Deere 1023E Vs. Kubota BX1880

[JR]

Dont know about the exact time frame, but when we first moved to Indiana almost 2 years ago. I was looking at tractors Humphry's Equip sales is a LARGE Kubota dealer, I asked him about a new tractor with diesel thinking that the afterburner exhaust might be Highway only? WRONG!! We were told that when the afterburner exhaust was mandated for diesel it was ALL DIESELS

Your guy isn't very informed, unless he was maybe talking about Kubota only? Kubota does as far as I know require a DPF and SCR on the higher hp engines. But many others do not.

Here are two examples of dpf free engines in small equipment that have met tier 4 final. And there are others.

https://www.equipmentworld.com/doosan-delivers-dpf-free-engines-for-tier-4-final/

https://mahindrausa.com/mcrd

 

[jgillott]

Is there possibly a HP rating that the DPF becomes a requirement? 25 hp and above possibly?

On edit: never mind. I now see your post JR and those manufacturers are able to meet requirements in higher HP classed without it.

 

[JR]

Under 75hp is something like .03g PM, above 75hp the limit drops to .02g (g/bhp - hr) so on paper it looks like a wash but id wager the more you turn the wick up the harder it is to keep under the limits.

 

[BIGNASTY]

OK they don't have the EXACT same treatment system they have another if I read it correctly?? they say their MAINTENANCE FREE DOC system forgive me for being DUBIOUS of such claims NOTHING IS MAINTENANCE FREE & when the free stuff does need maint IT COSTS BIG BUCKS


A maintenance-free diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC) was developed for high efficiency removal of the soluble organic fraction of the particulate matter (PM) throughout the engine’s lifetime. Any catalyst will deteriorate from exposure to exhaust, Hwang says, so it was important to design the engine to minimize DOC deterioration while maintaining high levels of PM removal.

 

[BIGNASTY]

It was a Kubota dealer

 

[BIGNASTY]

Just looked up this DOC system It is or very very similar to the first systems used on Class 8 trucks that DIDN'T WORK if I remember the exhaust heat was so high to burn the PM that it fried other parts close to the filter. There was a story that a Ford truck sitting at a stoplight exhaust was so hot it melted the bumper of the car next to it.

Either way I hope it woks out for whoever is going top buy this product, Maybe if its on a tractor it can be removed and not worry about such foolishness

A diesel oxidation catalyst, or DOC, is a device that utilizes a chemical process in order to break down pollutants from a diesel engine in the exhaust stream, turning them into less harmful components, similar to an automobile's catalytic converter.

However, poorly maintained engines or operation in extreme cold may cause face plugging. ... DOC's Mufflers may also plug due to engine failure. The two most common engine failures that can plug a DOC are fuel injector or turbocharger failures that result in fuel or lube oil being fed into the exhaust system.

In these cases, the vehicles become strong candidates for the phenomenon known as face plugging. Face plugging is symptomatic of engine/exhaust issues and it consists of black deposits that form as the result of unburnt fuel collecting on the front end of the diesel oxidation catalyst

 

[NIsaacs]

I do believe most if not all of Kubota engines require a DPF but no SCR (DEF) to meet tier 4. Alot of small engines are getting it (tier 4) done without a DPF. Bobcat is now using Doosan as an engine supplier and is able to achieve tier 4 with a DOC only - no dpf or scr. Small engines have an advantage in the emissions dept, it's not cut and dry like it is in the larger engines.

Thanks JR. Do you know how far back to go, to get away from the EGR/DPF stuff? I don't know anything about it. My brother bought a Bobcat utility vehicle 2 years ago and it has a Yanmar.

 

[JR]

A DOC is nothing like a DPF. A DOC is a pass through canister, a DPF is a wall flow filter. In other words, a DPF is designed to trap soot (and eventually burn it off with an added injection event). A DOC is essentially a diesel version of a catalytic converter for a gas engine. They are not designed to trap soot.
Every 6.7 since 07.5 has had a DOC before the DPF, including the 13+ engines. They are integrated into the down pipe. There's not been a system that Incorporated a DOC only that I'm aware of. The story about the Ford (6.4 Navistar engine) had a DPF as well, it was the added injection event used to burn out DPF during regen that was responsible for the flames .

 

[Wayne M.]

I knew about IR but not Bobcat. I wonder if the engine deal broke the ice?

Bobcat was (is?) a property of IR.

 

[Wayne M.]

All 5.9 3rd gen CTD’s have DOC’s AKA the kitty. I would not hesitate buying a piece of equipment that has a DOC. We have tier 4 final GEHL skids, and they have full blown DPF’s in them. I believe they’re yanmars.

 

[JR]

Thanks JR. Do you know how far back to go, to get away from the EGR/DPF stuff? I don't know anything about it. My brother bought a Bobcat utility vehicle 2 years ago and it has a Yanmar.

I honestly don't. But I don't think you would have to go too far as tier 2 carried through 2009-2010.

 

[JR]

All 5.9 3rd gen CTD’s have DOC’s AKA the kitty. I would not hesitate buying a piece of equipment that has a DOC. We have tier 4 final GEHL skids, and they have full blown DPF’s in them. I believe they’re yanmars.

Absolutely. When I said no system with DOC only I was referring to tier 4 stuff.

Bobcat was (is?) a property of IR.

Did not know that either! It seems IR turned into a mega conglomerate. They also bought up Trane a while back and ba$tardized the product line. It is still possible to get quality Trane ($$$) but they have really pushed hard on their "value line" aka American Standard.
We just upgraded our heat pump last fall, we went through 2 HVAC companies before finding one that wanted to sell us a Trane over American Standard. Apparently the bottom line looks much better with American Standard.

 

[DHayden]

Just throwing this out there, have you looked at RK (rural king) tractors? They are built by TYM. They are basically the same tractor as a Mahindra except with a yanmar engine. They come loaded and are about 40% cheaper than a Deere. 8 year drive train warranty. I was pretty impressed, only draw back is lack of RK stores for service.
Disclaimer: I am not affiliated in any way, just passing on a seemingly good deal on a quality item.

 

[NIsaacs]

I think the TYM is a fine tractor as is the Kioti, both made in South Korea. Not sure about the Mahindra (made in India) or New Holland with the LS Mitron engine.

John Deere is crazy for holding their value. There is a John Deere model 970 4x4 with loader and Gannon box, mid 90's with 33 HP in Phoenix for $14,500. A new Kioti, same size for $20k, includes loader and hydrostatic drive.

 

[JR]

I'd own a Mahindra over a TYM or a Kioti. They've actually grown quite popular here in Ag country and developed a name for reliability.

 

[DHayden]

After further looking, the smaller Deeres (under 60hp) are disappointing. Loader arms are small and not as much capacity as others and the rear end is aluminum. The RK has a 24hp with loader and Hydrostatic drive for 13k, a 37hp with loader and hydrostatic drive for 20k. A lot of goodies are included in that price that are extras on others (including loaded rear tires) and dual rear remotes.

 

[DHayden]

After further looking, the smaller Deeres (under 60hp) are disappointing. Loader arms are small and not as much capacity as others and the rear end is aluminum. The RK has a 24hp with loader and Hydrostatic drive for 13k, a 37hp with loader and hydrostatic drive for 20k. A lot of goodies are included in that price that are extras on others (including loaded rear tires) and dual rear remotes.

TYM makes tractors for Mahindra, not all of them, but I believe all of the ones under 60hp.

 

[JR]

TYM makes tractors for Mahindra, not all of them, but I believe all of the ones under 60hp.

This is how they all are. Small Deere's are built by Yanmar. I don't consider them a Deere anymore than I consider a TYM built Mahindra a Mahindra....

 

[NIsaacs]

Yes, they change owners faster than you can research them. Most of them have aggressive financing and long warranties. I do like Kubota's attachments, they are partnered with Land Pride. What I do like about my Deere is the parts supply, I can still buy anything for it and it is a '94. My Case/IH, '93 I get Zip.

 

[jgillott]

I don't know how it is in your area, but Mahindra tractors run darn close in price to the comparable Kubota or Deere.