Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter

[BEvens]

TP Filter?

I am all for the use of bypass filters but I am a bit reluctant to use TP for a filter element. :--) I recall about 10 or so years back a customer came in with motor trouble and was using a TP filter. It seems that the TP is designed to disintegrate when in water and this person living in central MN had a significant condensation issue in his crankcase. I found TP plugging the oil pickup and under the rocker covers. :{ I guess the TP is designed to disintegrate easily in water as to not cause issues in septic systems? Just guessing. The end result was the engine starved for oil and burned up. Maybe the coffee filters prevent this situation but I am still a bit leery. I suppose if you don’t short trip your vehicle you would be OK also. But I would stick with the BP filter that uses an actual element made for the job. Lets put this into perspective. Save a couple dollars on a filter or possible engine damage.



Just my two cents. Oo.

 

[CFAR]

There is a heavy spring that goes in after the tp. It is round and must be forced into the canister.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I am all for the use of bypass filters but I am a bit reluctant to use TP for a filter element. :--) I recall about 10 or so years back a customer came in with motor trouble and was using a TP filter. It seems that the TP is designed to disintegrate when in water and this person living in central MN had a significant condensation issue in his crankcase. I found TP plugging the oil pickup and under the rocker covers. :{ I guess the TP is designed to disintegrate easily in water as to not cause issues in septic systems? Just guessing. The end result was the engine starved for oil and burned up. Maybe the coffee filters prevent this situation but I am still a bit leery. I suppose if you don’t short trip your vehicle you would be OK also. But I would stick with the BP filter that uses an actual element made for the job. Lets put this into perspective. Save a couple dollars on a filter or possible engine damage.



Just my two cents. Oo.

Two separate issues here.



One is that in a PROPERLY selected and installed TP cartridge, NORMAL amounts of engine condensation should not be an issue.



BUT, select an inferior brand/type TP - such as the cheaper loosely wound, heavily embossed stuff, then install it poorly into the filter canister, and sure, problems CAN occur, but those are more logically and properly related to operator error than filter design!



Fact is, I've also heard of various types and brands of spin-on filters spitting out gaskets and splitting sides out of their cases and causing engine failures too - but not really reason enough to condemn ALL such filters...

 

[Nate]

Well no wonder I'm having problems! I guess the search is on for one of those!

There is a heavy spring that goes in after the tp. It is round and must be forced into the canister.

 

[BEvens]

Two separate issues here.



One is that in a PROPERLY selected and installed TP cartridge, NORMAL amounts of engine condensation should not be an issue.



BUT, select an inferior brand/type TP - such as the cheaper loosely wound, heavily embossed stuff, then install it poorly into the filter canister, and sure, problems CAN occur, but those are more logically and properly related to operator error than filter design!



Fact is, I've also heard of various types and brands of spin-on filters spitting out gaskets and splitting sides out of their cases and causing engine failures too - but not really reason enough to condemn ALL such filters...

OK I didn’t mean to condemn your product, sure there are other products have there failures but when that happens you can go back to that company for assistance or take them to court. You are then able to prove their failure to a judge because their product was designed to filter oil. If the TP breaks down who do you go to? I can see the look on the Judges face now when you take Charmin or Scott tissue to court because the TP broke down and damaged your engine, looking at the back of the TP package filtering oil is not listed as one of the uses. So my question would be is Frantz standing behind the potential failure of the filter element? If so I will buy one today if not I will have to go with a company that manufactures and stands behind their own element for at least a little insurance. I did speak to the diesel Tech at the local Dodge Store during lunch today and was laughed at! Maybe he was showing his ignorance but he did say that he didn’t feel it would effect warranty unless the TP broke down and caused trouble.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

OK I didn’t mean to condemn your product, sure there are other products have there failures but when that happens you can go back to that company for assistance or take them to court. You are then able to prove their failure to a judge because their product was designed to filter oil. If the TP breaks down who do you go to? I can see the look on the Judges face now when you take Charmin or Scott tissue to court because the TP broke down and damaged your engine, looking at the back of the TP package filtering oil is not listed as one of the uses. So my question would be is Frantz standing behind the potential failure of the filter element? If so I will buy one today if not I will have to go with a company that manufactures and stands behind their own element for at least a little insurance. I did speak to the diesel Tech at the local Dodge Store during lunch today and was laughed at! Maybe he was showing his ignorance but he did say that he didn’t feel it would effect warranty unless the TP broke down and caused trouble.

First, Frantz is NOT "my product" - I have no stock in the company, don't sell them, and don't make a PENNY off their sales - my only function in threads like this is to provide helpful info and attempt to squash old wive's horror stories about the Frantz filters. I personally like mine, but have often loudly stated that like MANY aftermarket products, they ARE NOT for everyone!



As far as warranty claims related to failures felt to be caused by a Frantz - I can pretty much GUARANTEE you that since they have absolutely NO control over the installation and maintenance of the basic filter, or the user's subsequent selection and installation/application of the TP, it will be EXACTLY the SAME as with a Amsoil or any OTHER aftermarket filter - just about ZERO other than the customary worthless reference to Magnusson-Moss...



There are just as many incompetents out there mis-applying and improperly maintaining aftermarket bypass filters as any OTHER aftermarket device!



BUT then, improperly install a Fleetguard or WIX filter on your engine and have a related failure - and then see what help you get from them, too...

 

[fortunate1]

That's a very good question. One that you should ask of Frantz themselves. I'm sure that George Walker's daughter, Deborah Harley, would gladly answer that question via phone or email. Go to www.wefilterit.com for contact info. Ms. Harley has always been very helpful to me when I had questions about the bypass filter her (now-deceased) father's company manufactures. This issue about TP rolls is also why I get them from Ms. Walker. Price is really not that bad, size is exact, and I know that I'm getting what they recommend. Having said that, I have never had any problem with one of their TP rolls "letting go". I have had a "Brand S" center roll try to stay on the filter unit during a change (the paper roll came off, but the cardboard center didn't). Filtering effect on the lube oil seemed similar with both types of rolls.

 

[MLee]

Nate;

Go to there web site www.wefilterit.com click on "order", click on "repacement filter element parts" the second line and scroll down, on the #204 with the roll installed you'll see it in the bottom of the canister, further down #214 is the retaining ring you are looking for. they are a couple bucks.

Hope this helps you.

Marv.

 

[Nate]

Actually I was planning on going up there this afternoon. I have to go to Nampa to get some steel anyhow.

 

[wlowe]

Nate, I believe this is what you're looking for?



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...=019&category=33661&viewitem=&item=8062269737

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It should be pointed out that what TP filter critics usually intend and use as ammo AGAINST the use of TP - the ability of TP to absorb water - is actually one of it's greater assets!



IF you drive a vehicle in unusual climates or short haul operation, you very well MAY accumulate excess water in your engine - WHAT are you going to do about it?



You CAN change the oil every week or 1000 miles to flush out the accumulated water - or you can just ignore the issue, and accept the greatly accelerated problems the excess water will cause steadily inside your engine...



Is that REALLY what to want in a vehicle that may have cost you several 10's of thousand dollars? There IS another solution!



Sure, TP will absorb more water out of your oil than a conventional filter - why not USE that ability to your advantage? In a scenario where excess water is condensing in your engine, a TP filter can be used. along with accelerated change intervals that will allow the excess water to be absorbed and removed on a scheduled basis - and you would obtain *2* benefits - your oil would be kept water free, and the increased TP change intervals would most certainly also keep your oil far cleaner than typical longer intervals.



Nor is it likely in such situations that the TP cartridge will instantly turn to mush or fall apart as soon as a few drops of water hit it - Frantz used to ship examples and pictures of special conditions users might encounter - higher than normal internal engine moisture condensation was one of those. And unless the oil supply was virtually FULL and loaded with water, the TP can safely handle quite a bit, usually easily enough to track and allow a user to establish a shorter change interval that will work best in his specific situation - and if crankcase water accumulation goes beyond what a TP cartridge can reasonably handle in a reasonable interval, there are far WORSE problems facing the vehicle owner than the brand/type bypass filter in use! :-laf



TP water absorption is not a liability, used in a properly monitored inspection and maintenance schedule, it's an asset that CAN be of great added benefit for vehicles operating in unusually damp climates or short-haul situations!

 

[R C Cola]

Water and TP

Has anyone commented on the fact that long before the tp disintegrates the oil on your dipstick will be milkey tan in color "Duh "and it is time for immediate attention. ? If you ignore that signal then God help you! The mechanic won't be able to.

 

[Nate]

Even with the Frantz, my oil is way black. I dunno if it's just an old engine doing that (170,000) miles... or what???

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Has anyone commented on the fact that long before the tp disintegrates the oil on your dipstick will be milkey tan in color "Duh "and it is time for immediate attention. ? If you ignore that signal then God help you! The mechanic won't be able to.

I sure wish we could ONCE AND FOR ALL clear up these old wives's tale/ urban legend bit about TP "disintegrating into the oil"!



Sorry to appear grumpy on the subject - but the here-say rumors steadily passed around by critics with absolutely NOTHING to go on but automatic and uninformed predjudice are absolutely the #1 bit of misinformation regarding these type filters - and they are totally FALSE as to TP disintegration being by ANY means any where near a significant occurance. Rarely possible in extreme and isolated circumstances maybe, but extremely rare by any yardstick.



Believe me, if I ever saw evidence of TP disintegration on my own vehicles, the Frantz would have been on the trash heap in mere moments!



My dad used these filters for a MILLION miles on his commercial cattle hauling truck. I have used them for hundreds of thousands of miles, a half dozen different vehicles, and nearly 50 years - and NEVER the SLIGHTEST indication of the LEAST BIT of TP deterioration or breakdown - and all any later arrivals to this thread need to look at to verify that fact, is at earlier posts of my oil analysis numbers and particle counts - which are all way below usual rates for non-bypassed. and most competing brand bypassed oil.



A user would have to be exceptionally ignorant and clumsy in the maintenance of these filters to have any such issues - and anyone THAT clumsy probably shouldn't be allowed under the hood anyway! :-laf

 

[DieselJake]

Just thought I'd thro in my . 02 worth.



Just installed a Gulf Coast Filters bypass unit. Have to agree with you all that a little attention to condition of your truck (and filters) is all that's required to keep that TP or whatever media from causing problems. If you can't do that minor PM then you should keep going to the quick lube every 3k miles. I'm using brown roll paper towel for my filter media, with a coffee filter end cap. And magnets in the housing just in case.



I went with the GCF for 2 reasons: 1 the added 1. 5 gallon of oil in the system and 2 got it cheaper (on Ebay) than I could find a Frantz or Motorguard.



Did an oil/filter change with Amsoil 15-40 truck/marine and a stratopore filter, then installed the GCF. 6k miles later the oil looks new. Will do oil analysis at 10k. Had to mount it in the tool box though, no room under hood or under truck.



Have to give credit to you all for the info in this and other threads on how to make it happen. Will post pics if anyone is interested.

 

[Cal Brewin]

Will post pics if anyone is interested.

post em! Oo.



pic of my set-up.

 

[Triton]

I haven't read this entire post just the last few pages. I have to say... . TP is completely old school ! Sure, it may work well but there are other product capable of producing the same results.

It seems a lot of people are afraid to try anything new. People! products change as do vehicles. Over the years trucks and cars have come 180 degree from the motors they used to be. This includes diesels.

I've tried on several occasions to get answers on other products used but, the only answers I get are about Amsoil and TP. It's unfortunate so many can't think outside the box for a minute in stead of following the herd.

If TP was such a great product, you'd think Charmin would be marketing to the diesel crowd. Or, if it was such a great filter, you'd think the manufacturers would have jump on the train. Instead, manufacturer are using newer and improve products like synthetic fibers, stainless steel... etc.

My thoughts on it are " to each their own " but others seem WAY to critical to someone using anything other than what they use.

The bottom line is..... WHY be so critical. Comsumers buy trucks everyday that will never do anything to them but, change the oil and they'll get a full life out of the vehicles. TP ISN'T the greatest thing since sliced bread... . unless you're using it to wipe !

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I haven't read this entire post just the last few pages. I have to say... . TP is completely old school ! Sure, it may work well but there are other product capable of producing the same results.

Here's a challenge for ya...



NAME one!



Just one will do!



And be sure to also provide actual comparative test specs when you do - no WAGs or seat-of-pants assumptions - or slanted advertising hype!



Sure TP is "old school" - and it's been around and still extremely popular because IT WORKS!



Perhaps you would do well to go back and READ the "entire post" (thread) - if you do, you read and see owner's results, and actual analysis results - when you can find a bypass product that is documented to do BETTER, get back to us!

 

[CFAR]

I haven't read this entire post just the last few pages. I have to say... . TP is completely old school ! Sure, it may work well but there are other product capable of producing the same results.



It seems a lot of people are afraid to try anything new. People! products change as do vehicles. Over the years trucks and cars have come 180 degree from the motors they used to be. This includes diesels.



I've tried on several occasions to get answers on other products used but, the only answers I get are about Amsoil and TP. It's unfortunate so many can't think outside the box for a minute in stead of following the herd.



If TP was such a great product, you'd think Charmin would be marketing to the diesel crowd. Or, if it was such a great filter, you'd think the manufacturers would have jump on the train. Instead, manufacturer are using newer and improve products like synthetic fibers, stainless steel... etc.



My thoughts on it are " to each their own " but others seem WAY to critical to someone using anything other than what they use.



The bottom line is..... WHY be so critical. Comsumers buy trucks everyday that will never do anything to them but, change the oil and they'll get a full life out of the vehicles. TP ISN'T the greatest thing since sliced bread... . unless you're using it to wipe !

????????????????????

 

[Triton]

Here's a challenge for ya...

NAME one!

Just one will do!

And be sure to also provide actual comparative test specs when you do - no WAGs or seat-of-pants assumptions - or slanted advertising hype!

Sure TP is "old school" - and it's been around and still extremely popular because IT WORKS!

Perhaps you would do well to go back and READ the "entire post" (thread) - if you do, you read and see owner's results, and actual analysis results - when you can find a bypass product that is documented to do BETTER, get back to us!

First, I'd like to tell me why you think it's SO important to filter out particles down to 2 microns or below, something a microscope can barely see? Sure... . I know cleaner is better but, if our trucks needed that much filtering..... those that don't do it must have their trucks in a junkyard by the time they see 100K. I happen to have a International 7. 3L in a Ford van that has well over 100K and it's never had anything done but, an oil change. Is it superior to a Cummins ?

I've said it before... . your average consumer will never do what we here at these forum do to our trucks. I'd bet the these forums make up 1% of the average truck buyer. A TP filter or any by-pass would be the last thing on their mind.

I'm really not trying to start something here... I'm just playing the devils advocate. I personally wouldn't use a TP set up how ever well it works. There's just no need for it. There's other by pass filter that will filter out as much or enough to do the job.

Beside everything else... . what a mess to deal with when changing the roll.