CVR222NV
TDR MEMBER
I have SBC's SDD3250-GK-ORG dual disk organic with the hydraulic kit and I was surprised how drivable it was but I have a G56. You should definitely discuss with SBC as they have been great to deal with.
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Timken Clutch Release bearing, NV5600
- Thread starter Darkbloodmon
- Start Date
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I have SBC's SDD3250-GK-ORG dual disk organic with the hydraulic kit and I was surprised how drivable it was but I have a G56. You should definitely discuss with SBC as they have been great to deal with.
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
Update : CSR I spoke to today wasn't aware that I had already sent the clutch and plate in, it was received by them on Tuesday, I was told then (after calling and confirming they received it on Tuesday) It would be examined by Thursday(this) the latest. Thursday comes around and there is a death in the family and L takes off early for the wake, CSR tells me that L had notes for me and wanted to discuss them tomorrow morning (today) at 11:30 I agreed and had been watching my phone and email since nine. I finally called nearing two and a half hours past the scheduled time to be told L who I was talking too from Phoenix Friction had a death in the family and won't be able to look at it till next Wednesday. CSR says I'm not being brushed off, things just happen. PF is in NJ same time zone for me.
All this on top of the Holiday disruption to their schedule. I've worked retail customer service, I've worked retail automotive in both a garage and parts store. I understand things happen. But ultimately as a business you need to deliver despite your short comings in operations. I don't want to be that customer I know all too well in my job experience and I completely understand how devastating the loss of a family member can be, I'm not putting my priority as a customer above that. But Is L the only person in the whole facility that can handle my issue? I'm more than willing to re-forward all our emails with pictures discussing the issue to bring whoever up to speed.
It will be two weeks since the trans was pulled for a second time this Saturday, They've had the clutch and plate since Tuesday.
All this on top of the Holiday disruption to their schedule. I've worked retail customer service, I've worked retail automotive in both a garage and parts store. I understand things happen. But ultimately as a business you need to deliver despite your short comings in operations. I don't want to be that customer I know all too well in my job experience and I completely understand how devastating the loss of a family member can be, I'm not putting my priority as a customer above that. But Is L the only person in the whole facility that can handle my issue? I'm more than willing to re-forward all our emails with pictures discussing the issue to bring whoever up to speed.
It will be two weeks since the trans was pulled for a second time this Saturday, They've had the clutch and plate since Tuesday.
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
I don't remember breaking any mirrors but it could always be worse, since I've got nothing else I can do on that end i'll re-seal the input housing using grease to hold the shim instead of sealant for sanity's sake. I'll get pictures and note any irregularities if any.
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
Resealed, new sealant from the first seal job pulled out the counter shaft oil guide and the main shaft race. Everything was pushed back into place, assembled as it came out and re-sealed with no sealant on the shims.
Play feels identical prior to disassembly. I don't think this was my issue after looking at the main shaft shim I put sealant on the first time.
Play feels identical prior to disassembly. I don't think this was my issue after looking at the main shaft shim I put sealant on the first time.
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
Update finally got ahold of Phoenix Friction here are the notes paraphrased from the call.
I asked what was wrong with the pressure plate and disc. "Didn't see any thing wrong with the PP or disk" "Depending on the wear in transmission the disk was too aggressive"
I asked how a worn transmission could be causing the noise I was hearing coming from the bell housing and why there is a focused hot spot in one area? "I don't know, but we can't find anything wrong with the clutch or plate"
I asked how heavy was the is plate rating, i.e. is this plate a 3250 or higher? "Look at the website page for that clutch kit and it should tell you the specs, all I know is that it's a heavy duty plate and disk and that it may have been too aggressive for the wear on your transmission" They couldn't tell me what tester they used for the pressure plate.
They wanted to send me out a "softer disk and plate" this is where I said I wanted a refund. They want to send out an RMA request for a no name Chinese throw-out bearing a brass pilot bearing bushing and the plastic alignment tool. I told them I don't have those components anymore and this was discussed with L when he said he would honor the warranty and look at the clutch before I even sent it in. I asked if those items could be deducted from the refund they said yes, I asked when I could be updated on that refund, he said we'll have to figure that out but we'll send you an email or call when we do.
I have a south bend Dual Disk full Organic on order. I regret not getting it the first time and sticking my neck out.
What's the reason why a transmission could be so worn to cause a grind like in neutral with the clutch out and an isolated hot spot? I'm taking their words with a table spoon of salt given how many times I was bounced around from CSR to CSR.
I asked what was wrong with the pressure plate and disc. "Didn't see any thing wrong with the PP or disk" "Depending on the wear in transmission the disk was too aggressive"
I asked how a worn transmission could be causing the noise I was hearing coming from the bell housing and why there is a focused hot spot in one area? "I don't know, but we can't find anything wrong with the clutch or plate"
I asked how heavy was the is plate rating, i.e. is this plate a 3250 or higher? "Look at the website page for that clutch kit and it should tell you the specs, all I know is that it's a heavy duty plate and disk and that it may have been too aggressive for the wear on your transmission" They couldn't tell me what tester they used for the pressure plate.
They wanted to send me out a "softer disk and plate" this is where I said I wanted a refund. They want to send out an RMA request for a no name Chinese throw-out bearing a brass pilot bearing bushing and the plastic alignment tool. I told them I don't have those components anymore and this was discussed with L when he said he would honor the warranty and look at the clutch before I even sent it in. I asked if those items could be deducted from the refund they said yes, I asked when I could be updated on that refund, he said we'll have to figure that out but we'll send you an email or call when we do.
I have a south bend Dual Disk full Organic on order. I regret not getting it the first time and sticking my neck out.
What's the reason why a transmission could be so worn to cause a grind like in neutral with the clutch out and an isolated hot spot? I'm taking their words with a table spoon of salt given how many times I was bounced around from CSR to CSR.
Didn't "see" anything wrong with pressure plate?
WHERE IS THE PLATE LIFT TEST DATA?
A while back I referenced a doc in the TDR library about an in 2009 article Bob P. asked me to prepare. This is a snap of the plate lift vs bearing (finger) travel vs force at the bearing plotting actual plate lift dimensions thru it's release stroke from that doc. In the article I wrote this plate lift was parallel within .005" just over the thickness of a sheet of copy paper. Pretty darn good.
Your pics and matching hot spot on the FW are screaming out that area of the hot spot was last to leave the disc and first to touch the disc to start the clutch engagement sandwich.
Even w/o a test machine that produces graphs the old standard was plate lift at XXX bearing travel. Where is that data? That's what the Shepard Thomason did.
Noise. Assuming your trans is good to go with appropriate wear for age and miles but no glaring internal issues.
Have a friend call your supplier and pose the question hey I have a truck with the NV5600 and looking for a power boost and clutch to hold it but I'm also asking for a quiet as stock system. I've heard some aftermarket systems can be noisy, you know trans noise etc.
All reciprocating internal combustion engines have power pulsations. It's not like an electric motor. A heavy FW and a well tuned torsion damper reduces those pulsations to where the OEM powertrain team says yeah, that works we'll take it. It's a battle against NVH!
Even call other clutch suppliers or look up their part numbers and look at descriptions or such about the optional 8/16 spring clutch disc system.
WHERE IS THE PLATE LIFT TEST DATA?
A while back I referenced a doc in the TDR library about an in 2009 article Bob P. asked me to prepare. This is a snap of the plate lift vs bearing (finger) travel vs force at the bearing plotting actual plate lift dimensions thru it's release stroke from that doc. In the article I wrote this plate lift was parallel within .005" just over the thickness of a sheet of copy paper. Pretty darn good.
Your pics and matching hot spot on the FW are screaming out that area of the hot spot was last to leave the disc and first to touch the disc to start the clutch engagement sandwich.
Even w/o a test machine that produces graphs the old standard was plate lift at XXX bearing travel. Where is that data? That's what the Shepard Thomason did.
Noise. Assuming your trans is good to go with appropriate wear for age and miles but no glaring internal issues.
Have a friend call your supplier and pose the question hey I have a truck with the NV5600 and looking for a power boost and clutch to hold it but I'm also asking for a quiet as stock system. I've heard some aftermarket systems can be noisy, you know trans noise etc.
All reciprocating internal combustion engines have power pulsations. It's not like an electric motor. A heavy FW and a well tuned torsion damper reduces those pulsations to where the OEM powertrain team says yeah, that works we'll take it. It's a battle against NVH!
Even call other clutch suppliers or look up their part numbers and look at descriptions or such about the optional 8/16 spring clutch disc system.
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
There is no data, no one in that whole operation has any details. L is apparently the only person who is involved in the specifics and since the death in his family last Thursday everyone is running around with their heads chopped off. I've been passed around from CSR to CSR, the secretary knows my number the amount of times I've called and leaves me on hold for the new guys to deal with and all they do is say "hold on, lemme go ask".
I'm tired of dealing with them and getting brushed off. Lesson learned companies with commercial revenue streams don't give a damn.
Believe you me I am frustrated about this and not getting a clear answer. I spent 350 on a now trashed fly wheel, their 750.00 clutch kit and now they're going to deduct from my refund for the most inferior bits in the clutch kit after their assumingly defective product. Not to mention the 55 dollars to ship that clutch and plate to them to get the answer of "I don't know, your transmission is worn" Their Kevlar clutch is the least aggressive, and smoothest engaging product they had to offer, but "it may have been too aggressive"
If all goes well with the South Bend Dual Disk, I'm going to mail them the sticker and an IPA.
Last edited:
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
Update
I want to start by saying once again this job is not for the ill prepared and not to be taken lightly as a drive way job. Proper tools, equipment and workspace are critical to doing this job safely and efficiently. I failed at this twice.
We had a casualty when attempting to stab this transmission back in earlier today. A known damaged caster on a harbor freight transmission jack failed completely offsetting the balance and causing the trans to fall on the driver side on top of my friends ankle pinning his foot down underneath the weight of the transmission and transfer case. Panic struggling ensued to free his foot from a 400lb+ assembly directly on the ball of his ankle. After it was freed calls were made to friends and family and I drove him to urgent care with his brother. Thankfully his bones are as hard as he is stubborn and nothing was torn or broken. His insurance covered the examination, but I intend to cover any bills that might arise from it. After we had driven him home and put him on ice a second team was assembled to now remove the fallen transmission and attempt the install again.
The second attempt went much slower as we were all a bit shaken by the accident of our mutual friend. Ratchet straps were used to sling the transmission as the assembly was jacked up on a now "new" harbor freight transmission jack, it's the updated model of the 2year old one that I had fail. The transmission was slid in as an assembly with the transfer case, the logic being the leverage and dexterity we would have using the tail housing of the T case rather than just the rear of the transmission would help us more. A baring tool was used to verify spline alignment. The driver side dowel suffered damage in that the threads were stripped out as the trans was pulled to the adapter plate. I know this is not the factory procedure and I was the last person to agree to this fully knowing that doing this could damage the dowels which are critical to alignment. This decision was made with more than 6hrs into this job as a thunderstorm had started to roll in and the winds pick up. The dowels both aligned without issue but the driver side threads are stripped and they will stay that way until the next 150 to 200K mi for the next clutch.
This clutch was the South Bend SDD3250-6-ORG, dual disk full organic. I had received this kit from UPS on a Wednesday, inspected the parts on delivery and noticed that the clutch fork was damaged during shipping as it was gouged and bent by the flywheel teeth. Called South Bend Thursday morning and I had a new fork by Saturday afternoon. I can't say enough about the customer service I've received from south bend, night and day difference from Phoenix Friction as they finally processed my deducted refund after 3 weeks. To my surprise the clutch release bearing was a Japanese mfg. Koyo CT52A-1. This bearing alone assured me that this kit was worth its weight and would last for years to come. I had originally before I started this thread been looking for a Japanese mfg. bearing. and I could not pin down a number for the life of me and settled for the Timken 614114. There is another thread I started looking to pin down numbers for rear axle hub Japanese bearings and races. I was not able to find one and settled for the Timken's provided in the Torque King 4x4 kit as I needed the job done. The front locking hubs I installed came with Japanese mfg. Koyo bearings with Timken races. I'll follow up after referencing those part numbers.
An apples to apples comparison of the clutch around the block up to third gear. I don't have that horrid noise that I had from Phoenix Friction's Kevlar clutch. It's night and day quiet, I can hear the engine which before was drowned out by the noise of the clutch. My saga with PF came to a head for me when I shipped them back the Kevlar clutch and PP to have them "examine and test" it. After a week of calling to follow up one what they found; I essentially got shafted with a BS response along the lines of "nothing is wrong with our product that we could find, Your transmission must be worn and this clutch to aggressive" This was the answer I got after a toasted 350.00 fly wheel, and 50.00 dollars to ship it back to them. I'll own the discounted refund, it was stupid of me to throw away the components I didn't use before verifying their product worked. But I learned the hard way with PF. The 674.00 refund from the 742.00 of the original product netted me 274.00 after the damage and shipping incurred on my dime with their product.
Shift point is a good bit higher as well as the engagement on this clutch, it will take some getting used to. I can't comment on the notchyness of the shifts as I haven't broken in the short shifter or clutch in yet. Thus far I am very pleased with South Bend Clutch's product and thoroughly regret not heeding the advice of others and choosing PF.
Lastly I'd like to pose this question, At what cost was this job worth it? Beyond the parts, labor or tools. What is it worth for you to do this job? I started this at 8am eager and anxious for everything to go right and to drive this truck after 3 months of extensive work in down time. My friend and I were talking about plans for dinner later on that I would've treat him to as a small thanks on top of the many favors and time that I now owed him for his assistance. He wanted to go to Red Robin... I was somber by 10PM as the second attempt was finishing up, there was no excitement, just reflection on how wrong my focus was to overlook my lack of preparedness to do this job safely and efficiently; that ended up causing harm to someone I asked for help. If the padding on his shoes was any thinner he could've been in a cast and his screams of pain for those seconds that assembly pinned him down could've been a lot louder. This isn't Chris Fix's mustang's transmission, it's an NV5600. It's a 3/4 truck, not a Miata. This was text book "Shake hands with Danger" There's no amount of pride or satisfaction in this driveway job for me like other projects. Just a whole lot of what "If's" and why didn't "I's". I don't think this job was worth it given the tools and equipment I had at my disposal. I failed on multiple fronts. This was an experience. Feel free to learn from mine.
I want to start by saying once again this job is not for the ill prepared and not to be taken lightly as a drive way job. Proper tools, equipment and workspace are critical to doing this job safely and efficiently. I failed at this twice.
We had a casualty when attempting to stab this transmission back in earlier today. A known damaged caster on a harbor freight transmission jack failed completely offsetting the balance and causing the trans to fall on the driver side on top of my friends ankle pinning his foot down underneath the weight of the transmission and transfer case. Panic struggling ensued to free his foot from a 400lb+ assembly directly on the ball of his ankle. After it was freed calls were made to friends and family and I drove him to urgent care with his brother. Thankfully his bones are as hard as he is stubborn and nothing was torn or broken. His insurance covered the examination, but I intend to cover any bills that might arise from it. After we had driven him home and put him on ice a second team was assembled to now remove the fallen transmission and attempt the install again.
The second attempt went much slower as we were all a bit shaken by the accident of our mutual friend. Ratchet straps were used to sling the transmission as the assembly was jacked up on a now "new" harbor freight transmission jack, it's the updated model of the 2year old one that I had fail. The transmission was slid in as an assembly with the transfer case, the logic being the leverage and dexterity we would have using the tail housing of the T case rather than just the rear of the transmission would help us more. A baring tool was used to verify spline alignment. The driver side dowel suffered damage in that the threads were stripped out as the trans was pulled to the adapter plate. I know this is not the factory procedure and I was the last person to agree to this fully knowing that doing this could damage the dowels which are critical to alignment. This decision was made with more than 6hrs into this job as a thunderstorm had started to roll in and the winds pick up. The dowels both aligned without issue but the driver side threads are stripped and they will stay that way until the next 150 to 200K mi for the next clutch.
This clutch was the South Bend SDD3250-6-ORG, dual disk full organic. I had received this kit from UPS on a Wednesday, inspected the parts on delivery and noticed that the clutch fork was damaged during shipping as it was gouged and bent by the flywheel teeth. Called South Bend Thursday morning and I had a new fork by Saturday afternoon. I can't say enough about the customer service I've received from south bend, night and day difference from Phoenix Friction as they finally processed my deducted refund after 3 weeks. To my surprise the clutch release bearing was a Japanese mfg. Koyo CT52A-1. This bearing alone assured me that this kit was worth its weight and would last for years to come. I had originally before I started this thread been looking for a Japanese mfg. bearing. and I could not pin down a number for the life of me and settled for the Timken 614114. There is another thread I started looking to pin down numbers for rear axle hub Japanese bearings and races. I was not able to find one and settled for the Timken's provided in the Torque King 4x4 kit as I needed the job done. The front locking hubs I installed came with Japanese mfg. Koyo bearings with Timken races. I'll follow up after referencing those part numbers.
An apples to apples comparison of the clutch around the block up to third gear. I don't have that horrid noise that I had from Phoenix Friction's Kevlar clutch. It's night and day quiet, I can hear the engine which before was drowned out by the noise of the clutch. My saga with PF came to a head for me when I shipped them back the Kevlar clutch and PP to have them "examine and test" it. After a week of calling to follow up one what they found; I essentially got shafted with a BS response along the lines of "nothing is wrong with our product that we could find, Your transmission must be worn and this clutch to aggressive" This was the answer I got after a toasted 350.00 fly wheel, and 50.00 dollars to ship it back to them. I'll own the discounted refund, it was stupid of me to throw away the components I didn't use before verifying their product worked. But I learned the hard way with PF. The 674.00 refund from the 742.00 of the original product netted me 274.00 after the damage and shipping incurred on my dime with their product.
Shift point is a good bit higher as well as the engagement on this clutch, it will take some getting used to. I can't comment on the notchyness of the shifts as I haven't broken in the short shifter or clutch in yet. Thus far I am very pleased with South Bend Clutch's product and thoroughly regret not heeding the advice of others and choosing PF.
Lastly I'd like to pose this question, At what cost was this job worth it? Beyond the parts, labor or tools. What is it worth for you to do this job? I started this at 8am eager and anxious for everything to go right and to drive this truck after 3 months of extensive work in down time. My friend and I were talking about plans for dinner later on that I would've treat him to as a small thanks on top of the many favors and time that I now owed him for his assistance. He wanted to go to Red Robin... I was somber by 10PM as the second attempt was finishing up, there was no excitement, just reflection on how wrong my focus was to overlook my lack of preparedness to do this job safely and efficiently; that ended up causing harm to someone I asked for help. If the padding on his shoes was any thinner he could've been in a cast and his screams of pain for those seconds that assembly pinned him down could've been a lot louder. This isn't Chris Fix's mustang's transmission, it's an NV5600. It's a 3/4 truck, not a Miata. This was text book "Shake hands with Danger" There's no amount of pride or satisfaction in this driveway job for me like other projects. Just a whole lot of what "If's" and why didn't "I's". I don't think this job was worth it given the tools and equipment I had at my disposal. I failed on multiple fronts. This was an experience. Feel free to learn from mine.
DBM,
Wow, Ouch!, &&& yup stabbing a big trans on your back that's tough duty. Period.
Kudos to you for an honest no holds barred look at a pretty bad day. Hopefully all gets better from here.
Same trans different clutch and the nasty noise is gone. OK that pretty much clinches that other disc was not dampening or filtering at all. Why? A hands on exam of old disc would be a start.
Gary
Wow, Ouch!, &&& yup stabbing a big trans on your back that's tough duty. Period.
Kudos to you for an honest no holds barred look at a pretty bad day. Hopefully all gets better from here.
Same trans different clutch and the nasty noise is gone. OK that pretty much clinches that other disc was not dampening or filtering at all. Why? A hands on exam of old disc would be a start.
Gary
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
Got out on the roads for the first time today to drop off scrap and oil. Mixture of Highway and city driving.
Found that 1-4th gears are much more notchy and I can't down shift to 4th consistently from medium to moderate speeds. 7/10 times I down shift to 4th it'll grind or feel like a wall, third is similar but without grinding just more effort to get it in.
4th gear is the most notchy followed by 3rd. All shifts take more muscle. 5th and 6th are the easiest to shift up and down. Driving feels like a chore with the amount of force im using to select gears.
Ambient temp today was 90*, using Amsoil manual synchromesh fluid. Trans temp averaged its normal operating range from 160-175.
Engine off clutch held in and pulling shifter into 4th I can hear and feel a tick in the shifter before it slides into gear. Like a detent ball finding it's notch. Not replicated in any other gear.
What are the chances that something internally is out of place or damaged from the drop? I'm awaiting a call back from SBC to see if they have any insight.
Found that 1-4th gears are much more notchy and I can't down shift to 4th consistently from medium to moderate speeds. 7/10 times I down shift to 4th it'll grind or feel like a wall, third is similar but without grinding just more effort to get it in.
4th gear is the most notchy followed by 3rd. All shifts take more muscle. 5th and 6th are the easiest to shift up and down. Driving feels like a chore with the amount of force im using to select gears.
Ambient temp today was 90*, using Amsoil manual synchromesh fluid. Trans temp averaged its normal operating range from 160-175.
Engine off clutch held in and pulling shifter into 4th I can hear and feel a tick in the shifter before it slides into gear. Like a detent ball finding it's notch. Not replicated in any other gear.
What are the chances that something internally is out of place or damaged from the drop? I'm awaiting a call back from SBC to see if they have any insight.
Couple ideas.
Raise one rear wheel. Engine off. Select any gear. Push clutch pedal all the way down. Helper puts gloves on and rotates raised wheel. It should turn with some felt load. You are now rotating clutch disc, trans, prop shaft, axle all the way to axle bearings and rotor.
Now continue rotating tire slowly raise clutch pedal. At some point helper cannot rotate tire.
Repeat several times observing how far off of the floor pedal is when clutch starts to engage.
Repeat same eval but tire on ground again noting distance off floor when clutch catches.
Be accurate in measuring.
Raise one rear wheel. Engine off. Select any gear. Push clutch pedal all the way down. Helper puts gloves on and rotates raised wheel. It should turn with some felt load. You are now rotating clutch disc, trans, prop shaft, axle all the way to axle bearings and rotor.
Now continue rotating tire slowly raise clutch pedal. At some point helper cannot rotate tire.
Repeat several times observing how far off of the floor pedal is when clutch starts to engage.
Repeat same eval but tire on ground again noting distance off floor when clutch catches.
Be accurate in measuring.
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
I'll give it a try when I adjust the parking brakes. What is this supposed to measure? preload of the hydraulic assembly on the clutch fork? This was the same SBC Hydro used on the first install, surely it can't be one time use once it's set?
While driving the clutch engagement is very high, but I've been shifting with the pedal on the floor and still get grinds downshifting to 4th. From a stop letting out in second gear there is a noise like a screech or scrape that I can feel on the clutch pedal and hear in the bell housing. This only happens letting out in second.
These hydraulic clutch release systems don't have brains, software, eyes, ears or taste buds. You push the pedal MC creates PSI and flow that goes to slave cyl and it moves X distance based on volume of fluid coming into it.
Not much else. Not turning over all cards, yet.
I can take one completely apart pistons out and all. Reassemble, do the magic thingy and it's back to let's roll.
Not much else. Not turning over all cards, yet.
I can take one completely apart pistons out and all. Reassemble, do the magic thingy and it's back to let's roll.
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
Alright
I'll mention this on the follow up call with south bend tomorrow. Would it make sense since the hydro was originally installed on a single disc system that once the straps are broken its married to it? I had to compress the plunger to re assemble it on the bell housing.
I'll mention this on the follow up call with south bend tomorrow. Would it make sense since the hydro was originally installed on a single disc system that once the straps are broken its married to it? I had to compress the plunger to re assemble it on the bell housing.
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
Called SBC yesterday and talked to L, Told him everything I could remember from install. He mentioned that they don't recommend grease on the splines because it can gum up the discs as they slide ( I greased the splines). He also mentioned to perform this hydraulic test , is this conducive to the same measures of your test? L agrees that the SC being on a single disc and then on a dual disk has no ill affect.
At this point I don't have any more time to trouble shoot this truck in my driveway. I'm spent mentally, physically, and financially. I'm calling South Bend today and asking if they have any Diesel Performance shops or transmission shops who are familiar with their products in NC that they would recommend.
Does anyone have any recommendations from personal experience in NC? If they specialize in manual trucks the better. I really want to avoid having my time and money wasted being BS'ed around like with PF. I'm considering MB Diesel Performance in Gold Hill. Up till now no shop has ever touched my truck, every item, repair, and issue I've had has been documented in 3 daily logged note books for every key cycle since ownership and handled by my own hands in my driveway. I need a shop with competence to look at my truck and not talk down to me like I'm some 20 year old with a 6" lift, rock lights, and 24s. To say it pains me to hand over my keys to someone else is an understatement.
DBM,
The recommendation for testing as described, that's up to the vendor to dictate.
The test that I'd recommend uses same tool but in a different approach. Test the hydro's. Remove SC, remove push rod and dust boot. No worries nothing is going to pop out just DO NOT push on clutch pedal.
Now attach the puller across the SC flange. Turn screw in contact SC piston. Turn in about 3/8-1/2" or so. Position is not an issue.
Next position head under dash, get comfortable, bring pencil and flashlight. With the SC blocked and supported under truck use one finger and push on clutch pedal just light pressure. Repeat several times. Get the feel on push release. Now find a spot on the MC push rod, mark with pencil, push pedal one finger, hold and mark push rod again. Make sure to use same reference and marking technique.
You are trying to see how far the push rod moves between pedal up and 1st feel of yup we're making pressure.
ANY AIR in system will increase this dimension. Depending on which style MC your truck has will dictate how far a fully bled MC push rod travels. 1/16" - 1/8" and that's good more than that = air. Period. Any reduction in bearing stroke by wasting travel compressing air is unacceptable.
This is a trans in place pretty easy and definitive test.
I just measured my total pedal travel with a tape hooked onto the pedal, 8". From the floor to beginning of the friction zone or 1st movement of truck 3". That is a fully releasing normal no tricks or tweaks system.
How far in inches does your pedal come up before the beginning of the truck moving? The "friction zone"?
The std MC on a 3rd gen uses a very nearly impossible to bleed MC design, the tappet valve type. 2nd gen uses a slightly easier piston port design. Both do not respond to bleeding but both can respond to BURPING if air is detected using the above blocked SC testing.
I do no accept ANY air in clutch hydro's. Battled that with customers for years and years cause they all wanted to use brake bleeding tools and techniques. Nope, these ain't brakes.
Do you want to see YT video of this?
Gary
The recommendation for testing as described, that's up to the vendor to dictate.
The test that I'd recommend uses same tool but in a different approach. Test the hydro's. Remove SC, remove push rod and dust boot. No worries nothing is going to pop out just DO NOT push on clutch pedal.
Now attach the puller across the SC flange. Turn screw in contact SC piston. Turn in about 3/8-1/2" or so. Position is not an issue.
Next position head under dash, get comfortable, bring pencil and flashlight. With the SC blocked and supported under truck use one finger and push on clutch pedal just light pressure. Repeat several times. Get the feel on push release. Now find a spot on the MC push rod, mark with pencil, push pedal one finger, hold and mark push rod again. Make sure to use same reference and marking technique.
You are trying to see how far the push rod moves between pedal up and 1st feel of yup we're making pressure.
ANY AIR in system will increase this dimension. Depending on which style MC your truck has will dictate how far a fully bled MC push rod travels. 1/16" - 1/8" and that's good more than that = air. Period. Any reduction in bearing stroke by wasting travel compressing air is unacceptable.
This is a trans in place pretty easy and definitive test.
I just measured my total pedal travel with a tape hooked onto the pedal, 8". From the floor to beginning of the friction zone or 1st movement of truck 3". That is a fully releasing normal no tricks or tweaks system.
How far in inches does your pedal come up before the beginning of the truck moving? The "friction zone"?
The std MC on a 3rd gen uses a very nearly impossible to bleed MC design, the tappet valve type. 2nd gen uses a slightly easier piston port design. Both do not respond to bleeding but both can respond to BURPING if air is detected using the above blocked SC testing.
I do no accept ANY air in clutch hydro's. Battled that with customers for years and years cause they all wanted to use brake bleeding tools and techniques. Nope, these ain't brakes.
Do you want to see YT video of this?
Gary
Darkbloodmon
TDR MEMBER
Sure I'll check out the video. I don't think I'll be able to replicate either test though; none of my pullers will fit and I don't have anything substantive I could fabricate with.
Waiting on L to call back from South Bend after leaving a message. I gave MB Diesel a call and spoke to the owner McCoy. First impressions inspired alot of confidence, waiting on his follow up labor quote. He estimates 6-8 on removal and replacement of the trans if it has to come back out, since I've already got the parts and they're still under warranty I'll save some there. He says he recently within the last week or so received another phone call trouble shooting about the same issue I described on another NV5600 truck, the guy who called didn't come into the shop he was just calling looking for insight on the issue. MB hasn't gotten a follow up call from him.
Ultimately the results are either the Hydro is bad, something in the bell housing mechanically is wrong, or the trans has internal damage after being dropped twice. 90 day warranty on the hydro that was installed on 4/27/21 and the dual disk was installed on 6/26/21. for sanity's sake I checked pictures of the prepped bell housing and reviewed my log dated 6/19/21 - I removed the washer from the ball stud and greased all contact points and verified that it all moved as it should.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
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