2005 new to me 6 speed trouble

[Dieseldad2015]

So I just bought a 2005 4x4 Quad cab with a nv5600 6 speed , probelm is first thing in the morning it shifts into gear fine but as it warms up I have a hard getting into gear from a stand still when idling , once in gear its shifts fine no grinding or noise . Took it to dealer to have a fluid change and when I pick it up they told that they could only get 4 quarts in it , and also that their tech thinks the probelm is sycron's failing . I'm gonna add more fluid to it , but could sycronizers cause this ?
Truck has 188000 on it

 

[AH64ID]

Which clutch is in it?

 

[Dieseldad2015]

Don't know

 

[AH64ID]

I know that I have a similar issue at times but I never did with the OEM clutch but it happened almost instantly with my SBC Con-OFE.

 

[Dieseldad2015]

Pretty sure it's not a stock clutch , truck has twins , edge CST and sure higher Hp injectors , truck has a LOT of power and can't slip clutch

 

[JasonMcNabb]

Take time and make sure you have a full 6 litres in it. Then drive the truck for a bit getting used to the transmission. It is not a quick shifter. A good way to get used to a trans is once rolling from a stop treat it like a class 8 truck trans don't use the clutch for shifting other than to break torque and initiate the shifts. You will find you have to pay more attention initally to get the timing correct for each gear change.

As for the having trouble getting it in gear when idling there could be a couple problems. Do you have stock clutch hydraulics? If not then change it out to the south bend kit. Despite the fact they say it comes all prefilled and bled .... do it again. I got two more small bubbles out of my prebled southbend kit. The size and mass of this transmission and the fact it does not have trans brake on it like a class 8 truck means after pushing down the clutch count 1 mississippi.. 2 mississippi... 3 mississippi... before trying for a gear. Those rotating shafts don't stop right away for you to pick a gear.

I have over 300k on my NV5600 and recently had trans out to check the clutch. Opened up the trans and it's all perfect so far. I am sure I'll make 500k on mine yet.

The secret to this is change the oil in the trans by removing one of the PTO covers every 30 to 40k. Always fill the trans through the shift tower on top and put in six litres (more than stock but if you try 7 litres it runs too warm). It takes like a minute to pull the console and shifter to pour in the fluid and really is the best time to clean up the console and wash it all up too. Use the correct fluid. I have used both Chrysler and Amsoil oils in mine, and I am sure there are others out there who have favorites.

The final rule with this transmission is never tow anything over 3000lbs in 6th gear...ever! Use direct drive only for towing... 5th.

I have a temp sender mounted in one PTO cover and when the truck is working hard it is nothing to easily push the temp up over 230 degF. Using 6th gear to tow with will cook your oil in no time. Too much horsepower and torque through a transmission that should have been pressure lubricated and externally cooled.

Its an awsome transmission but needs to be taken care of and serviced regularly. If you want a fast shifting stick then go buy a sports car. The size and mass of the shafts in this transmission is easily hard on the syncos when shifts are pushed. It takes a moment to change the speed on these larger rotating masses. Don't rush the shifts. If you think you have a hot truck and want to race at the lights I am afraid this is not the transmission for that.

Good Luck.

 

[Dieseldad2015]

Thanks for the reply , the only probelm I have is once the transmission gets warmed up good it's really hard to get in to any gear while stopped and idling , say if I get out to hook up a trailer t

 

[lpennock]

Try holding shifter against the gear before pushing in the clutch. I had same type issue with my dual disc. My theory is there is enough plate drag to make the transmission think the clutch isn't released yet. Preloading the shifter adds enough drag to allow every thing to sync.

 

[JasonMcNabb]

When you changed the oil on the trans how much brass sludge was in the bottom? The syncros are brass right? Those filings won't stick to magnets? There is always a brass slime in the bottom when I service mine and I try to wipe as much as reasonable out with a clean rag before closing up the covers. It does sound like poor syncros.

I guess if you end up pulling the trans then you also will be able to inspect the clutch before opening up the trans and spending money on it. Either way you will have your hands on the problem parts.

If you really like the truck and can afford it pull the trans and clutch and put in good pieces then you will have regained confidence in your truck. Otherwise its all a guessing game.

 

[Grizzly]

I also have a 2005 3500 DRW with the NV 5600. I've never had a problem with the transmission, it's never been difficult shifting, I have never over filled with oil and it's made two trips to Alaska without an issue. Last trip was June, July and part of Aug of this year. In fact I have never had an issue with any part of the truck and it's never been in the shop for anything, other than two recalls.

What's the purpose of overfilling.

What's the purpose of changing the trans oil more often than what's recommended on the owners guide?

What's so wrong with using 6th gear for pulling a 5th wheel. Yes, if I'm going uphill, any hill pulling the 5th wheel, I will downshift. If I'm below 1500 RPM, I will downshift.

Before this truck I purchased a new 95 Dodge with the 12 valve Cummins and the NV4500 5 speed and it too made a trip to Alaska. No issues with it either. Not even the 5th gear nut problem that's so common with the 5 speed.

george

 

[JasonMcNabb]

The purpose of over filling is (and someone correct me if I am incorrect) to ensure proper lubrication of the upper shaft... rear bearings? Splash lubrication is marginal. I think Standard Transmission guys might be the experts on this. But too much oil is also poor. I have tried 7 litres and found it runs hotter as there is more air entrainment (foaming) which reduces heat transfer of oil to the case. Six litres is a good balance between heat dissapation and adequate lubrication.

I change the oil on my interval of roughly once a year which works out somewhere between 20 to 40k. With magnets being useless to capture brass from the syncros and no filtration occuring then the high wear components being the syncros ... this is my conclusion: change the oil to change out the contaminants. Owners guide service intervals are written from the standpoint of people using their trucks as cars and living on pavement. I live among the minority where 90% of my driving is on gravel and dirt roads and the trucks are used as trucks. I also service my automatic transmissions in my two half tons once a year too, which is about the same interval.

One thing about towing with the NV5600: Temperature!!!! I have a temp sender mounted on the one PTO cover and have learned that this is a very hot transmission. Any amount of load easily moves the temperature over 220F! Any amount of time at these temps or higher will dramatically cook the oils in there. Towing in 5th seems to keep it in the 180 to 200F range even tied to 22k sized loads at 65 mph. Towing in 5th has nothing to do with engine rpm or power it is for temperature regulation in the transmission. My comments are only pertinent to the NV5600. I have a G5600 in my 10 but yet to put a temp sender in it but hope to get around to it.

I think this transmission was originally designed to have pressure lubrication and external cooling when offered to Chrysler and I suspect that they were told to cheapen it up and eliminate those components. I am guessing here but there is a lot of power being transmitted in these very small gearboxes and that much power transfer will generate heat and without a way to shed the heat at a rate equal to or better than it's being generated then there will be problems in the long term.

Without the knowledge of the temps occuring in my NV5600 I would not have formed these thoughts. I hope this helps.

 

[Grizzly]

Thank you Jason. It does help.

george

 

[Tuesdak]

The OP's issue has bad pilot bearing keeping the transmission spinning with the clutch in written all over it.

The rear bearing doesn't get enough oil with the stock level and tends to get hot and lock up when towing. It then can crack the case when it spins. Standard Transmission is the expert at this as well as a power lube package with oil spit holes put in some gears. Standard Transmission added oil till the mainshaft was submerged and came up with overfill advice. Others may have as well.

The syncromesh nature of the transmission with every gear always meshed and spinning badly shears down even AMSOIL. I read about 30K being enough miles for some and the UOA for mine at 50K was near a 10 weight rather than the 30 weight it was supposed to be! Parts are hard to find and expensive - The owner's manual was revised from lifetime lube and even 50K is too long to run the oil. The OEM doesn't care as long as it makes it out of warranty and all of them want to 'sell' low or zero maintenance vehicles. The 1 million mile HD trucks are beyond their imaginations. "Oh Wow it made 1 million miles!?" 200K is the upper limit of their thinking with many stuck at 100K and now less with shrinking warranties. So take the owner's manual with a grain of salt and I suggest the advice on the TDR trumps the owner's manual.

Trans coolers are available as well as a string filter to help keep things cool and clean.

More info:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/219902-NV5600-temp

 

[AH64ID]

The OP's issue has bad pilot bearing keeping the transmission spinning with the clutch in written all over it.

While possible I really doubt it.

I am on my 2nd pilot bearing, and throw-out bearing, and the issue is identical with the new bearings. I blame the clutch as it showed up instantly with the different clutch.

 

[lpennock]

Could be the splines are over tight keeping the clutch plate from releasing when you push in the clutch. A burr will do that.

 

[Dieseldad2015]

Once warmed I have to push the pedal into the carpet I mean really push it and it shifts into gear fine

 

[lpennock]

Sure you have the pedal height set correctly?

 

[DClark]

Boy I don't know. My '05 has the much berated G56, but I've never had any of these problems. It is at Standard T. to be overhauled, but that is due to the pilot bearing going out and taking the in-put shaft out. When you get a new clutch be sure to get an up-graded pilot bearing. good luck on the NV5600.
DClark

 

[Chief USA]

Something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TDS-PTO-Coo...ade-/201429216058?hash=item2ee61deb3a&vxp=mtr

can make fluid changes sooooooooo much easier and no hassle of adding oil through the shift tower. You can add a cooler if you choose.

I am about to change my transmission fluid in my NV5600. I am going to try a synthetic 50 wt. transmission oil. If it turns out to be too think for Winter use or makes shifting worse, I will try a mix of Redline MTL of Amsoil MTL to thin it out some.

The folks at High Gear Transmission:

https://highgeartransmission.wordpress.com/tag/nv5600-6-speed-transmission/

tell me they have done about 250 NV5600 rebuilds and use Mobil Delvac Synthetic Gear Lube 50 wt.

http://thelubricantstore.com/mobil-delvac-syn-trans-fluid-50-pail.html

exclusively and have never had a transmission come back due to lubrication issues. My local petroleum distributor handles Phillips 66 so I got Triton Synthetic Gear Oil 50 wt. :

http://www.phillips66lubricants.com/brands-products/Single.aspx?pid=186&brand=Phillips+66

As far as the shifting issues you are currently having, a number of good ideas have already been put out there. You might want to take a look at the FAQ's and troubleshooting on Southbend's website:

http://www.southbendclutch.com/faq.html

http://www.southbendclutch.com/troubleshooting.html

If no luck there, you might try calling Peter at Southbend and run your issues by him.

 

[AH64ID]

Are you sure they use Mobil Delvac 50 in the NV5600? It is not a synchromesh fluid and would destroy NV5600 synchro's.

It is a great G56 fluid thou.