Are 12 valves really bringing this king of money or is the dealer off their rocker?

[Flinty]

For fun I looked at a new 2017 Dodge big enough to replace my '97 2500. The price was about 50k. After incentives and negotiations 40k if I'm lucky. Plus I would have to put def in it. Plus I would have to pay the taxes on it for 11years before I could license it permanently here in MT. Plus I would have to buy 18" tires for it. Plus it would get 15mpg at best vs 18 -20 in my 97. If the white 3500 is a 98 QC I'd offer 18k and it would be worth every penny considering a 2018 dual rear wheel diesel is probably 60 thousand dollars now.

 

[KATOOM]

Yes..... These older 2nd gens are bringing in top dollar used sales. Remember, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and if people are looking for smogless, good fuel mileage, tuneable, no BS, totally capable trucks then you can be sure that KBB is out of the value loop here.

Not to mention that new diesels are problematic with all the ever changing emissions garbage which requires constant expensive upkeep, but insurance costs are higher, registration is higher, and..........the sticker shock is upwards well over $65,000 - $70,000 !!!!!

Lastly, to prove my point, my neighbor with a 2001 with just over 100k miles just had his stolen right out of his country driveway. Note, his house is miles from town and there are literally hundreds of cars/trucks between here and town to choose from, and you have to be pretty ballsy to come all the way in his driveway. Sooooo it seems someone was specifically looking for THIS truck.

 

[Gumby79]

Dealer has a deal with his employees if a car sits on a lot over X number a days the employees get an employee discount, can buy it at cost. so the employee marked it up so it would sit, so he could get the really good deal on the truck. Just a guess. Some mention of Alaska is that where this thing is? In which case it's a little harder to just bring one over. This would increase the premium on the price and there aren't very many extras laying around for sale.

Paid 10k no haggling for my 91.5 IC 1st gen 242k mi (350ish now)Factory primer gray on one side and the top slightly redish. white on the other no dings no dents all original sheet metal not a drop of anything leaking anywhere on the motor, transmission, drivetrain. Exquisite maintenance by previous 3 owners 2 of them in the same family. Finally converting me from gas to dirty disgusting shmoo covered diesel engine because this one wasn't, it was just as clean as gas still is 3years later. Nothing worse than a dog that dribbles all over your carpet incontinence sucks in a truck.

 

[Bigredhappypill]

I bought my 2000 2500 4x4 new and I intend to keep it. Repairing the typical mechanical issues is far less than a payment on a new one. I feel sorry for the young guys with new truckidis, truck cost has risen faster than salary over the past 20 years. I plan to restore mine to like new someday way down the road.

 

[SSage]

Looks like the 95 I bought in NC. Mine is a 2wd and it had a brush guard on it with full running boards and a high rise bed cap. I think it had 23k on it back in 2005 maybe, asking price was 14k. Paid 12k, it needed originall Goodyear tires replaced and also it was in need front brakes I found out later. But, I still think it was worth the $12,000, the 160 hp auto trans combo was totally dry and untouched. 23 mpg average till I modified it.

It's 2018 though, the 2nd generation trucks really need attention at that age, cracking dashes, weatherstrips, broken down seats, peeling paint etc. I only have 95k miles on mine, it's still fairly decent for an old beater. A/C and cruise still work.

 

[Tractorat]

It's 2018 though, the 2nd generation trucks really need attention at that age, cracking dashes, weatherstrips, broken down seats, peeling paint etc. I only have 95k miles on mine, it's still fairly decent for an old beater. A/C and cruise still work.

My truck is an 02, and has none of that. Something going on with the paint on the hood, but not peeling off. Other than that it is in great shape. Not a beater at all. Beaters are probably not worth a lot, just like any beater vehicle. PM and care always pay off.

 

[Matt42]

My freshly painted 95 must be worth bank! :-laf

Don: The paint job on your 1995 is great. Where did you get your bumper? My 1996 has Arizona Paint Disease, meaning that where the paint has not evaporated, it is coming off in sheets and flakes.

 

[SSage]

A beater to me is a truck over 10 years old and worked hard. Something I don't care if it gets scratched. All my trucks have faded paint after 6 year or so, Dodge dashes crack bad IMO. I keep my carpet dash cover on 100%, use sun visors when parked and they still crack all up. The 2003 has been repainted and after about 6 years its wearing through in places once again, probably its the black paint in the hot South East. The seats still look decent, only 106K on it.

I would look for an early 3rd gen truck myself at that price. I've had good performance from my mostly stock 305 hp 2003. Very little problems, much better tow rig. Better brakes, better cab, better ride than my 2nd gen. I like how a modified 12 valve runs, if the 3rd gen was modified like the 2nd gen I would probably prefer the newer truck. But, the old 95 is so simple to work on. Condition is everything! I never did much to the 3rd gen, it runs good as is. The edge juice went bad, so its running stock with a air dog pump on it. Its been a great truck except for the Air Conditioner issues.

 

[Gumby79]

A Beater is something that is not normally trusted to cross State line as it probably won't make it back. There's a difference between old, and old and dilapidated 150k on my 91 in 3 years ran the governor 87.14mph at Bonneville and wouldn't hesitate to pull 10k lbs coast to coast . Only non maintenance/update itom on the truck is a 16cm BD housing .

 

[DonFitzwater]

Don: The paint job on your 1995 is great. Where did you get your bumper? My 1996 has Arizona Paint Disease, meaning that where the paint has not evaporated, it is coming off in sheets and flakes.

Ranch Hand is who made the bumpers.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

If you buy a first or second gen, as soon as you get it home put on a 3 piece exhaust manifold and retain the killer dowel pin. Especially if fueling was turned up, expect cracks in the head of a 12 valve. I loved my 97, worked on it a lot, but will keep my 2013, thank you very much.

 

[Gumby79]

If you buy a first or second gen, as soon as you get it home put on a 3 piece exhaust manifold and retain the killer dowel pin. Especially if fueling was turned up, expect cracks in the head of a 12 valve. I loved my 97, worked on it a lot, but will keep my 2013, thank you very much.

Why /were are the crack prone areas? What preventative measures to prevent said cracked head? Is it lack of coolent flow ? 350k I replaced a failed oil cooler tested the oil soaked coolant(2.5ga oil transfered to coolent in 150 mi) for hydrocarbons to rule out cracked head or block prior to removing the oil cooler, cooler had a gross failure split plates clean open.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I as I recall the heads only cracked because of shrinking exhaust manifolds. Putting on a 2 piece or 3 piece manifold cured the problem. As a side note the trucks that had manifold problems were turned way up ( 400 vp44 and higher).

 

[Missouri Mule]

As for stolen trucks. This my solution a towing company in town asked me why other tow trucks could not move my Mule( I had to leave at business, probably family emergency and took my mom's car). Back you pride and joy in so they can not lift it up from the back.( This works for my truck 5spd 4×4. You can do some thing similar. When I cut the engine. I put in 4 wheel low, put in reverse and put the parking brake on.
Mule is always there when I come back to get him no matter where I park him.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Why /were are the crack prone areas? What preventative measures to prevent said cracked head? Is it lack of coolent flow ? 350k I replaced a failed oil cooler tested the oil soaked coolant(2.5ga oil transfered to coolent in 150 mi) for hydrocarbons to rule out cracked head or block prior to removing the oil cooler, cooler had a gross failure split plates clean open.

My experience with 12 valve engines has been anything that has been worked hard or has over 250k miles will have cracks between valve seats and injector bore. You’ll never know it as it doesn’t affect engine running but no machine shop will rebuild the head. Hell, new complete heads are less than 1000.00 so not a big deal.

 

[The patriot]

Hell, new complete heads are less than 1000.00 so not a big deal.

Cummins castings, or offshore?
Seems like cummins castings with the 7mm bore are getting harder to find.
Then there's the swirl & non swirl. I'm not even sure which we use?

 

[DonFitzwater]

Cummins castings, or offshore?
Seems like cummins castings with the 7mm bore are getting harder to find.
Then there's the swirl & non swirl. I'm not even sure which we use?

I'm not sure who's selling them on the wholesaler level, I purchased it from my local machine shop. The heads are from Tupy, Brazil. That last one I got was for a coworker and it was less than 1k with a full top gasket set. It was fully assembled with valves and springs.

 

[The patriot]

That's reasonable.

 

[DonFitzwater]

I called my machine shop and their distributor for heads is Engine Quest. They have a 24 valve listed but I didn't see a 12 valve......probably have to call them for availability.

 

[Tuesdak]

Dealer has a deal with his employees if a car sits on a lot over X number a days the employees get an employee discount, can buy it at cost. so the employee marked it up so it would sit, so he could get the really good deal on the truck. Just a guess. Some mention of Alaska is that where this thing is? In which case it's a little harder to just bring one over. This would increase the premium on the price and there aren't very many extras laying around for sale.

Paid 10k no haggling for my 91.5 IC 1st gen 242k mi (350ish now)Factory primer gray on one side and the top slightly redish. white on the other no dings no dents all original sheet metal not a drop of anything leaking anywhere on the motor, transmission, drivetrain. Exquisite maintenance by previous 3 owners 2 of them in the same family. Finally converting me from gas to dirty disgusting shmoo covered diesel engine because this one wasn't, it was just as clean as gas still is 3years later. Nothing worse than a dog that dribbles all over your carpet incontinence sucks in a truck.

That there is not an oil leak... It's just dripping POWER! When some of my stuff quits leaking oil it means it has run out!