread... ... ... ... ... .

 

[RacinDuallie]

:-laf some people just DON'T get it!! I can't understand why some people get away with what they continue to do on multiple threads here on this forum...

Hopefully some changes will be made

 

[RacinDuallie]

#@$%! Time to go show that #6 port who's boss... ... ... ... .....

I'm going in the shop and closing the door..... Wondering why Popular HotRodding won't allow DIESELS in their Engine Masters Challange... ... ... ... ... ... ..... :-laf

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

I want to know if there is any way to put a super charger on to the side of the block you just cut off? Could something be designed to force the air into the head ( supercharger style ) that would be beneficial to the performance of the engine? One other question, you show number 6 cylinder in the above pic that looks different, maybe burnt? How is you new manifold going to regulate where the air goes, thus equalizing out as it goes through? Does there have to be some type of runner for the air to go through , or is that not a concern? Just thinking out loud here..... hope that makes sense...

 

[RacinDuallie]

A supercharger... ... hmmmmm... . I would like to think that at some point, after that 2nd gonzo sized turbo(you left that out- I put it in!:-laf ) spools up that the supercharger would become a restriction in the system... . ? one wonders about a gate in the intake tract system to allow BYPASS after a certain psi is reached- to enable a charger to spool two gargantuan sized turbos to a certain psi (i. e. -the sweet spot) and then close the gate for the turbos to take over and drop that restriction out of the tract?... ... ... ... ... ... .

About the manifold forget about a 'Log' or 'Individual Port' type intake- won't work... .
theres no way to control the flow that way- what's gonna happen after the valves close? with any kind of 'real' boost the psi in the runner could push the valves open again when you don't want them to and your piston tops will get hammered by valves that are opening when they should be closed. :{ You want to have somewhat of control over reversion inside of the intake tract to prevent bad awful stuff like that from happening... ... .


and the mounting flange is not machined into that surface yet- I'm having some fun in the ports make some cast iron dust( but being careful not to poke thru any of those danged water passages... ... ... ... ... .

 

[DieselNasty]

"About the manifold forget about a 'Log' or 'Individual Port' type intake- won't work... .

theres no way to control the flow that way- what's gonna happen after the valves close? with any kind of 'real' boost the psi in the runner could push the valves open again when you don't want them to and your piston tops will get hammered by valves that are opening when they should be closed. You want to have somewhat of control over reversion inside of the intake tract to prevent bad awful stuff like that from happening... ... . "



Wouldn't you still have the same amount of boost in the intake you are going to have, how will you controll this pressure any different thenb in individual runners? Couldn't you also get stiffer valve springs?

 

[COMP461]

Two words Valve Spring



This is the reason behind the high end valve springs and subsequent spring pressures I run . With a 1. 270 intake valve you must control the valve train and at the same time boost pressure on the back side of the valve . A1. 27 valve has a area of 1. 26 square inches combine that with 60 PSI of boost you have a force exerted on the valve equal to 72 lbs , with the springs offered by some you don’t have much left to control the vale motion , in addition the exhaust spring has to fight drive pressure.



The ultimate intake would have tuned length runners there by allowing the first order wave , caused by the closing of the intake valve to not reach the plenum before the next event starts at a given RPM . In tuned length runners the momentum of the air column actually pack air in a ram effect waiting on the next event. There is a lot of room left for development . I have on gas motors , built and cut off the runners several times trying to get the optimal length for the rpm desired and there is a definite correlation in the diesel engine . I have header and intake flanges already water jetted out to build a few manifolds .

 

[joaker]

Wow, this is one of the few long threads that I have went through nearly from beginning to end... . It has been extremely informitive, and though I am just a beginner in this game of black smoke, I have already been wondering if there was some way to get more power, without and drugs... . though I have temporarily hit a roadblock, I am always eager to find something more, as I am sure nearly all of us on here are. Racin Duallie, I was looking at your profile, and I didn't see much in the way of what mods were actually done to your CTD, what sort of electronic wizardry are you using on that beast? And I apologize if I missed it, but what kind of numbers were you able to produce on the dyno with your single turbo setup? I am currently running a 24V also and it seems like we are the engines out there that make the smallest HP modified, though this thread has really boosted my hopes... . I was originally hoping for a nice even 500 at the wheels, no drugs, and if you look at my profile, I feel as though the parts I used should yield somewhere in that area for power, but as of yet I am doubtful, and am presently fighting with HIGH egt's, which is where this thread has also proven to be educational.



There seem to be a lot of extremely knowledgable individuals on here, and I am surprised and kind of annoyed by the fact that people feel the need to belittle others who are just trying to put their 2-bits in anonymously, especially someone people with such a love for the same thing, why the heck would you need to give someone grief for posting information/pictures that is not diesel related, then right after that, post four times more, of the same stuff you just complained about..... seems a bit hypocritical doesn't it? I personally have respect for both, but why complain about it, you complaints only take up more space... and as for the little remark about the six cylinder not making as much power as the monstrous gas guzzling 600+cid big block... . wow, I am blown away that someone of your expertise would even make a remark like that, any TRUE performance guy, diesel, or gas, car or truck, has an appreciation for someone else's hard work and accomplishments, and wouldn't stoop to the point of ridiculing someone's efforts. Off my soapbox I go, sorry for taking up everyone's time, keep up the awesome work..... all of you, it is minds such as your's that make us power junkies a group of our own. Also, sorry if I caused hard feelings, it was not intended, just thought a third person perspective provide some insight... ... keep smokin'

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

A supercharger... ... hmmmmm... . I would like to think that at some point, after that 2nd gonzo sized turbo(you left that out- I put it in!:-laf ) spools up that the supercharger would become a restriction in the system... . ? one wonders about a gate in the intake tract system to allow BYPASS after a certain psi is reached- to enable a charger to spool two gargantuan sized turbos to a certain psi (i. e. -the sweet spot) and then close the gate for the turbos to take over and drop that restriction out of the tract?... ... ... ... ... ... .



QUOTE]



Ok, If I can pick your brain here for a sec... ... Would it be possible to run a blower off the serpentine belt, for a better instantaneous response... ... then as the turbo(s) spool up to a certain psi, they take over for the air induction via ,... ..... maybe some type of pressure valve? So you could actually have up to a certain amount of air induced to the motor, and the rest either wastegated or pop off valve somewhere in-line. You would have to have the control of the air low somewhere, just not sure where. Is any of this making sense to you?



All I could picture on the side of the head was a blower type set-up the goes the whole length of the head, but am unsure of how the turbos would be plumbed in and as stated before, the control of the air pressure is a factor.



Thinking out loud again.....

 

[RacinDuallie]

There seem to be a lot of extremely knowledgable individuals on here, and I am surprised and kind of annoyed by the fact that people feel the need to belittle others who are just trying to put their 2-bits in anonymously, especially someone people with such a love for the same thing, why the heck would you need to give someone grief for posting information/pictures that is not diesel related, then right after that, post four times more, of the same stuff you just complained about..... seems a bit hypocritical doesn't it?


Yes I can respect what Dr. P's money has allowed Greg to do, heck I personally don't have a problem with his posts WHEN THEY PERTAIN TO THE CONTENT OF DISCUSSION- To come out of nowhere and post *plugs* on quite a few threads on this forum from out of NOWHERE- it gets annoying, and tiresome. But to top it off he goes and brags about having a *frontline this* and *cutting edge that* and does alot of his own belittle-ing all over this forum. When Greg chooses to stick to the subject and stop talkin down on people and contributes posts that are informatitve then I too enjoy what he has to say. Alittle ribbing is o. k. if in good humor. To go and post pics of a (gas) manifold and how many caught that first- show us a CTD modified manifold- then post another pic of a (gas) engine on a dyno- and then go into he *me*- *I*- *mine* *plug* for himself well I'm sorry for losing my patience with him- OTHER PEOPLE work on gas engines too- we just don't go plugging them on a Diesel forum- I posted mine in retaliation- Sometimes I think he does what he does just to *plug* his SIG... ... I don't *plug* anyone or anything on any threads let alone the numerous ones he's shined his wisdom onto.


******

I personally have respect for both, but why complain about it, you complaints only take up more space...


*******

I agree with you- I'd rather stick to the subject at hand

 

[COMP461]

The ideal is to get air in to the motor , and not to make big boost numbers , in other words pounds of air in , and not pounds of boost . I believe that a big blower , like a pro charger , or maybe even a hi-helix screw blower would provide all the air you could want . the added benefit of a blower would be no exhaust back pressure , , remember a turbo is not as free a power as most think, if you take the 90 PSI of exhaust back pressure out of the equation ,and are able to scavenge the tuned headers , the intake track might pick up flow also. I would guess that 30 to 40 PSI would make the same power as the 60 to 90 PSI of boost with turbos , this kind of blower would take power to turn ,but would add instant RPM related boost. I would even consider a clutch with a blower

 

[RacinDuallie]

"About the manifold forget about a 'Log' or 'Individual Port' type intake- won't work... .
theres no way to control the flow that way- what's gonna happen after the valves close? with any kind of 'real' boost the psi in the runner could push the valves open again when you don't want them to and your piston tops will get hammered by valves that are opening when they should be closed. You want to have somewhat of control over reversion inside of the intake tract to prevent bad awful stuff like that from happening... ... . "

Wouldn't you still have the same amount of boost in the intake you are going to have, how will you controll this pressure any different thenb in individual runners? Couldn't you also get stiffer valve springs?

Stiffer valve springs yes- (after camshaft swap this should be taken care of)

I really didn't plan on an individual port runner type manifold.....
How would a manifold like that *fit* inside our engine compartments?
would be good for an all out race-only type vehicle (like The Edge Truck or Dr. P's)
My concerns here is for a manifold that will package well into our street driven trucks that are occasionally used for weekend racing- fun ect. Though the thought is right there but how would something like that perform on a daily basis??
My idea is to remove the restricted plenum- for a UN-restricted Plenum design- but made in a way to package well into our engine compartments and not deviate from the origonal plan- Refined so to speak... .
As far as controlled reversion in the intake- I'd rather see the open plenum closer to the ports-get the air closer to the valves and not lost in ports of a individual runner type manifold... ... under massive psi-doesnt matter the air is gonna cram itself in there- but how many of you run massive boost in a day to day- daily driver type vehicle? I sure would'nt be happy having to spool up huge in bumper to bumper traffic just to move up a couple of feet... . No I want to provide a manifold that allows our normal everyday functions- and removes the restrictions that's found in our Cummins stock Plenum...
You want your truck to still be livable on the street too right ? If you want just an all out Race manifold then you don't have to worry about the manifold confinements in a stock engine compartment, as you would have removed quite a bit of the equipment already in the engine compartment- The thought here is to lose the restrictions- maintain daily drivability- and still allow the head to flow up with building boost- minus the restrictions... ... .....

 

[RacinDuallie]

Back for some 'Head-Games'
# 6 cylinder port: open up and say ahhhhhhh:--)

 

[Hohn]

Well, another all-star thread lessened by the urinary olympics. Physicians, heal thyself-- or was that, whiners, police thyself?



Racinduallie-- I'm glad to see you take on this project. I firmly believe that the heads on these things are the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. The factory ports look like they flow about what a stock 318 does-- meager for sure.



I'd bet with an opimized head, a truck could run <35psi of boost and smoke trucks running 70+. Ideally, there would BE no boost, as all of the airflow would be swallowed by the engine. But alas, the heads don't flow enough, so we measure an intake restriction known as boost.



I think that the solution lies in a custom head, not just a manifold setup. If you went with a custom (taller) head, you could set it up with longer valves and open up the port windows. I think a long valve setup with longer pushrods and a better cam could really help things along.



Ideally, the valve curtain area should be the most restrictive point in the intake, but the factory setup doesn't allow that.





You have to keep in mind that these engines are NOT designed for massive airflow and huge HP. They are designed to make 250-370 hp or so and do it for a very very long time.



So, when we start cranking up the boost to head-popping levels, we are really using the wrong tool for the job. We need a different head. Yes, the OEM design can be tweaked and band-aided, but there only so far you can go. The improvements will seem drastic primarily because the OEM head is so poor.



Now, with a custom head with 350+cc port volume, the airflow improvements would be rediculously great. A custom head would allow you to locate the valves to allow a larger size valve to be optimally placed.



With a custom head, you would soon reach the point where the intercooler and the factory plumbing become the main restrictions. You'd have to replumb with larger line (5"?) all the way.



Once you get the manifold deal all squared away, I'm certain that you will see some great and impressive results.



Me, I'll wait until Banks comes out with one if I ever want to go with this route.



At the power levels I want to run, the cost/benefit isn't that favorable... .



jlh