Engine brake for 2005 with 48re

[cerberusiam]

A lot. The EB generates a lot more retarding force than just throttle off. How much is dependent on rpms. Could be anywhere from 5x to 10x more retard. Without the TC locked all it is doing is spinning thru the fluid and heating it, throttle closed the TC does not lock.

Most of what you are getting now is parasitic drag from the gear reduction by down shifting to second with no EB, add in the EB and it is generating retard force plus the parasitic drag. Without TC lock it just hits the fluid coupling harder. With TC lock and no TV pressure ramp, it will start slipping clutches and the front band.

 

[GSonnek]

What can you Tv pressure that the Op are talking about? It seems the PacBrake is working ok for you? Thanks

 

[GSonnek]

Sorry what can you tell me about the Tv pressure ?

 

[cerberusiam]

The TV pressure is quite simply the apply pressure used to clamp the clutches and bands. It is what makes the shifts and TC lockup firm or soft. With the 47\48 series transmisisons, it is totally dependent on throttle position to define what that pressure is at any given time. That pressure untimately defines how much power the transmission is able to transmit, forward or reverse, to the rear wheels. When the power transmitted exceeds the clamping force things slip.

In a stock transmission the difference in apply pressures are 50-55 psi at zero throttle to 110-120 psi at full throttle. The stock TC, forward clutches, and front band are very limited to what power they can hold at the minimum pressures. To use the EB effectively and minimize the effect on the transmission when towing at or close to GCVW, the apply pressures need to be at 140-160 psi ANY time the EB is engaged. Less weight requires less pressure but there is no good way to say how much, too many other factors involved. Without TV control, all you can do is add a triple disk TC, a shift kit, and lockup control while hoping you don't exceed the transmission holding capacity. It works but it has some holes in the operation.

 

[Ozymandias]

Pressure Up

http://www.dieselperformance.com/index.php/product/index/239P



Won't this work with an Engine Brake?

 

[cerberusiam]

Unless there is an undocumented feature that allows it to function with an EB, no. Its operation is still dependent on throttle opening.

 

[RVTRKN]

When I bought my 04. 5 manual trans CTD, it was capable, but I read somewhere about the 48re was not yet capable because of two issues. One was the programing per TC lockup and transmission communication with it, the other was about a thrust bearing on the input shaft was not strong enough and would destroy it. Is there anything to this, I have not read any post here in this thread regarding that issue?

 

[cerberusiam]

I have not read any post here in this thread regarding that issue?

The thrust washer design was changed in mid MY04, the actual date was never published just the approximate time frame. No ECU prior to 06 has the ability to interface with any EB, you have to use a separate controller to handle transmission control.

 

[RVTRKN]

So its safe to say the Thrust washer/bearing would be compatible for MY05 then? On an unrelated subject, my Nav system was capable of video input but was advised to check first before ordering my Lockpick because some 07 Nav systems had the MY06 radio without it. So how would you tell if the trans had the updated thrust bearing?

 

[cerberusiam]

So how would you tell if the trans had the updated thrust bearing?

Only way to know for sure is take it apart and verify it. A lot of effort for minimal gain since documnetation of the failure of this particular does not exist. All we have is a speculative report that indicates that extended use of the EB could POSSIBLY lead to excessive wear on this one item. No mention of time frame or results, no mention of failure, only a postulation excessive wear could occur in the correct situations.



If one wants to subscribe to the HB Theory of Operation, anything ever said, published, or mumbled in a dream from a Cummins or Dodge represenatative is hard fact and the object of the statement will instantly implode upon activation of said item causing massive damage to said truck and anything within a mile radius. Some people also firmly believe in alien abductions and anal probes as a means to overthtrow the humman race... ... . :--)





YMMV.

 

[RVTRKN]

If one wants to subscribe to the HB Theory of operation.



YMMV.

No thanks, but being probed by aliens, now that's funny.

 

[Ozymandias]

ECM of 04. 5 works well with the Jake Brake. Forced downshift 4-3, holds TC locked without throttle, hold Line Pressure at 100psi as long as the TC is locked - even with Zero Throttle. After downshift 4-3 needs to feather throttle for lockup.
with minor work (TransGo) it will hold fine with 125psi.


But that was not the question.
05 does nothing from them, 05 ist the worst year for an EB.

 

[p-Bar]

No ECU prior to 06 has the ability to interface with any EB, you have to use a separate controller to handle transmission control.

It was said that there was not enough RAM in the computer to load the software. I followed Carlton Bale's thread very closely when they were testing the Jacob's brake on the Dodge/Cummins platform. BD makes some units that will control EB's they keep up the pressure at low RPM. When my 04. 5 48RE was recently rebuilt there was a thrust bearing in place. Thanks for your input cerb as I learn a lot from you

 

[Ozymandias]

As I said, the 04. 5 does control nearly everything that is needed.
Only Thing the operator/driver needs to do is to switch Off the EB whenever the TC Lockup kicks out - that is not supported by the ECM and that's the reason why Dodge/Cummins don't allow the EB for this particular Truck.

It is not Foolproof.

 

[cerberusiam]

As I said, the 04. 5 does control nearly everything that is needed.
Only Thing the operator/driver needs to do is to switch Off the EB whenever the TC Lockup kicks out - that is not supported by the ECM and that's the reason why Dodge/Cummins don't allow the EB for this particular Truck.

That means it does not control anything from the ECU's point. The ECU has absolutely no idea the EB is engaged, it doesn't have an interface. The TCM is still operating on the stock program and the actual apply pressures are not what are need unless you put a shift kit in. If true control was possible it would downshift to 2nd gear automatically and hold down to about 25 mph. If the VB is modded correctly and a PressureLoc added it will hold all the way down into 1st gear and 15-20 mph before the rpms get to low to provide and braking.

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm really sorry but it does, if the EB is switched OFF then there is no downshift and the TC unlocks every time the throttle goes to zero.
2 Gear retarding is possible but must be downshifted manually, then it holds down to 25mph.

And the EB is controlled by the ECM - not by the operator. There are two cables connected to the ECM, one from the toggle Switch that the driver uses to tell his wish for the EB, and the second cable with them the ECM switches the relay for the exhaust valve.


oh I forgot to mention, the EB goes of if you push the throttle, and if you leave it it needs 2 seconds delay until it kicks back in.



it is like Carlton bale said, the 04. 5 is capable to handle the EB - but not 100%.



if someone's still not believe I'll make a YouTube video.

 

[cerberusiam]

I'm really sorry but it does, if the EB is switched OFF then there is no downshift and the TC unlocks every time the throttle goes to zero.
2 Gear retarding is possible but must be downshifted manually, then it holds down to 25mph.

Yes, and that i how it should work. Now, you have the BD PressureLoc listed in your signature and we talked before about its function. Do you get the same behaviour when it is not connected?

The 2nd gear needing manual down shift is exactly what I am talking about, the ECU has no idea an EB is activated or it would auto downshift the trans. It would in conjunction with the PowerLoc but that takes VB mods to accomplish because the stock VB setup will not allow a shift without at least pulsing the lockup off.

The ATS Co-Pilot actually does as good a job of controlling the trans and EB as there is and it even leaves things to be desired on an 05. The 2 prolbems on an 05 that don't seem to have a solution is advancing the TTVA motor and downshifting the trans correctly.

 

[Ozymandias]

Hi Cerb
The PL is one if the little Downsides I bought, as it is desired in the installation manual I measured the line pressures and found out that I have 125psi already when the TC is locked - with the transGo installed.

125psi is what BD states to set the pressurLoc after installation, senseless.
I sets it to 145psi then.

Behavior of the Trans stayed the same with or without the BD Pressurelic.

 

[p-Bar]

OK guys I have a rebuilt trans with Goerend trans parts Billet input shaft , triple disc torque converter, valve body. Goerend states that the valvebody pressure is 175 fooling the ECU . So I want to put on an exhaust brake . Do I need any aftermarket boxes ect. ? Thanks

 

[cerberusiam]

Running Daves's build n the VB you are probably fine. The constant pressure VB setup from Goerends is the other option that may make it work just fine on an 05 also, on a 04 it should be perfect.

A lot may depend on the EB. Each one has a slightly different way of interfacing. If you bought the Jacobs version and wired it the way they recommend for the 06+ models it will likely be fine.