Engine brake for 2005 with 48re

[GSonnek]

I am looking for the best engine brake option available for my 2005 2500 4X4. I am seeing alot of info that says I can not do it on a 2005?

Thanks

GSonnek

 

[cerberusiam]

PAC Brake is probably the best brake option. There is no phyical reason why it cannot be installed and made to work. However, controlling the transmission is the hard part. You need a controller that will drop OD when the EB engages. Not all of them do that and an 05 does not have that as a native option.

At a minimum it requires a shift kit to ramp pressures to adequately handle the extra stresses generated at closed throttle. Once you upgrade the transmission that is probably adequate in most cases, the exception would over weights and long usage times. The one thing that I cannot verify is TTVA control, not sure any controller does it.

 

[p-Bar]

Check this one out



http://www.dieselperformance.com/index.php/product/index/26P

 

[RustyJC]

You also must ensure that the torque converter is locked up whenever the exhaust brake is engaged. Otherwise, all you'll do is generate torque converter slip and heat in the automatic transmission fluid.



Rusty

 

[richardcoxid]

Contrary to what everybody says and before folks said that you couldn’t install a EB on a auto transmission D/C I installed a BD EB on my stock ’98 and a manual TC lock up switch and they worked perfectly for 200,000+ miles.



I then installed a Pac Brake PRXB on my stock ‘05 and it has worked perfectly for 100,000+ miles. I also think that the PRXB controller will solve most of the “TCC problems” that others have stated.



The ’05 auto and only the ’05 has a stupid shift logic. The best thing to do when shifting down and using the EB when starting a long descent- With your foot OFF the go peddle and the EB off, depress the tow/haul button, after the downshift to third and the EB controller causes the TCC to lock up, then you can use the EB as necessary.

The problem with the ’05 shift logic is that when tow/haul and the EB "on" anytime that you touch the go peddle the transmission will up shift back to 4th, which is annoying if you have a short flat stretch or a slight uphill before starting the next down grade.

 

[SDputter]

I have a Banks EB on my stock 2005 2500 4x4 Auto. My kit has 2 toggle switches, one turns the EB on or off, the other is a 4th gear lock out switch. I'm towing about 15K and on a 6% grade for several miles (that usually has a tailwind) I touch the trailer brakes maybe once or twice, to keep it at 60, never the truck brakes. No tail wind, I have stayed below 60 without any braking.

 

[GSonnek]

Thanks for the info I will call Pac Brake tomorrow and see what I can learn from them.

Thanks all of you for the help.

 

[WalterJ]

I have a Banks EB on my stock 2005 2500 4x4 Auto. My kit has 2 toggle switches, one turns the EB on or off, the other is a 4th gear lock out switch. I'm towing about 15K and on a 6% grade for several miles (that usually has a tailwind) I touch the trailer brakes maybe once or twice, to keep it at 60, never the truck brakes. No tail wind, I have stayed below 60 without any braking.

I would contact the engineers @ Banks for their input. I believe their technical competence is exceptional.

 

[jelag]

Rusty TC has the right idea... as a pacbrake installer for almost 20 years... . we found that the when the throttle drops to idle, the ECM drops the pump pressure in the transmission to almost zero... basically the TC is in neutral allowing to fully slip... just like the truck was sitting at a stop light... there is so much slippage you couldn't transfer the power through the transmission to the engine...

When we installed pacbrakes on autos... we followed pacbrakes guidelines... and used their unit to lock the TC during d-acceleration... If they didn't recommend and exhaust brake on the truck we just didn't do it... when they had the complete kit we sold and installed them... . we never had a problem...

Eventually Cummins changed the ECM to allow for TC lockup without the kit... .

 

[cerberusiam]

The TC lockup function has never been a problem, from the inception of the lockup transmission the controllers were capable of locking the TC to provide braking. What none of them could do was ramp TV pressures for holding power whne the EB was activated. Once the throttle goes to rest the apply pressures in the transmission go to minimum and a stock system simply will not hold. Enter triple disk TC's, shift kits, mechanical lnkage to control TV pressures, and VB mods.

Prior to 05 it was relatively simple to add the componeents needed to make the transmission compatible with EB usage. The 05 and up trucks are a different critter, there is no way to physically ramp the TV pressure and no one has bothered to create the electronic controls for the TTVA motor. The 05's have no options, the 06 and 07 trucks have software installed by Dodge that does manage the power train to some degree but it is not as good as it could be.

The stock 05 transmission is totally inadequate to handle anything more than an occasinal 1 or 2 second blip of the EB in the 50-60 mph range. Anymore than that will just destroy the transmission without modifications like a TC and shift kit. Even then it still can't downshift the trans to 2ng gear to bring a heavily loaded truck down to 20-25 mph with the EB, the system just kicks out once minimum rpm is reached. It can be done but there are mods to the trans required for adequate functionality.

 

[RustyJC]

The TC lockup function has never been a problem, from the inception of the lockup transmission the controllers were capable of locking the TC to provide braking.

I don't believe anyone is debating that. The question is, (1. ) does the PCM (no TCM in 2005, right?) routinely lock the torque converter during deceleration and (2. ) is the PCM/exhaust brake control system communicating to ensure that the EB function doesn't occur with the torque converter unlocked?



If the torque converter routinely locked during deceleration on the 47RE and 48RE, then why the need for the "mystery switch" and other kludges to command the lockup function when exhaust brakes were used?



Rusty

 

[cerberusiam]

I don't believe anyone is debating that.

Unfortunately most of the posts centered around that point, yours included. The TC lockup is NOT the issue, the PAC controller, BD's controller, and the ATS co-Pilot all take care of that function. You MUST use a lockup controller on an 05.



Yes, there is a TCM in an 05. It is integrated into the ECU as a seprate virtual module and is totally unaware of an EB being on, off, or otherwise. There is no way to communicate to the TCM in an 05 an EB is being used, the routines do not exist. The EB controller must perform these functions.



The problem is complicated by the fact the 05 has no OD lockout. You cannot run the EB in OD, it has very little effect on braking and will easily destroy the OD unit if used too much. The EB controller must also drop OD when the EB is engaged and control the TC lockup, otherwise the driver must cycle the OD button or manually drop OD with an add on box. That gets even more complicated becuase OD cannot be dropped until the TC is unlocked, or, the VB modified to allow locked to locked shifts. The only other way to achieve an auto downshift is set the CC 10 mph under the speed you want to maintain and let the trans downshift befire applying the EB.



I think the Co-Pilot and the BD TQ Loc handle these functions, as much as I can derive form their install instruction it looks like they are wiring in those features. The PAC controller only looks to do TC control, that is not enough on an 05.



All this is moot whne talking about a stock transmission. At 0 throttle input the TV pressure is ramped back to idle pressures which is not enough to hold the clutches and TC clutch in heavy braking, it cooks them. Ideally one would want all the TV pressure available, around 110-120 psi in a stock unit applied once the EB activates. The only way to do that is control the TTVA motor and that does not seem to be available in any of the controllers. The fix for that is a shift kit to ramp those initial pressures so even at closed throttle you still have around 100-120 psi at rpm and use either a good single disk or triple disk TC to hold better.



Remember, a lot of the impetus for a triple disk TC wasn't hold power going forward it was holding the TC clutch in deceleration under load. They worked really well holding the power because the same aspects apply but in the mid 90's the diesel power thing was just taking off and the bulk of the problems were centered around towing not big power.



An EB can used on an 05 but it takes some more work to make it solid. A year earlier or a year later and it is a lot easier to accomplish.

 

[RustyJC]

You MUST use a lockup controller on an 05.

Good grief!! The above is the ONLY point I was attempting to make.



Rusty

 

[cerberusiam]

Good grief!! The above is the ONLY point I was attempting to make.

LOL, but that is not what the OP asked and not what the major problem IS. It is only one piece of the puzzle. :-laf

 

[GSonnek]

I believe you guys have talked me out of putting the EB on my 2005, and start shopping for a newer truck!!!
My 05 does everything I need it to. Handles our 2012 Big Country 3250TS just fine on the flatlands here in Minnesota. We want to spend more time out west on the big grades. We need to do something about an EB!

 

[cerberusiam]

I believe you guys have talked me out of putting the EB on my 2005, and start shopping for a newer truck!!!

From an easy stand point, new truck is about as easy as it gets.

 

[GSonnek]

What is the difference between just downshifting to 2nd to slow down as I am doing now and doing the same with an EB?

 

[p-Bar]

A diesel doesn't have the same characteristics as a gas engine does. Though it helps some the exhaust brake makes a significant difference.

 

[Prairie Dog]

The difference is back pressure. With the EB you have a lot more of it because the air in the cylinder is not being allowed to escape every time it goes through an exhaust stroke.

 

[GSonnek]

I guess what I mean is the difference on the trans abuse with or without EB when you down shift?