bypass oilfilters?

[HGraham]

A couple of questions on bypass oil filters. Who makes the best one for a 05. subjective i know but looking for opinions. I came across a filter with 3 baldwin jc405 filters. no name on the filter case, did baldwin make a bypass unit? would this work on the 05? thanks for all the info

 

[RedRam401]

I have a Frantz for mine, but if I had to do it again I believe that I would get the Amsoil BMK11 and add the preoiler that bolts up to it.

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/amk. aspx

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I have a Frantz for mine, but if I had to do it again I believe that I would get the Amsoil BMK11 and add the preoiler that bolts up to it. "



You know, that pre-filter does look interesting - but a question after reading the installation instructions on the Amsoil website:



IF the oil system attachment point is used as they suggest, that pre-oiler - or any other, for that matter, is dividing it's lube flow between the bearings, where you DO want it to go - and ALSO a percentage is traveling back thru the oil pump into the oil pan. In other words, ALL the lube flow is NOT going ONLY to the bearings where it is most needed - and for that matter, very little or NO prelube gets to the cylinder walls prior to engine startup , and THEY are still dry until normal flow after startup...



An added question as to the Amsoil unit is reservoir size - 160 cc is NOT very much volume (about the same volume as inside a toilet paper core), especially if a significant percentage of that volume IS lost, as I suspect it is - think about it, after the oil drains back outta the various engine oil galleries back into the pan. 160 cc might not even be enough to refill those galleries! Would it help? Sure, but enough capacity to truly PRESSURIZE the entire system would be my goal...



Wayne?

 

[amsoilman]

"I have a Frantz for mine, but if I had to do it again I believe that I would get the Amsoil BMK11 and add the preoiler that bolts up to it. "



You know, that pre-filter does look interesting - but a question after reading the installation instructions on the Amsoil website:



IF the oil system attachment point is used as they suggest, that pre-oiler - or any other, for that matter, is dividing it's lube flow between the bearings, where you DO want it to go - and ALSO a percentage is traveling back thru the oil pump into the oil pan. In other words, ALL the lube flow is NOT going ONLY to the bearings where it is most needed - and for that matter, very little or NO prelube gets to the cylinder walls prior to engine startup , and THEY are still dry until normal flow after startup...



An added question as to the Amsoil unit is reservoir size - 160 cc is NOT very much volume (about the same volume as inside a toilet paper core), especially if a significant percentage of that volume IS lost, as I suspect it is - think about it, after the oil drains back outta the various engine oil galleries back into the pan. 160 cc might not even be enough to refill those galleries! Would it help? Sure, but enough capacity to truly PRESSURIZE the entire system would be my goal...



Wayne?

I have seen this unit installed on a gas engine, and when the ignition was place to the on position (before starting engine) the oil gauge actually showed oil pressure.



The "pre-oiler", as Amsoil calls it, is charged with oil every time the engine is sarted, so it is PRESSURE filled, then an electrical solonoid acuates, to keep the pressurized oil in the pre-oiler. When the ignition switch is turned to the on position, the solonoid operates, and the pressurized oil is released, then fills again when the engine starts. This unit was tested with over one million actuations, with no problems at all.



They make two different units, one which fits directly on the top of the "Duel-Remote", and a stand alone unit that can be mounted anywhere, and connected to the oiling system at any pressurized oil port.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I have seen this unit installed on a gas engine, and when the ignition was place to the on position (before starting engine) the oil gauge actually showed oil pressure. "



Thanks for the response Wayne - but do you suppose the registered PSI was OIL, or the PSI resulting from a mix of oil and a large volume of trapped AIR left in the oil gallerys after the oil had drained back into the oil pan when the engine was shut down? The oil pressure guage sure won't know the difference between oil, OR air pressure in that case...



I suppose the only REAL way to check, is to pull the pan off a test engine, and see if and how much actual OIL is seen to be flowing from various main and rod journals - or if what appears is largely air bubbles...



Like I said, it's a good step in the right direction, but personally, *I* would prefer a reservoir source closer to a quart or so for a no-doubt-about-it supply that will purge all air from those drained oil galleries, and actually pressurize them with OIL prior to startup...

 

[amsoilman]

"I have seen this unit installed on a gas engine, and when the ignition was place to the on position (before starting engine) the oil gauge actually showed oil pressure. "



Thanks for the response Wayne - but do you suppose the registered PSI was OIL, or the PSI resulting from a mix of oil and a large volume of trapped AIR left in the oil gallerys after the oil had drained back into the oil pan when the engine was shut down? The oil pressure guage sure won't know the difference between oil, OR air pressure in that case...



I suppose the only REAL way to check, is to pull the pan off a test engine, and see if and how much actual OIL is seen to be flowing from various main and rod journals - or if what appears is largely air bubbles...



Like I said, it's a good step in the right direction, but personally, *I* would prefer a reservoir source closer to a quart or so for a no-doubt-about-it supply that will purge all air from those drained oil galleries, and actually pressurize them with OIL prior to startup...

Gary,

I forgot to mention the AMS-OILER™ (pre-luber) is a "closed" system, meaning it will not be subjected to air, or external contaminants. The piston within the cylinder is spring loaded, (100 lbs. retracted, 15 lbs. fully extended) and pushes the oil out of the unit, and a 95 db audible signal will sound for 2 seconds informing you the oil is being dispenced. When the audible signal stops, the engine can be started. It also has an over-pressure protection in excess of 65 psi.

According to AMsoil Inc. some prototype units were "field tested" for several years.

One thing that is nice about these units is they are small enough to do the job, and can be mounted in any position and still work the same.



Yes the discharge volume is about 5. 5 ounces, but Amoil Inc. has done the "home work"!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[RedRam401]

(snip)
Like I said, it's a good step in the right direction, but personally, *I* would prefer a reservoir source closer to a quart or so for a no-doubt-about-it supply that will purge all air from those drained oil galleries, and actually pressurize them with OIL prior to startup...

Morosso makes the "Accumulator" in either a 1. 5 or 3 quart size that would handle what you want.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1824&prmenbr=361

or

http://store. summitracing.com/default. asp?target=/egnsearch. asp&N=400105

You would have to supply your own solinoid valve.

After turning the key there would be plenty of time for the oil to flow while the grid heater does it's thing.

 

[amsoilman]

Morosso makes the "Accumulator" in either a 1. 5 or 3 quart size that would handle what you want.



http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1824&prmenbr=361



or



http://store. summitracing.com/default. asp?target=/egnsearch. asp&N=400105



You would have to supply your own solinoid valve.

After turning the key there would be plenty of time for the oil to flow while the grid heater does it's thing.

The "Moroso" pre-luber is a larger unit, measuring about 18 inches long, so installation is a bit more difficult, and it also uses compressed air to operate, and could be a source of contamination, such as moisture etc. The unit must be manually activated under the hood!

IT DOES HAVE A LARGER CAPACITY... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... but is it needed?



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[RedRam401]

The "Moroso" pre-luber is a larger unit, measuring about 18 inches long, so installation is a bit more difficult, and it also uses compressed air to operate, and could be a source of contamination, such as moisture etc. The unit must be manually activated under the hood!
IT DOES HAVE A LARGER CAPACITY... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... but is it needed?

Wayne
amsoilman

Hey Wayne, the Accumulator does not need compressed air to operate, it uses a sealed piston that is displaced under oil pressure which compresses the air on the back side of the seal. Then either the mechanical valve or a solinoid controled valve closes.

At that point the gauge shows the amount of air pressure on the backside of the oil seal. When the valve opens the air pressure pushes the oil into the engine.

This unit was originally marketed to racers to gaurentee oil pressure should the pickup become uncovered due to G forces, one of the reasons for the manual shutoff.

I have seen these for sale with electric solinoids included, but can't remember where.

 

[amsoilman]

Hey Wayne, the Accumulator does not need compressed air to operate, it uses a sealed piston that is displaced under oil pressure which compresses the air on the back side of the seal. Then either the mechanical valve or a solinoid controled valve closes.



At that point the gauge shows the amount of air pressure on the backside of the oil seal. When the valve opens the air pressure pushes the oil into the engine.



This unit was originally marketed to racers to gaurentee oil pressure should the pickup become uncovered due to G forces, one of the reasons for the manual shutoff.



I have seen these for sale with electric solinoids included, but can't remember where.

GOOD INFO!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Hey Wayne, the Accumulator does not need compressed air to operate, it uses a sealed piston that is displaced under oil pressure which compresses the air on the back side of the seal. Then either the mechanical valve or a solinoid controled valve closes.



At that point the gauge shows the amount of air pressure on the backside of the oil seal. When the valve opens the air pressure pushes the oil into the engine.



This unit was originally marketed to racers to gaurentee oil pressure should the pickup become uncovered due to G forces, one of the reasons for the manual shutoff.



I have seen these for sale with electric solinoids included, but can't remember where. "



IF anyone ever comes up with a brand name for one of those, please post it - I'd really like to check them out...



Prelubing IS a good idea, as long as there's enough oil capacity provided to truly displace ALL the accumulated air from overnite oil drain-back.

 

[Hemiless]

Accusump

Gary the brand I know about is called accusump I have never used one my self but they can be purchased at Pegasus Racing. Attached is the link to pegasus product page for Accusump. Accusump If that dosen't work for you go to www.pegasusautoracing.com

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Thanks Nathan - more specifically, here's a pointer directly to the prelubers:



http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=OILACCUS

 

[amsoilman]

Thanks Nathan - more specifically, here's a pointer directly to the prelubers:



http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=OILACCUS

Gary, Here is the one from Amsoil.



http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/amk.aspx

 

[ENafziger]

I guess I'll bring this one back up...

Has anyone installed one of these systems? From my understanding, there is no pump on this system; rather, it simply delivers a little 160 c3 shot of oil, and has to be recharged by the engine's oil pump after it starts... is this correct?

Because of some disturbing wear that I found at only 57k miles, I'm contemplating adding a pre-oiling system. However, I would like to have something that incorporated an electric pump. This way, I could have the electric pump run for 20 seconds or so until oil pressure was verified on the gauge, and then the truck could be started. I would also like to use it on a timer for a post-oiler, to allow oil to be circulated through turbo bearings, etc for a few minutes after shut down.

This may sound like overkill, but I just can't seem to get to the place where I feel compfortable with the longevity of this truck. I've been running Schaeffer's 9000 5w-40 oil, Donaldson Endurance oil filter, OilGaurd bypass filter, and FilterMag magnets on the primary... and still, the Blackstone reports come back indicating high wear with only 8,000 miles on the oil.

When doing a partial tear-down and inspection of the engine last weekend, I saw evidence of above normal wear as well on the rockers and trunnions.

Does anyone know of a true pre-oiling kit that will allow oil to be pumped up to pressure before starting? The 160 c3 shot that the Amsoil Oiler only gives around 10 tablespoons of oil, or about 2/3 of a cup... that doesn't seem real assuring to me.

--Eric

 

[amsoilman]

I guess I'll bring this one back up...



Has anyone installed one of these systems? From my understanding, there is no pump on this system; rather, it simply delivers a little 160 c3 shot of oil, and has to be recharged by the engine's oil pump after it starts... is this correct?



Because of some disturbing wear that I found at only 57k miles, I'm contemplating adding a pre-oiling system. However, I would like to have something that incorporated an electric pump. This way, I could have the electric pump run for 20 seconds or so until oil pressure was verified on the gauge, and then the truck could be started. I would also like to use it on a timer for a post-oiler, to allow oil to be circulated through turbo bearings, etc for a few minutes after shut down.



This may sound like overkill, but I just can't seem to get to the place where I feel compfortable with the longevity of this truck. I've been running Schaeffer's 9000 5w-40 oil, Donaldson Endurance oil filter, OilGaurd bypass filter, and FilterMag magnets on the primary... and still, the Blackstone reports come back indicating high wear with only 8,000 miles on the oil.



When doing a partial tear-down and inspection of the engine last weekend, I saw evidence of above normal wear as well on the rockers and trunnions.



Does anyone know of a true pre-oiling kit that will allow oil to be pumped up to pressure before starting? The 160 c3 shot that the Amsoil Oiler only gives around 10 tablespoons of oil, or about 2/3 of a cup... that doesn't seem real assuring to me.



--Eric

I have had one of the Amsoil Pre-oilers on my CTD, and it did show a pressure on the the gauge. However having said that, I have also heard reports that there was no pressure shown on the gauge, but this was on a different application, not on a CTD. The Amsoiler has a 100 lb. spring inside that forces the oil out prior to starting.



As far as pre-oiling goes, the valve trunnions/rockers (as you call them) are not going to be affected, as they are not pressurized as I understand.



Wayne

 

[2Rowdy]

I have the FS-2500 and I am very happy with it.

 

[ENafziger]

As far as pre-oiling goes, the valve trunnions/rockers (as you call them) are not going to be affected, as they are not pressurized as I understand.

Hey Wayne!

Thanks for the reply. However, I'm almost confident that during engine operation, there is positive oil flow through the rockers and trunions. You can trace the oil feed from the head, through the rocker pedastal, around the rocker shaft bolts, diagonally through the trunions, through the annular region on each end of the trunion, through the end bores of the rockers, and then out through the swivel cap that rides on the crosshead.

The wear that I'm seeing in these areas is enough to make me want to do something about it. I'm aware of the 100 psi max spring pressure, but it's the 2/3 of a cup of oil that concerns me... while it may be enough to provide some benefit, it simply couldn't be enough to provide full flow oil to 12 individual rockers, and the be split two ways through to the trunions.

Furthermore, I'd like to use the system for post-lubing of the engine... particularly the turbo, etc. I have a novel idea of how to accomplish this, and am willing to piece together a kit; nonetheless, considering my frantic paced life, I was wanting to see if such a product already existed.

--Eric

 

[tgordon]

Might check these out. They are built for airplanes, but will accomplish what you are wanting to.



Oilamatic Inc. Aircraft Engine Preoiler and Lubrication Systems

 

[amsoilman]

Might check these out. They are built for airplanes, but will accomplish what you are wanting to.



Oilamatic Inc. Aircraft Engine Preoiler and Lubrication Systems

Pretty pricey for our trucks.