Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Turbo & Exhaust Brake Upgrades

[Silver_Ram]

I am looking to upgrade my turbo, (Phatshaft) and with the turbo upgrade comes the need for a new exhaust brake. I will be adding a SB clutch next month.



The truck is used for towing my 5th wheel and occasional long drives. I had 3 injectors go bad, so when it was cheaper to add the 300 hp RV injectors than stock replacements, I went with the 300 hp. I noticed the egt's come up quicker. I am looking to cool things down, not make a bunch more power.



Is the Phatshaft 62/12 or 62/14 going to work or do I go Super Phatshaft? I want to keep the power in the low to mid range.



The 2nd part is finding an exhaust brake that will work with the new turbo. I have the Jacobs now, but it won't work on a bigger turbo. The only option I can really see is PacBrake's PRXB. They have a direct mount (C44064) that looks like the flapper was moved from the elbow to the downpipe. http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/L5822. PDF.



For anyone that has upgraded their turbo: does the downpipe look like it's for an HX40 mount? The tech guy said it can be mounted with a marmon flange.



Or, has anyone installed an inline PRXB in the exhaust pipe?

 

[PC12Driver]

Keep in mind that larger turbos will cool off egts at the high end of the rpm scale at the expense of temps and performance on the bottom end. It won't be cooler across the board. For example, my first hybrid 40/35 wouldn't wake up until about 2,000 rpms while towing. That made for some really smokey, poor performance until I broke 2k and it started making boost. Considering that I would rarely hit that rpm at cruise speed in 6th, highway performance was poor (egts would quickly rise past 1,200* with slight hills - frequent downshifting or leaving it in 5th was a must). Not fun. My stock turbo had much better cooling with the trailer in tow (especially the case as the altitude increased).



I've since upgraded to the HTT 62/12, which comes in about 100 rpm earlier and is much easier to live with. Still, the HX35/12 tows much better. If I was going to tow more frequently with my truck I'd probably switch back to the stocker, or maybe move over to a PDR35 (little bigger compressor & keep the exhaust brake). At most, I'd go with a HTBG/12 from HTT. Bigger isn't necessarily better for towing! (unless you're going with twins)



So with that being said, how hot are your egts? You will lose bottom end performance when going with a larger turbo. If you're only getting a little warm, take a small step with the turbo and minimize your bottom-end loss. Especially since you have 315s. Big tires and big turbos make for poor launches.



Or, how about a cam? I'd think you could get one installed for less than the price either of the turbos you're looking at (significantly less if you do it yourself). You'll drop egts on top, gain bottom-end response, improve your milage, and can still keep your stock turbo/exhaust brake.



Sorry to not directly answer your question, but I hate to see anyone spend big money on a turbo and then find out that the performance doesn't match the hype (been there, done that). Turbos aren't one-size-fits-all. Pick one that fits your application.

 

[Cummins724]

My brother just bought a htb2 62/65/14 & he runs rv275's, Adrenaline. Perfect towing combo & egts are well in check. I had him order it with a 3rd gen exhaust housing, 2nd gen compressor housing & I fabbed up a 3rd gen brake. I have done 2 of them now & the combo works great! You can buy a 3rd gen brake off ebay once in a while for $300 new. Here is a link to my thread explaining how to do this. https://www.turbodieselregister.com...002/167825-3rd-gen-exhaust-brake-2nd-gen.html

 

[Silver_Ram]

Cummins 724: nice idea - all I need is a 04. 5+ brake, I 'm already running the other stuff. Hopefully it will fit with an NV5600.



PC12Driver: On my last trip through the mountains, with the Juice on level 2 & a long 8% grade, I backed out at 1400 degrees and rode it out at 1300-1350. I probably could have gone higher than 1400. Flat ground is 1000, but most of my pulls are through the mountains, so it doesn't stay flat for long. I live at an elevation of 4400 feet and some of the climbs have been above 10,000 feet elevation. Before I did the RV injectors, I had no problems at all. After the injectors, I noticed the heat comes up quick.



I have put three II Phatshaft 62's on 3rd Gen trucks (manuals) & no exhaust brakes, but have yet to do a 2nd Gen truck. All of the 3rd gen trucks dropped about 200 degrees at the top & drivability seems good.



Anybody else with advice or suggestions, especially HO/6 spd owners, I would appreciate.

 

[icman95]

I have a some of the similar parts as you and also built mine for towing. One of my major criteria when doing my mods was to keep the original Jacobs because I liked it so much. I thought I should change the turbo, so I found High Tech Turbo in your state. I sent them my stocker and they made a hybrid out of it. I have the same info to report as PC12Driver regarding not spooling up quickly, etc. , but if you learn to work around it it's not too bad. Just got back from a long weekend towing the RV and once things get going it's no problem. At around 19k lbs total we were pulling hills on the highway at 75. Just have to be careful and drive by the EGT's. It's not perfect and if I had to do it all over again, I might keep my stock turbo and wait to see if I really needed to change it in the first place.



Also, I really love the Jacobs. I've had it since my truck was new and it has never failed me. Slows my truck like dropping an anchor when towing. I drive some commercial trucks at work that have the Pacbrakes and we've been having some trouble with them. After mentioning this trouble on a thread here in the TDR, their warranty manager, Harold, chimed in with a generous offer to help out. This was back in May this year. After talking with my company's owner and settling on a couse of action, he failed to follow up with his promises. I contacted him again through the TDR and again, promises, but no action. He hasn't responded to email or a phone call in the last 3 weeks. Perhaps he's on vacation, but then why no customer support since May? My company purchases dozens of his product rather than the one or two that TDR members might individually buy. I would like to think this was important to his company. I guess not. I can't recommend his product, so do what ever you can to keep your Jacobs.



Here's their website. Maybe you can call them to see if they have one to fit your needs. I know they make inline ones for commercial applications.

Jacobs Vehicle Systems - Home

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Silver Ram,

If you live at 4000'+ elevation adding a bigger turbo will be the wrong thing to do for trying to cool down temps while towing. I see you already have the intake air and exhaust taken care of. What you need is a Smarty. I tow up to 26,000 gross and even pulling in big mountains it is near impossible for me to reach 1300* (pre-turbo, of course). Smarty helps the bottom end which is what you stated you want to do. It not only spools sooner but also somehow helps keep the exhaust temps cooler. There is a 30 day money back policy on Smarty so why not try one? Less $$ and much easier install than a turbo AND you won't have to replace your engine brake. On the SBC clutch I highly recommend the OFE, perfect for the power you have, load you pull, and MUCH easier to back up a trailer with!!

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[Cummins724]

Silver Ram,



If you live at 4000'+ elevation adding a bigger turbo will be the wrong thing to do for trying to cool down temps while towing. I see you already have the intake air and exhaust taken care of. What you need is a Smarty. I tow up to 26,000 gross and even pulling in big mountains it is near impossible for me to reach 1300* (pre-turbo, of course). Smarty helps the bottom end which is what you stated you want to do. It not only spools sooner but also somehow helps keep the exhaust temps cooler. There is a 30 day money back policy on Smarty so why not try one? Less $$ and much easier install than a turbo AND you won't have to replace your engine brake. On the SBC clutch I highly recommend the OFE, perfect for the power you have, load you pull, and MUCH easier to back up a trailer with!!



Godspeed,

Trent

The Smarty is a great choice, that would probably work great for him. My brother also ran the Smarty for a year with the rv275's, still got high egts towing our 15k+ trailer though. That was with the old software, the new revo is much cooler while towing. He now has the Adrenaline & before he installed the 62/65/14, he would set the pulse monitor to defuel at 1250* & had no egt problems. I do alot of towing & Smarty is great for towing, but on the fly adjustability comes in handy many of times.



I will second the Con ofe clutch, my brother also has that & it is silky smooth.

 

[jkidd]

8% and towing is a lot to ask of the engine, its going to get hot. The 57mm s300 is good for your mods (superB/HTBG). It worked better for me than the HX35/40, but it is also a 4" outlet and will be more expensive for the exhaust brake.

BTW: Industrial Injection is raising its prices Oct 20th. HTT is a bit more expensive than I. I. currently.

The OFE has been good to me.

 

[PC12Driver]

I have put three II Phatshaft 62's on 3rd Gen trucks (manuals) & no exhaust brakes, but have yet to do a 2nd Gen truck. All of the 3rd gen trucks dropped about 200 degrees at the top & drivability seems good.

Have you towed with any of those? Just asking, 'cause there's a huge difference in how the engine behaves unloaded vs. loaded with a larger turbo. And that 200* drop on the top is going to be at least a 200* gain under 1900 rpm or so. If you're running 1000* now in cruise, you won't like the temps with the 62 (assuming you're running less than 2k rpms). You'll end up with a powerband like a Ford 6. 0 - it'll pull really hard over 2k, but sag under that (and run hot).



Two things that are certain about towing in the mountains: EGTs will run higher because there is less oxygen at altitude (there's less for the turbo to grab, which results in less energy to drive the turbo - even a stock truck will run hot), and larger turbos will aggravate this condition (need more energy to run the compressor and there isn't as much available up there - thus even more rpms are needed).



JKidd is on the right path with the HTBG. Your temps and HP aren't out of range of that turbo. I know of a fellow running about 425hp and won't hit 1350* wide open (and that's with a 12cm housing). Going larger will only shift your powerband up unnecessarily. Wasted $ and bottom-end power.



But, did I mention that a cam would fit your needs perfectly?

 

[dspoon]

(PC12Driver) Can you tell me what kind of cam people are running and can anyone else chime in on this topic? Are cams really good for towing? Does it help with egt temps??

 

[PC12Driver]

(PC12Driver) Can you tell me what kind of cam people are running and can anyone else chime in on this topic? Are cams really good for towing? Does it help with egt temps??

Yep, cams are great for towing. They'll drop temps across the board (from 200* full-throttle to about 50* when cruising empty). The charger will light a little sooner in the rpm band, and you'll probably pick up some milage as well. Pretty much a win/win/win. The only downside is that the install is a bit more invasive than most want to attempt. Not hard, just that there's a bunch of stuff that has to come off to get to it.



I bought a Haisley Street Cam because he was cutting fire rings in my head at the time, and it was a little bit of an impulse buy. At the time it was only $425, and since a good part of my engine was already apart I figured I give it a shot. Glad I did. My last dyno was 465hp, and I can't remember the last time I hit 1350*. That's running my HTB2 at less than 40psi and with a 12cm housing. So the turbo is right in it's sweet spot, and between the 12cm housing and the cam I have nice bottom-end responsiveness (for that size of turbo) and good smoke control.



Mine is a reground, which generally isn't accepted as being ideal (wears more quickly). Had the F1 Helix2 been around back then, I probably would have went that route (new, not a regrind, around $500).

 

[Cummins724]

Cummins 724: nice idea - all I need is a 04. 5+ brake, I 'm already running the other stuff. Hopefully it will fit with an NV5600.



.

You will also need a downpipe from a 04. 5 up CTD, so that you can cut the flange off & weld it onto your downpipe. Don't foget the clamps.

 

[Silver_Ram]

I came up with a pretty good combo I hope - II Phat Shaft 62/14 & I am gonna use a Pac-Brake PRXB.



The PRXB is an in-line brake that can installed in the HX40 downpipe with 4" flanges, the actuator rod will run the same direction as the downpipe. I will have on-board air and can hook it into my air bags as well. There is an upgrade 100% duty compressor upgrade.



Now I just need a little cash... ... ... .....

 

[PC12Driver]

If you want to keep your power in the low-mid range, why the 14 housing? The 12 will flow plenty for your needs and will bring the power in 100-200 rpm earlier. It'll make towing in 6th easier (especially in the higher elevations).

 

[Silver_Ram]

After talking with Brett at Industrial Injection, I am gonna try the 14 housing.



My truck has 4. 10 gears & even with the 35" tires, the gearing is low. If I don't like the combo I can go to the 12 housing.

 

[dsherman]

Three bad injectors

I am looking to upgrade my turbo, (Phatshaft) and with the turbo upgrade comes the need for a new exhaust brake. I will be adding a SB clutch next month.



The truck is used for towing my 5th wheel and occasional long drives. I had 3 injectors go bad, so when it was cheaper to add the 300 hp RV injectors than stock replacements, I went with the 300 hp. I noticed the egt's come up quicker. I am looking to cool things down, not make a bunch more power.



Is the Phatshaft 62/12 or 62/14 going to work or do I go Super Phatshaft? I want to keep the power in the low to mid range.



The 2nd part is finding an exhaust brake that will work with the new turbo. I have the Jacobs now, but it won't work on a bigger turbo. The only option I can really see is PacBrake's PRXB. They have a direct mount (C44064) that looks like the flapper was moved from the elbow to the downpipe. http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/L5822. PDF.



For anyone that has upgraded their turbo: does the downpipe look like it's for an HX40 mount? The tech guy said it can be mounted with a marmon flange.



Or, has anyone installed an inline PRXB in the exhaust pipe?

How did you know that you had three bad injectors ?

What were the symptoms ?

Thanks David

 

[Silver_Ram]

dsherman,



I had noticed that my oil level had risen over full, the last two times I changed the oil filter. Ran an oil sample & it came back high for diesel fuel.



Changed the injectors & I had a pump shop test the old ones, 3 were bad - they told me that they were probably dumping in fuel. Fuel dilution would explain an oil level that kept climbing.

 

[dsherman]

dsherman,



I had noticed that my oil level had risen over full, the last two times I changed the oil filter. Ran an oil sample & it came back high for diesel fuel.



Changed the injectors & I had a pump shop test the old ones, 3 were bad - they told me that they were probably dumping in fuel. Fuel dilution would explain an oil level that kept climbing.

Thank you for answering my question , I was told that If you had a bad injector That it would mess fire, Did that happen to you at all ?

Thanks David

 

[Silver_Ram]

Sometimes when you have a bad injector, you can have a mis-fire.



My truck did not, it just loaded diesel fuel in the crank case. Truck ran fine, just one of those things.