Towing capacities

[retirednak]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section,I also used the searched and didn't find a thing I need to know what the 5th wheel towing capacities is on my '03 4x4 DRW QC with 373 gears,camper package. We have actively started checking out the 5 vrs. I thought it was 20K LBS,but I'm sure I'm wrong. I know Mopar has a safety margin with towing, Any ideas on what kind of margins one could safely tow over the max?

 

[HBarlow]

The 20,000 lb. figure is probably about right for your truck but that's gross combined weight, not trailer weight. GCWR means 20,000 lbs. is total weight for your truck and trailer when loaded and ready to roll.

MOPAR does NOT provide a safety margin for towing. That is an internet myth.

Dodge's factory recommended gross combined weight figure is established by Dodge engineers after testing the trucks loaded to max rated weight. They consider load starting ability on grades and ability to maintain an adequate speed up the grade without overheating or breaking a driveline component.

Dodge Rams will tolerate hauling more than the factory specs allow for many thousands of miles but you can expect very slow acceleration, completely inadequate truck brakes if your trailer brakes become inoperative, and early failure of the 47RE automatic. Performance will be marginal if overloaded. The Cummins engines can pull twice that but our Dodges don't have the gearing or brakes for heavier loads.

You would be much more comfortable and satisfied with the towing experience if you keep trailer weight down to 12,000 lbs. Your gross combined weight will exceed factory specs slightly at that figure.

I tow a 14,000 lb fiver with my 3500 C&C with 4. 10 gears and Aisin six speed automatic. I consider 14,000 lbs. the maximum weight I will tow on a regular basis.

Sure, your truck or mine will tow a 16,000 or 18,000 lb. fifth wheel. The engine and the truck chassis are capable of hauling it. But the experience is not fun. RV travel is supposed to be about fun, relaxation, enjoying the ride and the scenery. A load that works the truck and the driver to death is not fun in my opinion.

 

[Jim W]

I agree with H. Barlow, on his reply to you the only thing I can add is the following information on an 04 Dodge DRW truck. I always check the following web site by changing the model year for towing and weights, allowed for our trucks. Seems that I could not access the 2003 truck year, since this is not maintained anymore by Dodge. Here is the web site; it will take some digging to get the required information on 04 trucks compare to the 08 and later trucks. http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2004/dr/drmo.pdf

The 04 DRW, QC, 4X4, 3:73 gears can safely tow for a manual transmission 13,250 GVW trailer, combine weight of 21,000 LBS.

The auto can tow 13,450 GVW trailer and a combine weight of 21,000 LBS.

One item that is interesting for the 04 truck, Dodge recommends that a exhaust brake be added for towing any trailer weighting more then 10,000 LBS.

Sorry, I could not find information on the 03 truck, but I think the 03 and 04 will be very similar to each other. Since nothing was mention in the list of major changes between the two years on this site.

Jim

 

[retirednak]

Thanks guys,looks like we'll be looking at smaller trailers. The one we like best weighs in at 17K lbs. I guess I would need to jump up to a med duty truck to get the one we want and I sure as hell don't want another truck payment.



I planed on installing an exhaust brake when I have my transmission rebuilt this winter.



Speaking of exhaust brakes, I want to go with Pac because I had one on my last Ram and was pretty happy with it. Has anyone heard good or bad or is using Banks exhaust brake?.



Thanks again fellas-Casey

 

[jelag]

We towed a 20K lb work trailer for 250K miles with an 04, 3500 with air bags to level it and exhaust brake..... and I currently tow a 15K lb 5er with my 05 set up the same way... .

As I get older I see my reaction time getting slower... so I'm staying away from more than 15K lbs of trailer weight... .

 

[retirednak]

I want to make sure that I'm not over doing it since I will be starting out here in Alaska and the Alcan Hwy sucks and is even worse towing. I lost a fuel pump in my last Cummins out in the middle of bum fu!K Alcan Hwy. Make matters worse,it was in winter and at night. No cell reception,only the occational 18 wheeler would drive by and blow snow on me. #@$%! Finally an old trapper stopped and we rigged up a cheap electric gas pump to get me going. 9 hrs later with frozen hands and nuts I was on my way. I have heard stories of people breaking down,hitch hike to town for parts and come back to a stripped vehicle. I want to be in the safe zone towing and not have to worry and be prepaired in case of the oh s!!t if it comes up.



How ever a nice new med duty truck would look good on me.

 

[CUMMINZ]

One of the good things going for you is you have a dually. Don't give up your search for info to help you be safe.

 

[Dick Langendorff]

You may try, trailerlife.com and check tow ratings. Pull down the numbers for the '03 and see what they show.

Trailer Life gets all of their numbers from the big 3.



Other than that, I can't agree more with everyone who answered your question.

12,000 to 14,000 gvw rating for the trailer should probably be your guide line.

 

[FDrake]

Look in the manual that came with the truck. It should show the truck's GCWR in there. The GVWR is on the door sticker. You will find with a SRW truck that the trailer weight will usually exceed the GVWR before it will exceed the GCWR. But a dually is the other way around. The limiter with duals is the total towing capacity.

The truck should weigh around about 7200# with the hitch in, full fuel and all the passengers you will travel with. The other thing to consider is the EMPTY weight of the trailer. My Alfa was rated at 14. 500 GVW but when we used it is actually weighed in at 12,440#. So before you decide NOT to buy that trailer have it weighed so you know what you are dealing with. It MAY work for you. It really depends on the GCWR as the book shows and the truck's true weight. Good luck.
Frank

 

[retirednak]

This is what is great with this website,nothing but helpful info. No BS or bad info,everybody looking out for each other!

 

[HBarlow]

Casey,

I don't think any of us were factoring in Alaska travel in our discussion above, we were just discussing numbers and factory ratings.

If I lived and traveled extensively in AK as you do I would certainly stay within Dodge's factory ratings when selecting a fifth wheel. Steep grades and rough roads under repair are pretty common in the environment you will tow in.

If you are planning to purchase a new trailer I would consider ordering it from the factory with higher rated axles and springs. My HH 5th in '07 used 6,000 lb. Dexter axles and springs as OEM but NuWa offered an upgrade to 7,000 lb. axles and springs for a very modest charge. I selected the 7,000 lb. rated running gear. I've seen too many big fifth wheels being pulled down the highway with the axle endss obviously bent and the tires canted inward at the top.

Have you looked at Artic Fox and HitchHiker fivers. Either the Artic Fox or HitchHiker LS NuWa Industries, Inc. would be good choices for your needs. Both are intended for colder climates and have good strong frames and Dexter axles.

 

[CUMMINZ]

Change out to higher capacity axles and springs is a good idea or do like HB suggested and order with them.



Custom Built Hitch Crafter & Demco 2007 RAM 3500 6. 7L

 

[Prairie Dog]

I can tell you that my 03 3500 SRW is 13,700 so you would be very close to that.

 

[retirednak]

If you are planning to purchase a new trailer I would consider ordering it from the factory with higher rated axles and springs. My HH 5th in '07 used 6,000 lb. Dexter axles and springs as OEM but NuWa offered an upgrade to 7,000 lb. axles and springs for a very modest charge. I selected the 7,000 lb. rated running gear. I've seen too many big fifth wheels being pulled down the highway with the axle endss obviously bent and the tires canted inward at the top.



Have you looked at Artic Fox and HitchHiker fivers. Either the Artic Fox or HitchHiker LS NuWa Industries, Inc. would be good choices for your needs. Both are intended for colder climates and have good strong frames and Dexter axles. [/QUOTE]





I know what you mean about about bent axles and tires canted. I was over at a friends house looking at a new trailer his brother pulled up. Box axles were canted,he had to buy 2 complete sets of tires on the way up because the alignment was so far off it wore the tread off. After crawling under the trailer we discovered that the suspension was completely shot and both axles were also bent. The trailer wasn't loaded heavy and he didn't haul *** up the Alcan. It was under rated axles and a junk suspension that might have been border line OK for hwy use in the lower 48. After my friend rebuilt the suspension,his brother sold it for a huge lose after only getting to sleep in it maybe 8 times on the way up. He wanted to travel AK. to see the state and go fishing. After 30 yrs here,I've seen numerus other RVers along side the roads broken down.



As far as 5 vers go,we like the NEWMAR line,but haven't decided as we have to travel to the lower 48 to check the RVs out since nobody carries a decent built RV up here.

 

[HBarlow]

Casey,

I just saw a very nice looking used Newmar Mountaineer fiver sitting in the tiny farming town of Idalou, TX just east of Lubbock yesterday when I went to Lubbock for an eye exam. I didn't stop to look at it but it did have some info, probably at least a phone number taped on the front.

It is a fairly large one but at a glance just driving by it is a beauty. It is certainly one I would be interested in looking at closer if I was in the market for one. I have no idea what condition it is in or what the private seller is asking for it.

You might check Lubbock, TX craigs. list to see if it shows up. If you are really interested in it I'll drive over and look at it and gather some info for you.

It's not real close to Alaska for sure.

 

[RVTRKN]

This question is asked a lot concerning trailer weight, and you will see lots of arguments about it. But the only numbers you need to concern yourself with are the axle ratings and because your in a remote area you should get the highest trailer axle ratings you can find per the ratio of weight. An example, you can buy a luxury 5ver with 17K GVWR but if the 5ver weighs at 16K you will be close to the max ratings. Arctic Fox 5vers are not the high end on the luxury department, but the ratio per GVWR and actual weight are just about the best that I have found, don't mean to start an argument just using them as an example.



You should calculate what pin weight that will not overload your Steer/front and Drive/Rear axle weight ratings and don't forget about your cargo, persons, hitch (can be heavy) and fuel weights that will add to the vehicle. You should set up your truck as you would use it towing the 5ver you want, then weigh it. Now calculate what is left over for the pin weight.



When looking at the 5vers, check the brochure's for the pin weights (dont forget to calculate and add the tank weights full) then when you settle on the 5ver you want, BEFORE you purchase it, have it weighed to confirm those numbers.



Remember, staying within the axle weight ratings are the only legal way to pull a 5ver heavy, or any trailer for that matter, all axle brakes are rated for the axle weight rating they have and should be of no concern when going over Dodges GCVWR, but read the next paragraph to help you decide for yourself.



I was pulling a heavy triple axle toy hauler when the trailer brake pin shorted out to the tail light pin in the trailer plug causing the trailer brakes to lock up (full 12V) when I hit my brakes. After trouble shooting, my choices were either hire a flat bed trailer to haul the 5ver (very expensive) or disconnect the trailer brakes at the axles so I still had running lights and tow it another 300 miles to its destination. I chose to tow it, and at just about 23K GCVW, I just drove slow (55MPH) and kept a larger safety margin between me and the vehicles in front. I also had to drive in heavy city traffic at times. I had no problems or near accidents, just took my time. Remember that was an extreme case and did what I had to do to get through the situation. That is something you should keep in mind when you go over Dodges GCVWR.

 

[retirednak]

As much as I would prefer to buy used, letting the seller taking the hit as soon as they drive off the lot,I can't get my better half to go along with it. She wants to buy new so she can pick the colors "we" want,along with the other things in the RV. I've looked at a couple 5 ers that have very little use and look show room new,no luck getting the wife to go along making the purchase. We'll vacation in the spring and check out some of the factories building the RV's we're interested in.



Thanks for the offer to check the camper out in Idalou.

 

[HBarlow]

Is Newmar still building fifth wheels? I thought they were another of the high quality luxury RV manufacturers that folded when the economy tanked. I don't think it is possible to buy new when you like Newmars.

A new Newmar fiver would have had a retail MSRP sticker of $150,000 or better when they were being built. And very heavy. Nice units for full timers but really in medium duty truck territory for most of their models.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking the only manufacturer still building top of the line luxury fifth wheel RVs is NuWa with the HitchHiker Champagne. Champagnes are nice but a bit below the traditional luxury fifth wheel market.

 

[retirednak]

I just recieved a brochure on the Torrey Pine line by NEWMAR a few days ago,I thought they were out of business also. I'm waiting on a brochure from NuWa. Your right about the luxury line being gone,most of what we've seen are for the weekend camping crews. If we can't find what we're looking for,we may step up to a class A w/Cummins power. That is if my wife doesn't change my mind again. :-laf I would really like to find a luxury 5ver that I could also carry a side by side UTV in. Most of the toy haulers up here are strickly weekend rigs that are nice enough,but are no where near what one would call luxury. I doubt I'll find anything like I want,so I'll have to make up something I can drive up the side of the bed and haul it there. Sled Bed makes something like this,I've seen a couple 5 vers from the lower 48 with something like this.

 

[RVTRKN]

If money is not a major concern trying to stay within your 3500 Axle ratings, have you considered purchasing a 5500 C&C 4X4? They are medium duty and they cost less than a Class A coach. If you want a high end 5ver (est. 150K) and buy a 5500 4X4 loaded (est. 65K), that is a lot less than a high end Class A coach would cost. That would allow you to "rough it" with a very capable 4X4 and it would give you more options on the bed configuration, as well as raising your GCVWR.



I have several reasons why I like 5vers over Class A coaches. 1) Unhitched you have a "get around" vehicle in stead having to tow your "get around" vehicle. 2) Maintenance costs for the Class A coaches are very high. The axles are basically in the Heavy duty truck class and would cost a small fortune to maintain and repair. You also have two vehicles now to maintain, the Coach and the towed vehicle. 3) If licensed properly, you can tow doubles. 4) When the tow vehicle is a 4X4 it gives you the option of setting up your camp in remote areas. (Alaska ) 5) The cost of the truck and 5ver are less than half of a high end luxury Class A coach. (est. 500K)





I just love spending other peoples money :-laf