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This Concerns me Somewhat

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Jim Pope..tried to respond

I was off work today an it was pay day so this morning I went by work to get my check. Afterwards I was walking back to the gate an decided to go into the shop to b. s. with a couple of the shop mechanic friends of mine.



As we were talking I happen to think to ask one of the mechanics if he had seen any problems arise with the new fuel (ULSD) we started using back in Sept 04. I posted a thread about our work place starting to use this a few months ago.



His answer was "yes" an the first thing that come out of his mouth was leaks. He commented "its just like when they made the change over on freon on the ac from R12 to the 134 started seeing more leaks. Pretty much all our fleet of pickups we use going to job sites are Fords along with our mechanics service trucks.



I ask if they had to replace any injector pumps yet, an he said no, not at this time. Seems to me the leaks are developing around the lift pump or pusher pump from what he was describing to me, he said his service truck started leaking fuel an he was able just to tighten a line up on it an stoped it, but several of the other trucks the pumps where leaking where the only fix was to replace the pumps with new one's (maybe blowin out the seals or what ever). There was one laying there in the trash can he picked up and showed me saying this one was bad an we had to replace it. He told me that it seemed the newer vehicles really had not had any problems with this as far as leaks go that he new of, hadn't had one in the shop yet that mostly was our trucks year ranging later 90's up to he said 2000 or 2001 models that he's seen in the shop with same fuel leaking problem.



He was blaming this on our new fuel we started using an he also told me that the fuel supplier told our "Fuel Manager" this could occur.



I wanted to stay at the shop awhile an question him more, but like most places there's always a boss hanging around watching, so I didn't want to hold him up any longer with his work. He did not mention any thing about our dump trucks or other equipment, but there again I didn't have time to question him either.



This is the first time I been able to talk to any the guys in the shop area about the new fuel were using. Guys I am no mechanic myself, I do have a limited amount of mechanical skills that I can do. I am just reporting what he was telling me. I did feel like I got some flaming on the thread about ULSD I posted a few months back from a couple of people whether or not it really was the ULSD. But according to the news letter we receive at work at the time it said the ULSD was going to be used at our work place starting Sept 04.



I believe I will continue with my fuel additive myself.



Tony
 
Last edited:
daveshoe said:
OK I'll bite. What is ULSD? Ultra low sulphur Diesel? Is this stuff in nationwide release?

Yes on the ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel) an my understanding is by 2006 on the nationwide release.



Tony
 
The last time they cut down the amount of sulfur in diesel fuel, we saw a lot of new leaks on tractors that had previously been running the high-sulfur fuel. Most of the leaks cleaned themselves up after a while as they were nothing real serious, mostly just seepage around some connections. It seemed the older they were or the more hours they had, the worse the leaks were.



I was wondering if the same would happen when ULSD came out.
 
ah heck just run off road! :-laf in your OFF ROAD "equipment" hahah Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel... ... this isn't goign to make the trucks "ultra slow" is it? The EPA needs to bother someone else, and all the california "tree huggers" saving the enviroment attitude is spreading! :eek:



Ian
 
We have been using ULSD in all the company trucks and equipment at my job for about a year and a half now and we have not had any problems at all . Now I cant say that for that trashy Purinox we we using before we went to ULSD a you can kiss high sulfer off road diesel good bye in the near future here in Texas.
 
Wayno said:
We have been using ULSD in all the company trucks and equipment at my job for about a year and a half now and we have not had any problems at all . Now I cant say that for that trashy Purinox we we using before we went to ULSD a you can kiss high sulfer off road diesel good bye in the near future here in Texas.

Hey Wayno I was wondering when you might chime in on this subject. I remember you posting when I originally posted about the ULSD last summer. I glad to here all your company trucks are doing fine. It kinda surprised me when one of our mechanics told me about all the leaks springing up on the Ford trucks, an replacing the lift pumps, several of them, so he's blaming the fuel. Again I didn't have the time to talk to him about any the other equipment. I know for a fact my motorgrader is doing fine so far on the fuel. The grader has a 8. 3 Cummins engine in it an like I said so far so good. I did notice the color of the fuel (ULSD) or at least what were getting is real clear looking,looks like your pumping water in your tank.



Tony
 
Ah yes this one is going to have alot of people talking.

First off the (ULSD) Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel pertains to the EPA spec of diesel fuel only. Which does include the (Red Dye) off road grade aswell sorry Coleman :eek:. all later model diesels have been engineered to be compatable with the new stuff. As for the the older models with O ring/gasket sensitive injector pumps, they will continue to have to use some sort of additive. But now matter how you slice the pie gentlemen the new stuff is an EPA mandated reality and will burn much cleaner and should have no ill effect on either power or econmy not to mention the benefits to the environment.



Mac

Conocophillips Los Angeles
 
If the EPA was so concerned about diesel emissions how come they are not pushing bio ? after all the first diesel was able to run on peanut oil. Oh, thats right, we have to pay more if we want to use a bio blend, that is if you can find it. Don't get me started, EPA my a**
 
Update: I was in the shop break room yesterday morning, and the mechanic that had told me about the leakings pumps was there. I ask him if they were still having problems with leaks and having to replace any lift pumps, his answer was "no" not since they started adding fuel additive to the storage tanks. I ask what brand they were putting in and he didn't know also the fuel manager had not made it to work yet. He said it had been about two months ago when they started adding the fuel additive. I try here in the near future to find out what there using.



Tony
 
It is and it ain't

The ULSD tag will not go on the diesel until later this year, lubricity injection is taking place now, sulfer levels are at 500 PPM (ours is way below this level now) and below at this time. They will be dropped to 5 PPM before the first of the year 06. We have had NO complaints from customers at the present levels. No fuel leaks, and no performance problems. We are however trying to find out what other additives we will have to deal with, the latest rumor is we will have a anti-static additive on top of the lubricity. I am told that the new ULSD will have the tendacly to produce more static electricity at flow.



ConocoPhillips Colorado :D
 
Champane Flight said:
the latest rumor is we will have a anti-static additive on top of the lubricity. I am told that the new ULSD will have the tendacly to produce more static electricity at flow.



ConocoPhillips Colorado :D



:eek: Yikes. Obviously, then, the refiners are including lubricity-enhancement additives themselves?



I know there's always a lot of talk around here about not "trusting the refiners" to put out good fuel.



-Ryan
 
Champane Flight said:
The ULSD tag will not go on the diesel until later this year, lubricity injection is taking place now, sulfer levels are at 500 PPM (ours is way below this level now) and below at this time. They will be dropped to 5 PPM before the first of the year 06. We have had NO complaints from customers at the present levels. No fuel leaks, and no performance problems. We are however trying to find out what other additives we will have to deal with, the latest rumor is we will have a anti-static additive on top of the lubricity. I am told that the new ULSD will have the tendacly to produce more static electricity at flow.



ConocoPhillips Colorado :D

CF my understanding was the ULSD would go nationwide to the public by June 2006 from what I've read or has this changed. Also that lowering the sulfur down to 15ppm from the current 500ppm. Has the figures changed now to 5ppm. :confused:



Thinking out loud here a minute "uh oh no" :-laf as Wayno and you have stated no problems with leaks or whatever could it be that additive was already added before the start of use of the ULSD such in Waynos work place as a example. I know our work place (govt) did not start adding the additive until here recently, and the rash of leaks and replacing the lift pumps seem to have ceased according to the mechanic I talked to.



I have not seen any performace problems or leaks so far on the piece of equipment I operate, but there again is pretty new.



One other thing I have not mentioned, and this is merely a observation from my uncles part (he works at the same place I do, and is one of the truck drivers) is he claims since we switched over fuels back in Sept 04 that he has noticed that the mileage is not as good. Now he has made no written documantion of keeping a fuel log, but has noticed having to fill his tank sooner than he did before the switch over. He said it was not great deal of difference, but noticeable to him. This was running the same routes he was before FWIW.



Tony
 
Nothing big to worry about.

The leaks these mechs are seeing could be caused from a number of things besides ULSD additives. One: it could be that fuel jobber is doing a little blending of his own, did not notice your location, but several jobbers are going to high levels of #1 blend for winter fuels. After the fuel leaves the terminals anything can be added, blended, or done to fuels under the table. I have seen jobbers even blend in old fuel bought from old storage tanks. I would not be too quick to make a fuel leak problem in one location the norm for all ULSD, Europe has been burning low sulfer diesels for years now with no problems. Refiners (oil companys in general) have a habit of always going one step further to stay within government regs, with COP it has always been this way, 5 PPM gives a cushion of 10 PPM work with, from what I understand breaking compliance carries a healthy fine. :( As far as my mileage, it has been steady, except for the regular winter drop, maybe this is what your uncle has seen?



Hey Mac, you with refinery, or pipeline?
 
Tony T. said:
CF my understanding was the ULSD would go nationwide to the public by June 2006 from what I've read or has this changed. Also that lowering the sulfur down to 15ppm from the current 500ppm. Has the figures changed now to 5ppm. :confused:



Thinking out loud here a minute "uh oh no" :-laf as Wayno and you have stated no problems with leaks or whatever could it be that additive was already added before the start of use of the ULSD such in Waynos work place as a example. I know our work place (govt) did not start adding the additive until here recently, and the rash of leaks and replacing the lift pumps seem to have ceased according to the mechanic I talked to.



I have not seen any performace problems or leaks so far on the piece of equipment I operate, but there again is pretty new.



One other thing I have not mentioned, and this is merely a observation from my uncles part (he works at the same place I do, and is one of the truck drivers) is he claims since we switched over fuels back in Sept 04 that he has noticed that the mileage is not as good. Now he has made no written documantion of keeping a fuel log, but has noticed having to fill his tank sooner than he did before the switch over. He said it was not great deal of difference, but noticeable to him. This was running the same routes he was before FWIW.



Tony

I am not an expert on this but California switched to Low Sulfur Diesel several years ago and there were many reported problems of leaking pumps, especially in older engines, and the problem was resolved over time. I cannot speak in details but I had a Dodge Cummins and after leaving California and fueling in Arizona I noticed better performance and milage on the higher Sulfur non California fuel, This was more noticable in the winter months. JMHO.



Bill Davis
 
Does anyone have experience with ULSD fed into an engine with the wick turned up a bit? Seems like the only people that have tried it are in OEM tuned applications...



I'm curious if the particulates (soot) are reduced significantly or... ?



Matt
 
BTighe said:
less smoke? that would be a shame.



No it wouldn't. As much as we hate to admit, there's a lot of work that needs to be done to improve upon the misinformed 'dirty old diesel' mentality that the vast majority of the population embraces.



Anything we can do to reduce visible particulates (amongst other pollutants) while maintaining the performance we've grown to love should be wholeheartedly accepted.



Matt
 
HoleshotHolset said:
No it wouldn't. As much as we hate to admit, there's a lot of work that needs to be done to improve upon the misinformed 'dirty old diesel' mentality that the vast majority of the population embraces.



Anything we can do to reduce visible particulates (amongst other pollutants) while maintaining the performance we've grown to love should be wholeheartedly accepted.



Matt



Couldn't agree more!!

Mike
 
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