Which RV?

[slowmover]

Look farther ahead. How do you want to exit? Age 75?

Easier and safer TT design to tow. Ten years old isn’t “old” (plus depreciation ends); last almost forever. Quality greater than conventional as even though it’s not what it’s extinct competitors once were.

Plenty of better tow vehicles than Jeep’s or pickups. Why work harder for the same miles? Same TT, just swap TV as desires change. My old man had his thirty years (same brand as mine).

Camping is about being outdoors. Roll out the awnings and rest a few after something strenuous. Otherwise, E-Z come and E-Z go.

Want to go camping? Add clothes and food. Hook up family car and leave. Not hire a crew to make them ready or clean them afterwards..

I drive a big truck for a living. It would NEVER occur to me to want to drive something worse when I’m on vacation (all 5ers and most every conventional).

Grew up traveling USA, Canada & Mexico this way. It has not been improved upon since. (Why I own the type).

Take your time. If you conceive retirement as driving to warmer or cooler places to watch TV after bucket list, I’ll feel sorry for you. Same if you’re worried over WiFi connectivity.

Hauling a squared box that won’t go 80,000 miles (design life) ain’t the strategy for retirement. Closed-in, mildewy (they start to rot no matter how many times roof re-sealed), and shake-apart. Remember that no other type was on safari from Cape Town to Cairo in the 1950s (don’t ever believe they aren’t tough enough, even if since the 1990s they’ve gotten porky).

Mines thirty years old. Middle-aged. Dads is still on the road at nearly fifty years. If I was searching for an A/S it’d be late 1990s. Your choice at that stage of original or wide body. $15-25k and up where little needs be done except floor cover and cushions. Update appliances as you go. (Git ‘er dun).

28’ is the sweet spot. Rearmost bath and twins amidship (best storage) with kitchen over axles (all heavy appliances). Forward lounge. This layout solidified in the middle 1960s among all brands. Big enough for three seasons of clothes plus some rec gear. Roomy enough for rainy days or being sick. Easy to park out back.

Airstream was the down-market Chevy. But the easiest to tow. No lack of parts or service, RV appliances otherwise are generic. A little DIY is expected with any RV, so “used” is about cosmetic changes if wanted.

Hensley-patent hitch plus antilock TT disc brakes.

Mines bigger than this (best available at purchase), GVWR 9k (6,680-lbs at purchase with full fresh water + propane; otherwise empty). Good luck on how to use up one ton of payload.

FE is 20% better as HP demand is lower with true aero design. No hard crosswind problems. You won’t have to exit roads like the worst trailers (5ers).

Weather too hot or cold? Leave.
Back roads? Why not?

Current generation doesn’t travel much and worries online, nit-picking. Gets anal about road rash. Ignore that. And laugh at the ignorant who wouldn’t know “quality” if it slapped them.

Maybr be more daring and source an AVION or Silver Streak. Both produced up till 1990 (SS till 95’ but few around). Much lower price for quality you’ll receive. $10k less than comparable A/S and you’ll spend less long-term. Basically, anything after 1972 will be “modern” as to TTs. Avoid electronic controls as you can. Simple is superior.

And you’ll always have buyers you go to sell it. (Mine just appreciates every year). Annual cost of ownership evens out early. Lower every year you own it (total $ divided by years).

Due to life-long experience I knew exactly how to write the spec sheet for both units of a combined rig. I had a hair less than $30k into the pair when I bought them. More than ten years later I could sell them for more than I paid (TT appreciated, TV barely depreciated). I’m not alone in that. The desirability by our fellows to quit town and be a state away in two hours is greater today than ever in my 60+ years. So, keep this consideration in mind. Reliable, indefinite life-span and E-Z to tow

Again, take your time.

.

 

[bcbender]

Man those are super-cool, but man are they spendy!

Check these out! I went to their shop on a tour in CO, Super cool trucks, but you pay for it 100% custom built to order.

https://earthroamer.com/

 

[GCroyle]

Just posting for grins. Airstream just introduced this MB based rig this week. Off road adventure for just over $200

 

[SSage]

Nah, I like this one better:

https://adventuretrucks.com/

 

[slowmover]

Problem with off-road Moho (any) is simple: more money, less space, worse capacity, and you have to live elsewhere it needs service.

Pulling a trailer isn’t hard.
Backing, is just experience.
Change the drivetrain any time you want, otherwise.

Go off-road? Leave TT at campground and do your round trip like any experienced traveler. Way back in the mountains is a day trip. Same as taking tow vehicles to make day trips to Leadville, Pikes Peak or Central City. It’s just a variation. Leave the trailer parked.

Mohos suck on the highway. Tall and tippy. Unless you can order up a Newell, don’t bother, IMO.

You want to travel all of North America, a stable tow rig has always been the easiest way. (Design of TV and TT matter bigly).

Start reading capacities. Propane, Water, Batt Bank, etc. With the minimal solar on mine, parking it with ZERO re-supply for 30-days is a plan. Nothing. No diesel, no water, no propane, no food.

And when you make the long trip to town you leave the trailer parked.

A TT is also the family shelter for disaster. Fires, hurricanes and worse. Leave home where on return only a concrete slab still exists. Power goes out, a Genset can keep everyone comfy still parked at home. And when you make the 300-mile daylong round trip out of the disaster zone you leave the trailer parked.

Consider ALL angles. (Start a business to make use of IRS rules, another).

The right quality makes for an asset to your family’s well/being. (It won’t be a white plastic box on leaf springs).

AVION 23

This example is “more” than any of the mohos featured in this thread.

Understand that in the used market that 25’ and shorter commands a price premium. Men today are afraid of towing (parking). Ask GC if his his nose-heavy A/S is “hard” to tow (Ha!). “Maybe” better than mine, but not much. The 34’ tridem-axle A/S is as stable as it gets. Low TW so a car can get it down the road. Point is: 28-30’ is the sweet spot.

.

 

[slowmover]

Here’s one I sold a dozen years ago. A 1982 32’ Silver Streak. M-3411.
This is after the -ex and I renovated, repaired and refurbished. 8k GVWR.
Maybe 7,400-lbs as we used it, loaded for full-timing.

This avenue interests anyone see the Tom Patterson site for old sales brochures to “read” online ads you come across, SS or Streamline.

For Avion, see the Dr. Gradeless site.

ViewRVs, also good for pics.

All were bargains until the ongoing financial crisis started in 2008-9. Fewer now, and priced higher. (Be persistent and travel to examine. 1200-miles to check out several is nothing extraordinary).

Texas, Arizona and Georgia/Alabama/ Tennessee likeliest states.
“Condition” is king where external damage is (first class) non-existent.
Cosmetic re-do is as in above pics. You choose.

That trailer will tow better, easier, than any lighter 21-25’ square box. It’s not the size nor the weight which determines towing characteristics, it’s SHAPE has precedence.

Lastly, noticed that gigantic hedge fund BlackRock is buying EVERY SINGLE HOUSE comes on the market across the USA? 20-50% ABOVE market value? I strongly recommend you boys ALWAYS have a way to house your family. “Shelter” outweighs all other preps you may undertake.

As in my first post, someone pisses me off I can quit and be OUT of this state in three hours if I so choose. Consider all other scenarios. Hard shelter beats a wall tent until you (you and yours; family & friends) can do otherwise.

I bought another after divorce. Move where I want and as I want.
Ground rent ain’t nothing compared to an apartment.

If retired and wanting to see the world, so much the better.

.

 

[SSage]

My current mid height 5th wheel has just under 8' ceilings mostly, the front is about 6'-6" so I can stand up straight everywhere inside. Not as roomy as my other full height 5th wheels, but the lower roof works better for the areas I go to. I considered a toy hauler travel trailer, those are decent for tall folks too, but I like the way the 5th wheels pull.

If I had the money and time I would have an older Class 8 truck conversion and pull a Grand Cherokee or something like that as a toad. I've been all around the 45' high end diesel pushers, they are nice. But what an expensive to maintain toy! I rather buy a nice off shore fishing boat and a CJ4 or some decent size jet to go visit the boat if I'm dreaming....

 

[Tuesdak]

@slowmover I am curious what you think can haul a 28-30' Airstream as a new Tow Vehicle Today? We owned a silver and blue 1994 GMC 2500 Suburban with the gutless 454 that was a GM demo to Airstream. (Got it in Ohio) I looked and didn't find any 1994 Airstream brochures - it may be on one of them.

The prior original owners of my RV exited RVing when they couldn't take the hitch in and out of the pickup anymore. They had 100K on the 8.1L gas engine pickup they used to tow it. Said they learned quickly they didn't need to do 600 miles a day, but, rather enjoy the area and not go so far between camp sites. Also mentioned that they couldn't pass a gas station...

I looked long and hard at Tin Cans. Yes, unmatched quality*. I hope Silver Streak is able to come back on the market. They were going to court over Thor's cease and desist letter.

The used Tin Cans that didn't need to be gutted and start over inside (including rotted floors from neglected and missing roof vents) have a few disadvantages. Shorter than 28' are hard to find for sale. The long 32' on up are more common. (The Airstream with a slide that came up on the ads here years ago was longer than I wanted.)

Weak frames example. Why not off road? Sadly one model of Airstream 22' International won't even last on the road as the water tanks are in the back (bad design adding serious stress to the frame) and even the frame upgrade fix doesn't last. Others are not noted for strong frames. Even some white boxes have weak frames. I was looking at a 22' for sale here when I ran across this and I was horrified. It would break my heart for the Not Stock 2003 of mine to have ripped the frame out from under a beautiful Airstream.

Onboard Generator: forget it! No, I am not hauling out a heavy rope start generator. Push button any wide spot in the road and nuke lunch. I still have a 2 cylinder 1800 RPM Onan I was going to make work for a travel trailer till mine with a factory genset showed up on the ads.

Insulation not the best. Some trips I have no choice and overnight in Yuma, AZ when it's 117F out. Catch Altitude and be below the freezing point overnight on fall leaf tours.

The split bed may work for some people, but, my hot wife didn't marry me to have separate beds.

Silver Streak did make some police "Command Center" 5th wheels. I should have inquired further about the Silver Streak 5th wheel at a RV salvage yard I was at for parts one day. It had a V4 Wisconsin powered generator and a gas tank. Large front windows. I hope it was sold not scrapped. Airstream also made a few 5th wheels.

http://www.viewrvs.com/5th-wheel/airstream/1989/1989_5thwheel_b.php

Want one? It's a typical Tin Can Project... (Yeah, I have looked at too many Tin Cans that were major projects.)

https://www.airstreamclassifieds.com/1989-airstream-argosy-5th-wheel-36-new-hampshire-361657

I am glad your setup works well for a TT. But porpoising when towing... Sway... PIA Weight Distribution Hitch to setup. I do not have these problems with the Arctic Fox 5th wheel I have. I have my 5er hooked and ready before most can align the damn trailer ball. Big difference with the weight going over the rear wheels vs. being a "lever" on the tag hitch using the rear wheels to sway or slam the TV's front wheels up and down. For it's size (some are bigger and taller out there) it's impressively stable.


* I suggest on par with quality and long life: fiberglass RV's. New ones lack one or more of: recliners (Bigfoot had this factory option at one time), good insulation, onboard generator, and/or want to use a "short people" short queen (BigFoot RV). The 5th wheel Escape Trailer is interesting and starting at $30K is a ballpark away from Airstream's $six figures$ new let alone current used prices. Northern Lite is coming out with a TT as well. But again for amenities I am interested in they do not have. IMO a truck camper provides the same or better. At least you can get a factory onboard generator in a truck camper.

 

[slowmover]

Great post, thanks.

Best TV would be:

4-whl independent suspension
Approx 122” WB
4,000-lbs
Short rear overhang (rear axle center to hitch ball)

Default choice would be Dodge Charger/ Chrysler 300. The new guys with their 15-20 years haven’t ever experienced a well-sorted rig, especially not a car. A 454-Suburban was a pig, Dad had one. The car before it was much better in every dimension of performance.

Bad-ass would be a Porsche Turbo Cayenne. The latest Expeditions and Suburbans are 4-whl IS (finally), but they’re still tall, heavy, and very expensive. Better than a pickup where no safety issue arises in carrying all gear in passenger compartments of both vehicles. Cars rule, pickups drool.

I’ve never carried a Genset and have no plans to do so.
It’s never been any requirement to travel.

Who said a gutted project? Those never work. Getting the most from the interior is a full-time job. Amateur mistakes ruin factory understanding of efficiency. And, take years to complete.

The lawsuit re SS isn’t the same company, design or heritage.

Airstream doesn’t have a frame, per se. Its almost a semi-monocoque design where “the frame” is more of a wall-joining structural member. The similarity is to airplanes. The whole bears the load. Think unit-body versus body-on-frame.

No travel trailer is going to stand up to bad roads, but an all-aluminum has its chances where size is smallest. The conventional trailers pretty well come apart at the roof/wall join. Get out your moisture meter and probe every foot of wall/floor join on a conventional abused by back-road use.

I’ve no idea why anyone would want to drag a trailer down a Forest Service road. Pack a tent instead. The last six miles of a 600-mile trip call for another approach.

No one with a brain parks in Yuma in the summer. Come winter that and Quartzsite are full of RV’ers. No RV is worth beans in extremes. If that’s a priority, search out an AVION (foamed) and install the optional interior storm windows. Better, just leave.

As to hitches: the Hensley patent (Hensley brand and PRO PRIDE) make all other WDH obsolete. What the ignorant don’t know, and the know-it-all’s can’t fathom is that it replicates the 5er mount position. Pivot-Point Projection. Sway eliminated, not (mildly) countered. That “point” is the only 5’er attribute. That trailer type is a disaster on wheels otherwise (toy haulers the worst). Will also sway (oscillate, not porpoise).

With my pickup and this 35’ I can make emergency maneuvers that will roll ANY 5er combo instantly. I can continue those — throttle-on, just above 55-mph — until I get tired of doing them. Granted, compared to a typical CTD mines a diesel Corvette (some suspension mods with IFS + rack & pinion steering), so it’s not a typical straight-axle towing-terror.

I’ll agree some of the Fiberglas trailers seem nice. A BIGFOOT or OLIVER is worth investigating (both need DEXTER Tor Flex + anti-lock disc brakes). They’re heavy for their size, and very limited re length & storage. Stout, so long as that shell material is maintained.

A truck camper (that can be offloaded at a remote campsite) ain’t what I’d ever want to drive the highways with. Not enough space, either. Rainy days, being injured or ill will happen. Do you average 15-mpg as I can with my 63’ combined rig?

Point is, you’ve chosen limited travel for 1-2 people with frequent re-supply. I’ve chosen continent-wide travel with up to six persons aboard plus a great deal more supply. (Different aims). Those last six miles are a penalty for the other 600.

Thanks for the links. I hope the OP finds some benefit in searching alternatives (ignores the non-wisdom of RV forums; blockheads) and does in-person investigation.

Retirement + Travel can get mighty expensive, mighty fast. Clears out the unprepared. Some vacation trips in the working years isn’t the same. That’s like taking metro driving habits with you out onto The Big Road. Can getcha killed. Full-time RVng can be a shock. A year or three and those 2-3/month trips aren’t attractive anymore. Disposal of the traveling rig becomes a genuine financial loss.

(And again). OP, take your time.

 

[slowmover]

1983 30’ AVION $17,900
Lebanon, OH

As close to original as one will find. Owner notes updates, etc. Ignore any owner-added colors, etc (toss the bedspreads, whatever).

Price is reasonable. See SILVERAVION or other sites for sales brochure pics to compare. Original condition is King. That front dinette isn’t OE, nor are painted cabinets. The first can be removed and the second can be changed. (Not losses as with some I’ve seen). It should be help ratchet down on price negotiation.

Comparable A/S is $8k higher and not as good. Enough info already to travel and inspect.

Point to this post is price & condition. A GOOD current example is why I posted it.

You’ll sell it for same or more.
More updates as you go along is SOP.

The $35-75k new white boxes will be a loss at every step. They’ll be land-fill ready before the finance agreement times out.

So, RV’ng ain’t for you? Not sure?
Here’s the E-Z way in & out.

Also: owner has dedicated parking next to garage/shop in a nice neighborhood. (Big plus). All pics reflect positives. (Uncle Lester wasn’t living out back cousin Gretas place before he croaked).

RV Trader (still new listing).

New trailer sales “warranty” ain’t worth much.
Neither are RV service departments.
Neither is a positive.

.

 

[Tuesdak]

I will always admire and respect Tin Cans as well as the Fiberglass RV's. Yeah they hold their value, period. They were above my budget and didn't meet my needs. Due to Delamanation cost and concerns my next RV likely will be a fiberglass model. Just ain't done with this RV yet. It's 18 years old and in good shape.

X2 on an RV being a "GO" shelter for wildfires, etc. The fires were way too close in 2020 about 6 miles away ... to the point the "GO!" text was sent to some local cell phones just for being on 'the wrong tower' in the "GO!" area just east of us. Due to the heat here a generator is a requirement and with full propane tanks I have 48 hours before I have to fill them on gen power. Power failures even in a RV park with a plug is possible.

Delamanation from a small stress crack cost me a grand to have fixed. It's the biggest disadvantage to most RV's on the market and the #1 thing I do not like with my RV. To the OP: check it out and FLAT OUT RUN AWAY if you see it. It's a black hole on some rigs making them a total loss. https://rvlife.com/rv-delamination/

I am ok with the fact my RV is disposable. Everything is a trade off. However I would not buy a new disposable RV. We have towed many RV's that are of NO Quality What-So-Ever. From the factory to dealer in a strong headwind we had the roof of one POS RV brand peal off. (Matter of fact the Haulmark cargo trailer also had a warranty repair for the roof pealing up in the front. As well as Garbage Hi-Run tires separating and piled roof high at the dealer.) Another time nearly burned the truck, RV, and RV lot down with a miswired dead short to ground in a new RV. Tried to get the jacks to move and applied jumper cables to it's battery. The smoke from the truck and RV was impressive. That RV went back to the factory for repair and we had to replace the burned off ground wire in the 5er bed plug.

I will look into the Hensley hitch. Whole point of these forums is sometimes find out about something better.

I would submit a 2021 Dodge Durango SRT Hellcat would also be Bad Ass. My buddy who still tows scrap metal with a couple of V6 pickups just his delivered, finally after chipit shortage delay hell.

Not taking away from your combo handling well. My experience is a 2500/3500 pickup is hands down better for towing only second to a Suburban class TV excluding MD stuff. Using a 1993 3/4 ton GM pickup 6.5TD extended cab long bed vs. a Trailblazer SS 113" wheelbase with the LS2 Corvette 6.0L 395HP/400Lbft. 28' Haulmark cargo tag trailer. The Trailblazer SS was 4400 LBS the 3/4T was ~6500 LBS. Even with a WD hitch on the Trailblazer SS the tail was wagging the dog. 6500 RPM redline tossed the AC compressor belt off the engine somewhere climbing up to the Mogollon Rim. Next week the hatch was covered with transmission oil and the Torque Converter was burnt blue. I rented a Ram 1500 with the gashog 4.7L to deliver parts on our route while we finished changing a blown 6.5TD engine in the 3/4T. (GM engines have come a long way since the 90's. And The Great Depression V2.0 took the 2008 Duramax away that was way nicer than the 1993.) None of the pickups had the tail wagging the dog like the Trailblazer SS did.

In addition to loading the cargo trailer full sometimes we also used the bed of a pickup for cargo. Firewood and other stuff for camping IMO is common.

Consider all the maneuvering you can or can't do is limited when Elk (as in more than one although one is all it takes) decide to run across the road. Don't roll it: run whatever over is sometimes the only and/or better option. In a sedan or minivan you wear the Elk if it coming through the windshield doesn't kill you. Our 1993 took out two Elk on the 260: dammed Road Rats. No Elk permit needed, but, being marinated in coolant, engine oil from blown oil cooler, and run over, speed bump style, by the pickup and fully loaded cargo trailer ruined all the meat. The minivan in the tow lot behind the 1993 had blood on the inside of the rear window and elk guts all over the inside that came in through the windshield.

Compare where the Elk hit to the windshield level on a car.

After Elk encounter rebuild hauling RV's again...

I do respect your postings on MPG and it's something for the OP and others to consider. Your 15 MPG is impressive, but, most RVers should expect and be happy to maybe get double digit MPG as 6 MPG on gas is common. Some places Gallons Per Mile and I am not kidding... Between Phoenix and the Mogollon Rim. It is a big cost when one can drop over $500 on diesel in one day. Did I mention new RV owners should read your comments on improving MPG? I have swapped turbo's to majorly improve MPG but that's way off topic.

Yuma, AZ. It's between here and San Diego, CA. Had the pool to ourselves, and only two other people there. Something to be said visiting a place without peak tourist/snow bird crowds. Not all RV use is vacation: The choice was: Take the RV or not and where to stay between point A and B. Full hookups vs. listen to genset run AC all night. Do I recommend it?" NO! But understand there wasn't a choice for us about going through there. The thing about writing off an RV on taxes for other reasons... Dead issue if an auditor has to read the receipts for staying in 117F+ Clearly not a vacation/recreation. Could see the beach in walking distance from where we stayed in SD, but, didn't get time to walk on it.

One reason we did get an RV is places are few and far in between here in AZ. No bathrooms, (or dirty, pay to use) no places to eat, and hotels that are full due to some random event I could care less about. Boondocking has been an important consideration as even campgrounds can be full.

I had started out looking at a new Truck Camper until I found out it's weight for my 2003 truck was way beyond sane to try and carry it. I wanted to keep 4 tires off the road needed for a trailer. Spent many weekends in the showrooms checking out Truck Campers to see if they would even work for us. Not been in a Northern Lite and they are now carried at a dealer here. My new truck has the payload for a Northern Lite. You understandably used the word ignorance and it's appropriate toward RV's in so many ways esp. dealers. Keep in mind the "willful ignorance" and the "simply didn't know about".

So I put down a budget number for a used RV and at the time that brought up a lot of gutted and/or project Tin Cans that needed major work. Yeah spend the money on one that isn't a project. I wound up getting our RV at the end of the RV season for cash and frankly it's disposable for the amount I have in it. It's worth more than I put in it at the moment. It was a test to see if the RV would work out for us and easy to dispose of without a big loss. I dropped $2G in it the week after I bought it to have it cleaned as it was heavily used and other minor repairs like repack the bearings and check the brakes. It got a new awning fabric. It's actually bigger than WE need, but, as mentioned nothing smaller appears to have the specific things we want in an RV. As we learn how to use an RV the big water tanks of 80 Gal worked out well.

 

[Ozymandias]

There ARE RVs that can withstand extrem weather's easily. Scalding hot or deep sub-zero doesn't matter.
And they ARE built to last on even the worst roads for un undefined time of use.

 

[slowmover]

There ARE RVs that can withstand extrem weather's easily. Scalding hot or deep sub-zero doesn't matter.
And they ARE built to last on even the worst roads for un undefined time of use.

Your enthusiasm noted. But travel trailers give up thermal mass for mobility. What the Air Force used to build the DEW Line is irrelevant.

Tow with the family car, and in return a long-life reliable (thus, cheap) TT. The pattern was set by the middle 1960s as I noted above. What’s changed is that Americans can’t afford quality any more, and many miss out by not buying USED high quality.

Exceptional climatic conditions are not for RVs. Anyone says they are doesn’t understand the DAMAGE long-term. 40F-80F covers it well enough. At the point where the furnace or the A/C is in 24-hr use, it’s past time to move on. Chasing shirtsleeve weather is kinda the point. Maine in the summer. Florida in the winter. Plenty of other places spring or fall.

Sometimes you travel by other means. So what? Hotels and the homes of relatives or friends existed long before travel trailers. And are better-suited to high heat or freezing cold. Drive, fly, or ride the train.

The 15-20/yr plan needs to be laid out. As I said of my parents: 30-years = (1) trailer & (2) tow vehicles. USA, Canada & Mexico. Family of five, last was as a retired married couple. Consider that they were married sixty years and that that ONE trailer they owned was for half of those six decades.

All kinds of ways to stretch retirement dollars. But not very far with continual finance notes on vehicles.

Have fun rolling the dice and predicting what numbers come up, OP.

.

 

[slowmover]

I will always admire and respect Tin Cans as well as the Fiberglass RV's. Yeah they hold their value, period. They were above my budget and didn't meet my needs. Due to Delamanation cost and concerns my next RV likely will be a fiberglass model. Just ain't done with this RV yet. It's 18 years old and in good shape.

View attachment 128712

X2 on an RV being a "GO" shelter for wildfires, etc. The fires were way too close in 2020 about 6 miles away ... to the point the "GO!" text was sent to some local cell phones just for being on 'the wrong tower' in the "GO!" area just east of us. Due to the heat here a generator is a requirement and with full propane tanks I have 48 hours before I have to fill them on gen power. Power failures even in a RV park with a plug is possible.

Delamanation from a small stress crack cost me a grand to have fixed. It's the biggest disadvantage to most RV's on the market and the #1 thing I do not like with my RV. To the OP: check it out and FLAT OUT RUN AWAY if you see it. It's a black hole on some rigs making them a total loss. https://rvlife.com/rv-delamination/

I am ok with the fact my RV is disposable. Everything is a trade off. However I would not buy a new disposable RV. We have towed many RV's that are of NO Quality What-So-Ever. From the factory to dealer in a strong headwind we had the roof of one POS RV brand peal off. (Matter of fact the Haulmark cargo trailer also had a warranty repair for the roof pealing up in the front. As well as Garbage Hi-Run tires separating and piled roof high at the dealer.) Another time nearly burned the truck, RV, and RV lot down with a miswired dead short to ground in a new RV. Tried to get the jacks to move and applied jumper cables to it's battery. The smoke from the truck and RV was impressive. That RV went back to the factory for repair and we had to replace the burned off ground wire in the 5er bed plug.

I will look into the Hensley hitch. Whole point of these forums is sometimes find out about something better.

I would submit a 2021 Dodge Durango SRT Hellcat would also be Bad Ass. My buddy who still tows scrap metal with a couple of V6 pickups just his delivered, finally after chipit shortage delay hell.

Not taking away from your combo handling well. My experience is a 2500/3500 pickup is hands down better for towing only second to a Suburban class TV excluding MD stuff. Using a 1993 3/4 ton GM pickup 6.5TD extended cab long bed vs. a Trailblazer SS 113" wheelbase with the LS2 Corvette 6.0L 395HP/400Lbft. 28' Haulmark cargo tag trailer. The Trailblazer SS was 4400 LBS the 3/4T was ~6500 LBS. Even with a WD hitch on the Trailblazer SS the tail was wagging the dog. 6500 RPM redline tossed the AC compressor belt off the engine somewhere climbing up to the Mogollon Rim. Next week the hatch was covered with transmission oil and the Torque Converter was burnt blue. I rented a Ram 1500 with the gashog 4.7L to deliver parts on our route while we finished changing a blown 6.5TD engine in the 3/4T. (GM engines have come a long way since the 90's. And The Great Depression V2.0 took the 2008 Duramax away that was way nicer than the 1993.) None of the pickups had the tail wagging the dog like the Trailblazer SS did.

In addition to loading the cargo trailer full sometimes we also used the bed of a pickup for cargo. Firewood and other stuff for camping IMO is common.

View attachment 128709

Consider all the maneuvering you can or can't do is limited when Elk (as in more than one although one is all it takes) decide to run across the road. Don't roll it: run whatever over is sometimes the only and/or better option. In a sedan or minivan you wear the Elk if it coming through the windshield doesn't kill you. Our 1993 took out two Elk on the 260: dammed Road Rats. No Elk permit needed, but, being marinated in coolant, engine oil from blown oil cooler, and run over, speed bump style, by the pickup and fully loaded cargo trailer ruined all the meat. The minivan in the tow lot behind the 1993 had blood on the inside of the rear window and elk guts all over the inside that came in through the windshield.

Compare where the Elk hit to the windshield level on a car.

View attachment 128710


After Elk encounter rebuild hauling RV's again...

View attachment 128711

I do respect your postings on MPG and it's something for the OP and others to consider. Your 15 MPG is impressive, but, most RVers should expect and be happy to maybe get double digit MPG as 6 MPG on gas is common. Some places Gallons Per Mile and I am not kidding... Between Phoenix and the Mogollon Rim. It is a big cost when one can drop over $500 on diesel in one day. Did I mention new RV owners should read your comments on improving MPG? I have swapped turbo's to majorly improve MPG but that's way off topic.

Yuma, AZ. It's between here and San Diego, CA. Had the pool to ourselves, and only two other people there. Something to be said visiting a place without peak tourist/snow bird crowds. Not all RV use is vacation: The choice was: Take the RV or not and where to stay between point A and B. Full hookups vs. listen to genset run AC all night. Do I recommend it?" NO! But understand there wasn't a choice for us about going through there. The thing about writing off an RV on taxes for other reasons... Dead issue if an auditor has to read the receipts for staying in 117F+ Clearly not a vacation/recreation. Could see the beach in walking distance from where we stayed in SD, but, didn't get time to walk on it.

One reason we did get an RV is places are few and far in between here in AZ. No bathrooms, (or dirty, pay to use) no places to eat, and hotels that are full due to some random event I could care less about. Boondocking has been an important consideration as even campgrounds can be full.

I had started out looking at a new Truck Camper until I found out it's weight for my 2003 truck was way beyond sane to try and carry it. I wanted to keep 4 tires off the road needed for a trailer. Spent many weekends in the showrooms checking out Truck Campers to see if they would even work for us. Not been in a Northern Lite and they are now carried at a dealer here. My new truck has the payload for a Northern Lite. You understandably used the word ignorance and it's appropriate toward RV's in so many ways esp. dealers. Keep in mind the "willful ignorance" and the "simply didn't know about".

So I put down a budget number for a used RV and at the time that brought up a lot of gutted and/or project Tin Cans that needed major work. Yeah spend the money on one that isn't a project. I wound up getting our RV at the end of the RV season for cash and frankly it's disposable for the amount I have in it. It's worth more than I put in it at the moment. It was a test to see if the RV would work out for us and easy to dispose of without a big loss. I dropped $2G in it the week after I bought it to have it cleaned as it was heavily used and other minor repairs like repack the bearings and check the brakes. It got a new awning fabric. It's actually bigger than WE need, but, as mentioned nothing smaller appears to have the specific things we want in an RV. As we learn how to use an RV the big water tanks of 80 Gal worked out well.

Great stuff.

Second part to OP is what’s your budget?
(Asked rhetorically)

The “cost” of owning & operating an RV (every dime) is thru this calculation:

Nights aboard divided into total outlay.

Run numbers to get a handle.

Sure, it’s more expensive than a Greyhound ticket and you and your wife each packing a shelter half. But how much?

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[endoscott]

"What’s changed is that Americans can’t afford quality any more"

I will have to disagree a little on that. You should say "Americans choose to have a lot more cheap crap than buying fewer items of high quality".

It's getting to the point now where you can't even FIND quality even if you are WILLING to pay more for quality. We have done it to ourselves.

 

[slowmover]

"What’s changed is that Americans can’t afford quality any more"

I will have to disagree a little on that. You should say "Americans choose to have a lot more cheap crap than buying fewer items of high quality".

It's getting to the point now where you can't even FIND quality even if you are WILLING to pay more for quality. We have done it to ourselves.

“You” (all Americans) make 55% less at the same job as in 1970.
No, you cannot afford that quality.

And manufacturing got moved away. “We” didn’t do this to ourselves. But we have successfully hidden our heads in the sand as it occurred.

To get into and out of RV’ng at a reasonable cost (where much or most of the RV purchase price is refunded at same; but an unadjusted number) is possible. And, it’s reasonable that upgrading the trailer to some extent will be a minimum of $10k (Hensley hitch, antilock disc brakes, all new appliances; maybe new curtains and floor covers; etc). At which point it’s a FAR better towing trailer than almost anything. And be like new.

But (as I’ve done it) it’s as funds allow. DIY, where possible (still keeping to the HIGH factory standard of quality). Not for everyone.

I’d be on my second or third used trailer by now were I buying used. And have spent far more due to finance cost. And far more in maintenance and repairs hiring it out.

I figure anyone reading a vehicle forum has the DIY gene. Meaning, TLC goes a VERY long way with RVs. The stuff no shop wants to do. That techs can’t make money on (no one will pay them).

Used trailer condition is everything. Crawl underneath, climb on the roof . . . but start with THIS quality of brand.

It’s viable. It’s not two or three years of no use (do NOT tear out fixtures; that’s the classic gutted shell that’s ruined thousands of thee trailers over the past thirty years), it’s a project here and a project there. Small bites. Save $ for the big ones. Do part or most, then hire an expert (good with his EXPENSIVE diagnostic tools).

People enjoy seeing classic trailers. And, unlike a Harley or a muscle car, it’s not a waste of money. The value goes past nostalgia or looking cool for thirty seconds.

There’s always a buyer. Until that day you have an appreciating asset that’s shelter in a storm. Lightning, . . . or politics.

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[endoscott]

Yes, DIY allows you to "afford" better quality since you are deleting the 50% labor cost for whatever the job is. Plus you can buy tools that pay for themselves....and then have them for life. Wife and I bought 5 acres in 1981 and did ALL of the work clearing, stump burning, and house building. Paid as we went. Sure, we could have just got a mortgage (anyone remember the 15% mortgage rates in 1981) but we didn't want to waste money. When we moved in there was only "party line" phone service for 3 families, remember that? God, those were fun times and a lot of work! 40 years in and still hoping to finish it soon....
We bought our 2008 AF 24 5N trailer used and went to New Mexico to pick it up. Prior owner was an engineer, took excellent care of it. It is still in excellent condition. We did replace the carpeting a couple years ago. Unlike many trailers these AF trailers are not disposable after 10 years. I predict in another 10 years it will still be serviceable. But it's not an Airstream, for sure. OTOH it has a nice slideout so we can be in it for a month or two no problems with the living conditions, very comfortable.

 

[SSage]

I have one of the cheapest light weight 5h wheel toy haulers made back in 2006 with the aluminum siding. The main wear items are the vinyl wrapped cabinets, the wrap is wearing thin in certain areas. So I'm adding corner trim and more diamond plate accents inside, the trailer was trimmed in aluminum diamond plate already. Overall the cabinets have been surprisingly durable, the toy hauler has been used a lot and it has not been babied.

The floors still look fine, the roof is water tight with a re-seal job and all the roof's plastic covers have been replaced. Air conditioner still works fine. Water heater, fridge and furnace have been fine so far. I'll be improving the cosmetics as I have time up front inside, but the trailer has held up good. Just the usual yellowed plastics and I'm freshening up the plastics when I get the time. The generator is okay, when I bought the unit it was in need of maintenance, the governor was way off. But, the original carb is still there for now. I did replace the main breaker and adjusted the output down to normal. The gasoline was like syrup, but it has cleaned up good. Under load it runs great, but I have a surge without load I need to figure out. Some of the mini blinds finally broke this year, so it has all new ones now.

Its all about maintenance! You can keep the "disposable" trailers on the road with a little TLC.

 

[Tuesdak]

A good way to "see" value is looking at "used" for sale ads. Things like insane high miles (over 250K ) and stupid crazy prices were (and are) normal for Cummins powered pickups. Rare to see a Ford or GM diesel with up to and over 250K on it for sale.

Same can be said for RV's. What ones hold their value. At nearly 20 years old condition determines value for the Arctic Fox 5th wheel of mine. It's a survivor at this age due to good care. Yeah one water leak and it's a total loss quick. Try and buy a Tin Can or Fiberglass RV this age and they still have a high value of their original sale price. Sure I can keep it in good shape... It was bought new MSRP $39,815.00 in 2003 plus tax ($4000 I guess) and it was worth $8,000 in 2016. I am not sure I could replace it in today's insane market for $12,500. Now they are new $70K for the same model, up from 60K a few years ago with a $10K expected discount.

Getting a good condition used worked for me with an easy exit if it didn't. Yeah, other brands are lower quality and frankly Good Luck! I need some too though.

One more thought about tow vehicles. They don't make a 1974 Olds Vista Cruiser station wagon, rear facing 3rd row CO seat, with a 455 Quadrajet police option package anymore. The Tow Vehicles Tin Cans perfected in the 1960's are no longer made with few exceptions: Suburbans, vans, and pickups. The modern FWD $&*% boxes are just that. Look at people reaching for Suburbans, Tahoe's, Big Ford SUV's, and Crew Cab pickups to replace essentially a full size station wagon.

I am happy to see the Jeep pickup as the S-10, Dakota, and Ford small pickups have been lacking. Some attempts have been a why bother making a 1499 size pickup next to a 1500 where a measuring tape is needed to be sure what one is smaller...

 

[Dl5treez]

I’ve no idea why anyone would want to drag a trailer down a Forest Service road. Pack a tent instead. The last six miles of a 600-mile trip call for another approach.

There are some amazing places to camp down gravel roads across America, not to mention all the fascinating road trips one can make down the gravel. Not your cup of tea doesn't mean it isn't the preferred flavor of many people.