Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Whats so wrong with the 24 valves??

[Mhannink]

the biggest thing is preferance thos who don't want to work on their truck buy 24v since its electronic tho there are as stated a few problems w/ the fueling not all but most from what i hear the 24 vavles don't help you till your over 800 horse but thats just most opinons and im sure theres many 12v making good power over 800hp the other thing its easier to work on the 12v and the p7100 pump is the power king thats what the drag and pullers use its the power hose pump but it really all boils down to prefereance

 

[Cummins360]

This is all true and interesting, It's funny how there is such a rivalary between the owners of 12 and 24 valve cummins engines. I personally like the 24 valve for its sophistication and i like the preciceness of the electronic controlls. I still have the original VP44 and it runs great, and I still think you can flow more air with 24 valves than with 12. Just my $0. 02

 

[Cummins360]

12 or 24 valve the front end and brakes still suck so thats something we can all agree on lol

 

[RustyJC]

12 or 24 valve the front end and brakes still suck so thats something we can all agree on lol

Not if it's a 2WD with 4 wheel discs! :-laf



Rusty

 

[Mhannink]

This is all true and interesting, It's funny how there is such a rivalary between the owners of 12 and 24 valve cummins engines. I personally like the 24 valve for its sophistication and i like the preciceness of the electronic controlls. I still have the original VP44 and it runs great, and I still think you can flow more air with 24 valves than with 12. Just my $0. 02

your right 24 does flow more air but at the say stock horsepower its only moving so much air and from what ive gleaned(this is my observations only no proof) the 12v head will flow fine for hp up to 800 or so then the 24v has an advandage

 

[Cummins360]

well i have a 4x4 with drums in the back (which by the way are a royal pain in the ***** to work on) and I had to replace all 4 balljoints, the track bar (nice design by dodge) the tie rod, the drag link, the steering box, both front hubs, and the rotors, the calipers, the rear wheel seals, and now the exhaust manifold. This truck is a money pit but I still love it, (oh and by the way all this was worn out because the guy i bought it from plowed commercial lots with it) courtisy of ebay lol. It's a love hate relationship I have going with my truck but at 167,000 the engine is just broken in... . which is less than can be said for the NV4500..... damn fifth gear nut!!!

 

[DHeasley]

12v/24v

Previous to my current 02 24v I had a 97 12v. I run the 12v 300,000 and did nothing but normal fluid changes and valve adjustments. (did the 5th gear thing) other than that never had a problem. My current 24v has the dead pedal and engine goes to idle or shutdown comes and goes runs fine for thousands of miles and then reoccurs. My 12v got a little better mileage. 24v has more power and easier to hot rod. I had more confidence in the 12v never occured to me it would quit on the road,always expecting my current truck to leave me somewhere.

 

[Cummins360]

it sounds like your vp44 has seen better days, and i'm never afraid of my truck leaving me anywhere either. Even with a dead pedal it will still usually get you home. And the 24 valve motor deffinitley has more power stock then the stock 12 valve does.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Not if it's a 2WD with 4 wheel discs! :-laf



Rusty

ABSOLUTELY - the 4-wheel disc brakes on my 24 valver work GREAT! :-laf :-laf

 

[Nate]

The brakes on my truck are ok, but the pedal has always felt spongy, even after bleeding.

 

[master1578]

Hows that straight pipe sound with the 24 valve? I'm thinkin about straight pipeing mine, ever had any problems with that?

WHAT?! Did you say something?... .....

Actually it sounds awesome. I had mine straight piped to my 5" stacks but a 40 mile commute (one way) with 35 of those miles at 70-75 mph on the interstate was just a little too much. I had to put on a muffler to take the edge off. It would probably be fine straight piped right to the back.



Brian

 

[Texas Diesel]

What is wrong with the 24V engine? E_P_A, thats all. The EPA mandated lower emissions and Cummins needed higher injection pressure for better atomization of the fuel. Now we have an inferior (compared to the P-7100) VP-44. And the 3rd generation trucks have common rail. Do you want to know how many 03 and up engines I have seen with the crankcase filled with fuel, due to faulty o rings? DC knows this and built a "engine oil pressure low for too long" code in the OBDIII. I have brought many gallons of 50% motor & 50% fuel to run in the tank of my 12V. It seems that when the ratio reaches 50% it sets the code mentioned above. This is another "improvement" mandated by the EPA.



How many 12V LP's get replaced? What is the number of P-7100's that get replaced.



Argue all you want but the bottom line is the 12V injection pumps are more reliable, last longer and cheaper to fix than the VP-44. I looked for months for a 12V 3500 before I took a step down and settled for a 24V. I even asked some owners if they wanted to sell me their 12V so they could get a new one. I only got laughs and "nope, I'll just keep her" Only caveat is the #53 block... The killer dowell pin is an easy fix.



Quoting a good friend "The EPA wont stop until the exhaust is piped directly into the cab because the exhaust is cleaner than outside air, even it we get 4 gallons to the mile to achieve it"



It doesnt matter that a diesel is more efficient and produces less "green house" gasses than gassers.



The EPA is why we cant build any new refineries, they cost too much now.

 

[BTighe]

people keep talking about the 24v have way more stock power but the difference is barely noticable. ive been told that the 24v head is better after 500hp. of coarse there are ways to fix this. i for one like the idea of mechanical injection and how simple my engine is. my lift pump went out and i didnt have to worry about my injection pump. fuel milage might be better with the 12 but i still avarage about 16mpg so that make no difference to me. it would be nice to be able to adjust the power on the fly but its not a must have. 12v sound better. i love my 12v but id would be affraid of a 24v either. the rest is still a dodge. btw i have about 6 cups of coffee in my carpet thanks to the cup holders.

 

[radar doctor]

Boy this is a good article DOC

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

people keep talking about the 24v have way more stock power but the difference is barely noticable.



AIN'T it AMAZING that an extra 25 HP or so as being discussed here between 12/24 valve engines is NOT "noticeable" - yet washing the truck or merely switching to synthetic lube or some other change *DOES* make a (supposedly!) big difference in SOTP HP... :-laf



Pretty amusing what we can talk ourselves into when we want to...

 

[Supermod56]

I never even considered a 12 valve, I wanted the 4 doors, and I never saw a 12 valve with that, I don't even know if they made em. The 24 does have a nicer-looking valve cover though. And to quiet it down, all you gotta do is toss the stock injectors in the nearest garbage can. And I do work on mine, nothing complicated about it. You do have to like the simple and reliable system on the 12 valver, and the ability to burn almost anything in it!!

Tom

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

They started making the quad cab in 98, the 1st half of the year they were 12 valves. They are pretty rare trucks to find though.

 

[Texas Diesel]

people keep talking about the 24v have way more stock power but the difference is barely noticable.



AIN'T it AMAZING that an extra 25 HP or so as being discussed here between 12/24 valve engines is NOT "noticeable" - yet washing the truck or merely switching to synthetic lube or some other change *DOES* make a (supposedly!) big difference in SOTP HP... :-laf



Pretty amusing what we can talk ourselves into when we want to...

Here we go again, endless igonrant posts...

 

[fox]

I had a 95 4x2 and sold it. Bought a 02 4x4.

The 95 with less than $350 spent on it, got better mileage, pulled more weight and was a bunch more reliable than the 02. Drag racing, I'd have to say the 02 is faster. But it has has a lift pump, VP44 changed due to failures. And it has $5000 spent on it.



I'd love to have it back.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Well I've owned them all (two 24-valves, 3rd Gen and now 12-valve) and there was a lot of differences between each one of them.



My relationship with my '96 has been love-hate to say the least. I like many things about it and when it was running right it was great to drive. While the 12v is cheap to upgrade I've come to realize the P-pump can be temperamental bugger once you start throwing in bigger injectors & messing with timing or installing governor springs. They miss easily or stumble or run erratic. The 12v is great for power but is harder to do it smoothly and without lots of black smoke stinky smokey cold startups.



For over a year I've been battling a miss that's about driven me to the nuthouse and from the numerous PMs and emails I've received from others this isn't to unusual of a problem. It could be I have an internal engine problem such as broken rings so I shouldn't be quick to point fingers at the fuel delivery system. At 384,730 miles though my truck is entitled to a hiccup or two. But if I end up not keeping this truck it's almost certain I'll be going back to a 24-valve. I helped put a set of Mach 5s in a '01 HO today and was amazed how quickly the smoke cleared and exhaust smelled clean on a bone cold motor after idling only 2-3 minutes. My 12-valve can't touch that!



My 12-valve gets decent mileage but for some reason when towing the MPG really bombs compared to my '01 and '03. Both of those trucks were 4x2s but the differenc was still very significant. When towing cars on flatbeds the '01 usually got 18, my '96 only does 15 at best. When I towed a light camper with my '03 I turned 19. 5 mpg, towing that same little camper with my '96 got an abysmal 13. 5 all the way to Maine and back.



Vaughn