2500 vs 3500

[JTurk]

DIESELMAN You have just written the DC advertisement anyone ever could!



You've said with, eloquence, what I was unable to.



I also left 2/3 of the rear tread on a new pair of Coopers on the Alcan in a 6. 7Kmile trip. That was towing our 10K lb. 29'er plus about 1. 5K under the canopy (something you can't do with a 5th wheel). Oh, I did have a Banks PowerPack on the old '96 2500! I will admit that the 04. 5 DRW can't pull as hard, but sure drives better.

 

[abdiver]

towing spec's for a year 2005, model 3500,

Bertram is right, they are essentially the same, although the DRW weighs a little more, and therefore its towing capacity is slightly less, its irrelevent.



But then specs are B. S. , like the Ford F350 claiming 19,200lbs towing capacity,is right, they are essentially the same

Fella's, Sorry I was not more specific. I just thougth someone would refer me to a site with where I could look up the info

I will reask the Question

What are towing spec's for a year 2005, model 3500,with a Cummins, Single Rear Wheel Dodge,Long bed, 4x4, 6spd, 3. 73 rear end.



I personally would not even consider a short bed a truck



As far as parking a dually heck, I drove a 10wh dump truck with a 24' trailer loaded with a D6 even parked it a time or two. Drove on narrow curvey roads that would pucker a few of ya, flatlanders. So a parking a Dually don't scare me. Its like someone said on this site horses for courses Personally I use the phrase "Right tool for the right Job". If I need a dually I would buy one even though they are butt ugly.

Oh by the way anyone got the spec's for a Dodge year 2005, model 3500,with a Cummins, Single Rear Wheel Dodge,Long bed, 4x4, 6spd, 3. 73 rear end.

 

[klenger]

abdiver: According to the 2004 towing guide, the towing specs for your configuration are:

GVWR: 9900

Payload: 2610

Base Curb Weight: 7286

GAWR Front: 5200

GAWR Rear: 6150

GCWR: 21,000

Max Trailer Wt: 13,550



I don't think that there are any significant changes between the 2004 and 2005 models (with the exception of the new 6 speed which has not delivered yet as far as I know), so these numbers should be pretty close.

 

[CUMMINZ]

towing with 2500/3500

I know that my 2004. 5 CTD QC shortbed 2500 is a tough truck and feels like it could pull down a house but there are still qualities that a 3500 dooly has that my truck does not have. A QC dooly is longer and has 2 extra pieces is rubber on the ground which means the difference between life and death during a panic stop. To many folks on all the diesel forums talk about pulling power and don't often mention how they came out of a panic stop on a crowded interstate.

 

[Bertram65]

I know that my 2004. 5 CTD QC shortbed 2500 is a tough truck and feels like it could pull down a house but there are still qualities that a 3500 dooly has that my truck does not have. A QC dooly is longer and has 2 extra pieces is rubber on the ground which means the difference between life and death during a panic stop. To many folks on all the diesel forums talk about pulling power and don't often mention how they came out of a panic stop on a crowded interstate.

If you are towing heavy the trailer brakes are going to be stonger than the truck brakes as the trailer will far outweigh the truck. If the trailer's brakes are setup correctly having dual rear wheels on the truck will not make any difference as the truck and trailer will brake together, the trailer should not be pushing the truck even in a panic stop.

 

[DPelletier]

If you are towing heavy the trailer brakes are going to be stonger than the truck brakes as the trailer will far outweigh the truck. If the trailer's brakes are setup correctly having dual rear wheels on the truck will not make any difference as the truck and trailer will brake together, the trailer should not be pushing the truck even in a panic stop.

Actually, according to the RCMP accident investigator (in a course I took), significant amounts of braking are done by the tow vehicle due to weight transfer. We were talking about Class 8 tractor/trailers, but the physics are the same. An empty truck will be able to panic stop in a shorter distance than a trailer (even with the trailer brakes locked) therefore the truck "helps" significantly with the braking of the combined unit.

That having been said, I doubt the DRW stops much better than the SRW as 70% of the braking is done by the front brakes on the tow vehicle and weight transfer likely unloads enough weight of the rear axle as to make the contact patch irrelevant.

Again, stability is the primary advantage of the DRW IMO, not braking; but I reiterate: buy what you need SRW and DRW both have thier uses, that's why I have both.



Dave

 

[JHardwick]

I'm gonna be like you one of these days Dave.



I keep trying to get my girlfriend to trade in her '01 1/2 ton 2x4 Chevy, but have been unsuccessful so far.



It is a pretty fun truck, kinda like a Camero with a bed, but it's lucky to haul feed, let alone horses :-laf

 

[RJOL]

Yes it is the 3500 Single RW that I am considering.

Don't know if your planning on towing a 5th wheel, but most fifth wheels over 30' (especially with a front bedroom slideout) will overload even the 3500 SRW. The limiting factor is the load capability of the tires. A stock load range E tire has about 3400# load capability. If the empty load on the rear axle is 3500lbs, you have about 3300lbs to play with. with a fifth wheel and fuel and passengers, and whatever else you cram into the bed, you don't have much to play with. Yes, a lot of the guys responding here are correct... You can overload your truck and probably get away with it most of the time. I just hope it doesn't bite you in the a___ someday. . Determine your load requirements before buying a SRW. If it pencils out, have fun... .

 

[JStraw]

I have to kindly disagree about the physics of a class 8 trailer being the same as a fifth wheel. The class eight trailer has its axles at the end of the trailer vs. midship on a fifth wheel. This changes the fulcrum point and weight transfer. The fifth wheel centers the majority of its weight in the center. Fifth wheel trailers with triple axles increase even more so the weight stability when braking. The class 8 utilizes a pulling stop on the weight. I'm not trying to bust any chops and could be in error. I reserve the right to change my mind or opinion at any given time



Side note:

Dual rear axles are the key for towing heavy. Not so much as whether its a single axle with duals or not. The comparison is too close. Sure, it matters for stability. Now, if DC will only make a dual rear axle 3500. :-laf



New thought:

Given each design, I can't think of why any trailer would be built that would place the majority of the braking requirement onto the tow vehicle. That would be a recipe for disaster.

 

[SnoKing]

Actually, according to the RCMP accident investigator (in a course I took), significant amounts of braking are done by the tow vehicle due to weight transfer. We were talking about Class 8 tractor/trailers, but the physics are the same. An empty truck will be able to panic stop in a shorter distance than a trailer (even with the trailer brakes locked) therefore the truck "helps" significantly with the braking of the combined unit.

That having been said, I doubt the DRW stops much better than the SRW as 70% of the braking is done by the front brakes on the tow vehicle and weight transfer likely unloads enough weight of the rear axle as to make the contact patch irrelevant.

Again, stability is the primary advantage of the DRW IMO, not braking; but I reiterate: buy what you need SRW and DRW both have thier uses, that's why I have both.



Dave

I had a guy pull in front of my 8500 gal gas tanker once and stop. That day and not very offen I only had 2000 gals of gas in the 2nd and 3rd compartment. What the guy need not know, is that if I would have had 8500 gals in the 5 compartments, I would have gone right over the top on his sports car. If I had been empty, I would have hit him pretty hard. As it was the 2000 gals was just enough weight to make the 18 wheeler stop nicely about a foot behind him. Of coarse I had everything in the cab of the Chevy Titan 90 all over the place. FYI, most semi tractors do not do much braking with the front axle, and some actually did not have steering axle brakes.



With the two fifth wheel trailers I have had, I do not believe that there is that much weight transfer from the rear of the pickup to the front during braking. My current trailer is 11. 240K with around 2300 lbs of pin weight. That puts the front axle around 4K and the rear around 5K for the pickup. With the application of brakes, the hold back of the trailer brakes makes the whole unit stop as a combined effort. If there is weight transfer happening it is very minor. The rear disc brakes on my truck, make for nice braking! SNOKING

 

[DPelletier]

Snoking,



I'm not arguing with you as you have first hand experience with tractor trailers, just telling you what the crash scene investigator said. I know some older Class 8 tractors didn't use to have brakes on the front axle, but I think they all do now?



Anyway, back to 5th wheels, I'll make these couple of points;



- using an example of a 15,000 lb 5er and an 8,000 lb pickup, just look at the brakes involved. The 5er SHOULD have brakes that are twice as big (or more, because of axle placement), but they typically have drum brakes, smaller tires and way less effective brakes than the tow vehicle. Other than some really high end stuff (like Casey Balvert's tandem, dually, disk brake equipped unit!), the brakes on any trailer are nowhere near as robust as the brakes on our trucks.



- I think that due to the fact that people can adjust various brake controllers to come on as strong as they like that they think that because the trailer will slow the truck/trailer combo down quickly when braking moderately that this means that in full panic mode, the results would be the same. I think not. In fact, the real test would be to try a 60mph to full stop test with an empty tow vehicle and then try the exact same emergency stop with the fiver in tow. I'd put good money on the truck with the trailer taking significantly longer to stop. I think your example above doesn't discount my contention; keep in mind that the class 8 tractor with 8 rear wheels and nothing for weight on the back could use some weight to help with braking, but as you said yourself, if your trailer was fully loaded you'd have driven right over him.

As an aside, my father drove trucks for many years and he actually ran over an MG with a fully loaded gravel truck. Not pretty.



I doubt anyone wants to try the side by side braking test, as you'd have crap flying all over the fifth wheel, but it'd be interesting, nonetheless.



Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just express my point of view which is: in a full bore, panic, smoke-from-tires emergency stop, the tow vehicle is required to "assist" the trailer brakes, resulting in a longer stopping distance than the tow vehicle alone.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[SnoKing]

Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just express my point of view which is: in a full bore, panic, smoke-from-tires emergency stop, the tow vehicle is required to "assist" the trailer brakes, resulting in a longer stopping distance than the tow vehicle alone.



Cheers,

Dave

That I will agree with! I do not believe however the you will be depending on the front brakes of the tow vehicle to a great extent as in an empty truck situation. SNOKING

 

[diesel DOG]

Vehicles over 80" require Clearance lights dually rules for sure. Even no load they corner better

 

[HookMeUp]

Hello KYLE4,

Where is Dave Smith in ID, phone, dealer, or email.

Thanks, Dave M in NC.

Dave,

Did you ever find out about this Dave Smith in Idaho?

 

[DPelletier]

That I will agree with! I do not believe however the you will be depending on the front brakes of the tow vehicle to a great extent as in an empty truck situation. SNOKING

I think we are in agreement, then! Sometimes I confuse even myself. The purpose of my first post was to respond to Bertram65's contention that "... the trailer should not be pushing the truck, even in a panic stop", when I believe that the trailer definitely does push the truck in a full panic stop.



To ask you another question then, do you think that there is enough pin weight on the rear axle when towing a heavy 5er to allow the tow vehicle's rear axle to supply more braking force than the front axle? And if so, do you then believe the DRW's increased contact patch could provide more braking force than a SRW truck under the same circumstance? I don't know the answer to that one, but I had not previously suspected the DRW would have a braking advantage.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[SnoKing]

I think we are in agreement, then! Sometimes I confuse even myself. The purpose of my first post was to respond to Bertram65's contention that "... the trailer should not be pushing the truck, even in a panic stop", when I believe that the trailer definitely does push the truck in a full panic stop.



To ask you another question then, do you think that there is enough pin weight on the rear axle when towing a heavy 5er to allow the tow vehicle's rear axle to supply more braking force than the front axle? And if so, do you then believe the DRW's increased contact patch could provide more braking force than a SRW truck under the same circumstance? I don't know the answer to that one, but I had not previously suspected the DRW would have a braking advantage.



Cheers,

Dave

Boy we are really getting into it now. I think alot would depend on the trucks brakes more than the tires. Pickup brakes are biased to the front to help prevent the rears from locking up. Then came 4 wheel Antilocks and some trucks sense load on the rear and change the bias.



Then you have the fact that a larger contact patch may decrease braking not increase it. I am a computer network engineer, not an auto engineer! Wet road, dry road on and on.



I do know that if I was going fulltiming I would have a Dually for sure. Just about everyone that has gone from a SRW to DRW reports that the stability increase is great. People over on the RV.net site go crazy towing 36+ footers with the Chevy 2500HD claiming it is really a SRW 1 ton. Then they upgrade to a 3500 and post about stability increase and fade away.



I was looking at Dodge SRW 3500's last fall, but new that it was not the complete answer to being over my GVWR, as the new trucks additional weight was going to eat up most of the 1100 lb increase in GVWR.



As others have said in 2001. 5 the camper package on the 2500 was the SRW 1 Ton, they just forgot to up the door sticker.



SNOKING

 

[DPelletier]

LOL

OK, I'll stop now! I doubt even an automotive design engineer would be able to give us a simple answer on that one.



True enough on the '01. 5 camper pkg trucks. The '05 Ford F-350 SRW now has a GVWR of up to 11,400 lbs! I believe it has 18" wheels. Hopefully DC will now try to play catch up!



Cheers,

Dave

 

[Hercules130]

Another thing to consider is if you get a truck that has a GVWR of over 10,000 pounds(dually), then your insurance goes up. i am not sure how much, but that is what my insurance agent told me.

 

[JRhinehart]

I just traded in my 92 D350 dually club cab in on an 04 3500 QC 4x4 SRW short box, so I guess I will be finding out quickly the difference between the dually and the SRW when I tow my 32' tag living quarters trailer out to Vegas from Illinois at the end of March! I weighed the trailer loaded with my 69 D200 Camper Special late last year and it was 11,140 lbs. The old 92 with the 160/400 5-speed was sure slow over the mountains, but nary a shimmy with no weight-distributing hitch! The new truck came with air bags already installed, do you think I should still buy the hitch along with sway control?

 

[Tim]

I sincerely hope the right D. O. T. Cop finds you and your fine starts at $5,000. :-laf Remember there's more than you on the highway, match the cart to the horse, the life you save may be your own!

DOT doesn't care what the truck is rated, for, they only want to make sure it is plated for the weight you're running.



Either way I don't overload my truck, but the only way to get a ticket is to be over what your plates are for.