Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) High Altitude Bombing - Performance Balancing Act.

[jjohn]

Hello all,

I have been talking and reading trying to decide my "next steps" for the perfect setup for “my” truck. Some of this text is from a Torque Converter post of mine if it looks familiar to you.



I thought I would try a more direct question to get the benefit of some of your experience with High Altitude bombing.



My Goal is to “get to or approach” the power of some of the TDR members who have let me drive there trucks, 350+ HP range (Thanks BOB, Mike and Kevin!) and still have control over the smoke when I am in heavy traffic on a warm day at 5500 feet without that eggshell under my foot felling.



I’m learning and want to learn more like, Max injector size with PDR HY35 or other suggested turbo for example.





My truck 2002 CTD, 47RE-Auto, 3. 54 gears



Gauge's DiPricol fuel press, boost 0-35, EGT, Trans Temp.



4 inch exhaust.

BHAF with SS heat shield.



EZ installed.

275RV new in the box - un-installed for after transmission work.



Making arrangements for DTT 89% "H" with Tow Valve body.





Usage is 95% daily driver some towing in the 8500lbs range in the mountains.



Because I live at 5K feet and drive between 5K and 6. 5K+ feet daily and a great deal of Denver traffic, smoke control is important to me.



I have been thinking PDR HX35 but am unsure if the $650 includes the exhaust housing? Either way I am unsure if I should get a 12cm, 14cm, 16cm waste gated or not?



I will probably want try larger injector down the road if smoke is manageable with the 275's and EZ maybe even more or different electronics and a cam down the road after saving some more $$'s



If the turbo PDR HY-35 will support 350HP what boost numbers are we talking with 275's or larger mid-range 80hp type injectors?

am I on the right track? how did you Prioritize purchases?



Also are there any books that explain turbo airflows, how different injector effect turbo lag, and how to make this performance parts balancing act work the first time?





Thanks Jim Johnson

 

[K_Arts]

Here's a little bit of info for you JJ. On an ETC Auto, DD2's and an EZ box dyno in at about 300hp. Anything more then that will typically give you tons of smoke.



I would honestly not exceed DD2 injectors and a Comp box (gives you the ability to tune down the power in winter) to be able to have driveable power and minimal smoke. My personal preference though it not to have a fueling box. I'm not too sure what your thoughts are on piercing the VP44.



Kev

 

[HeberRam]

Best combo IMHO at your altitude is DD2's, Edge EZ box and Piers HX40. A little lag on the start, however, you'll like the top end spool up... I live at 5700"



Steve

 

[jjohn]

Kevin,

I'm sticking with my EZ, for now. Mostly just looking for input on the turbo selection and compatibility different size injectors at this altitude.

For example: if I install the 275's I already have with the stock turbo..... try that and decide to go to a PDR HX40-14cm will it function poorly with the 275's and will I also need to upgrade to DD2's at the same time? -or- If I get the PDR HX35-12cm with the 275's am i limiting growth to the DD2's?



To be honest with you I don't know what I would be happy with!



Steve,

I Drove a HX40 I know what you are saying on the high end.

Hows the smoke control off the line if you need to get moving with the DD2's?



Thanks JJ

 

[KevinK]

With my setup, unless I'm careful at every stop, I blow a lot of black smoke. I can't say that I can tell a difference between the stock HX-35 and the PDR-35. I have got to believe that the 40 can only be worse. If I've got the COMP sublevel turned down to 1, then it's not too bad. If smoke really concerns you, you should try driving a truck with DD2's (I'm not too far away and your welcome to try mine out). I'm constantly having to clean the soot off the back of my truck, which I never had to do before the DD2's.



Kevin

 

[K_Arts]

Originally posted by jjohn

Kevin,

I'm sticking with my EZ, for now. Mostly just looking for input on the turbo selection and compatibility different size injectors at this altitude.

For example: if I install the 275's I already have with the stock turbo..... try that and decide to go to a PDR HX40-14cm will it function poorly with the 275's and will I also need to upgrade to DD2's at the same time? -or- If I get the PDR HX35-12cm with the 275's am i limiting growth to the DD2's?



To be honest with you I don't know what I would be happy with!



Steve,

I Drove a HX40 I know what you are saying on the high end.

Hows the smoke control off the line if you need to get moving with the DD2's?



Thanks JJ

To answer your question... I honestly believe that you will be very happy with the 275's and EZ as you and I talked about. As far as putting an HX40 with the 275's... . NO WAY NO HOW. You will have a tough time spooling that bad boy up. Plus I honestly doubt you really would be happy with how much lag you would have.



If it were my choice, I would go ahead, put the transmission in (you will notice a huge difference in driveability and power to the ground), then I'd put in your 275's and crank your EZ up. You will be more then happy. . trust me. Then in given time if you go head and get a PDR HX35 your spool up will be extremely quick and your egts will be a tad cooler then running your HY. You and I had quite a talk about this, so you already know my take on it.



KevinK... Hey buddy, long time no see. To answer your reply to JJ about driving a truck with dd2's. He drove my truck last week and was very surprised at how quickly my PDR HX35 spooled up and cleaned the smoke



But as you said. It is not hard to put the hammer down and lay a serious cloud of smoke. As far as having to clean off the soot from the back of your truck. You may want to invest in a turn down pipe so that you blow the soot on the road. Thats kind of funny hearing you say that though, cause I can't say that I've had to clean anything off of the back of my truck except for rubber. . LMAO



Keep me informed with what you do JJ... and don't forget, I'm just down the road from you if you need any help.



Kev

 

[jjohn]

Well I though I would bring this back after talking with Piers today.

transmission's done... DTT Master Kit, Billet internals & input shaft.



I'm at that HX40/14? HX35/14.

DD2s or ?

Comp or TST or stay with the EZ



Funny, what all you thought you would be happy with, goes out the window after the transmission is done



I remember when I though going to the highest setting on the EZ

seemed out of reach. Now I find myself lusting for twins, and two turbo's



Piers gave me the pros and cons HX40 and HX35 and other appropriate choices.



150 cooler EGT with the 35

250 with the 40



Humm... any more High Altitude opinions. Daily driver you know!



JJ

 

[KevinK]

I've been running around empty with my comp box set on 4x2 and have been very happy with the setup. I had been using 3x2, but there was a bit of a dead spot at light throttle. 3x3 fixed the dead spot, but it smoked too much at low boost.

I've taken several trips up I-70 this summer pulling our 10K trailer. I run up the hills on 2x1 and have yet to find a hill that I could not accelerate past the speed limit. I run at about half throttle and 63mph from Dillon to the tunnel. My 63mph speed is limited by my 1300* temps. If I push it any harder, I'll go to 1400* or higher. Still, I couldn't be happier with the towing performance.



I think the comp and DD2's are a great setup. You're welcome to try mine out.



By the way, Kevin, I did finally buy a turn down tip and you're right, I haven't have to clean the soot off yet.



Kevin

 

[willyslover]

JJ your getting great advise from the high altitude guys. . I'm at 4000' and have DD III's and a PDR HX40 with drag comp box. . I turn the box off when I go higher and still can turn out the lights big time... . now I'm in a very sparse populated area. . and occasionally do have some lights out fun LOL. [ok ok often have fun ]

heck all that and not even talking about EGT's... LOL easy to get out of line as you can expect . . but what do you want power or towing . . very hard to do both in higher levels, bad enough at mine.

 

[mlockner]

jj, my opnion is stage 2's, HX40 and drag comp. Stage 3's if you are not toooooo concerened about smoke. Just my opinion compared to what I drive almost daily and tow my 5th wheel with.

Mike L.

 

[jrandol]

I am very pleased with my 3's. Keep in mind these are not 3's from either of the 2 major manufacturers and seriously, the smoke is next to nothing. Would be glad to take you for a spin sometime and see what your smoke meter shows. I am interested what us high altitude guys use for turbos, I need more air but am a little leary of the 40, I drive to much city to mess with reallly slow spoolup. JJohn, sell the EZ and get a major fueling box, it'll make you do this Oo. Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[jrandol]

Originally posted by mlockner

jj, my opnion is stage 2's, HX40 and drag comp. Stage 3's if you are not toooooo concerened about smoke. Just my opinion compared to what I drive almost daily and tow my 5th wheel with.

Mike L.

And dont forget tear it up at Bandimere!!! 14. 2!!! Thats sweet, all from a daily driver "stinky, loud diesel"

 

[greyghost]

Quick Spool HX 40

I just read over at the ATS forum that they are currently testing an HX 40 which spools quick. I believe STAKEMAN is testing it on his truck (never met the man).



I talked with Kelle at Relience and got kind of the same answer about towing and smoke control, need a HX 40.



I'd have to agree with KevinK and others, a set of DD IIs, HX 40 (quick spool or not), and a Comp would make the best tow package for the thin air.



I tow some heavy things over the passes and I too run out of turbo. EGTs start pounding to 1400 F quick, but thats with RV 275 which I think don't have the fuel control a set of DD or BD would have.



Garrett

 

[jrandol]

Re: Quick Spool HX 40

Originally posted by greyghost

I just read over at the ATS forum that they are currently testing an HX 40 which spools quick. I believe STAKEMAN is testing it on his truck (never met the man).



I talked with Kelle at Relience and got kind of the same answer about towing and smoke control, need a HX 40.



I'd have to agree with KevinK and others, a set of DD IIs, HX 40 (quick spool or not), and a Comp would make the best tow package for the thin air.



I tow some heavy things over the passes and I too run out of turbo. EGTs start pounding to 1400 F quick, but thats with RV 275 which I think don't have the fuel control a set of DD or BD would have.



Garrett

Yep, i talked with stakeman a few weeks back. Its a hybrid 40/35. He said he really likes it compared to a 40. If I remember right he is testing with a comp and 10% injectors.



Man, if twins just werent so many $$$$

 

[greyghost]

I feel your pain

Ya know if it was cheap and easy it would be any fun.



Garrett

 

[mgoncalves]

I'll second Jeff's statement about little smoke with these three's. However, when you get into the pedal a little, they will smoke alot. I don't think there is a way around that, at least not an easy way.



On a 90+ day with the comp turned off, there is little smoke with normal driving and a good cloud driving hard. Now turn the comp on to 5x5 and you can leave clouds that people will actually drive around. If I drive normal with the comp on 5x5 on a hot day, it smokes a little to much just keeping up with traffic.







Matt

 

[jrandol]

Originally posted by mgoncalves

I'll second Jeff's statement about little smoke with these three's. However, when you get into the pedal a little, they will smoke alot. I don't think there is a way around that, at least not an easy way.



On a 90+ day with the comp turned off, there is little smoke with normal driving and a good cloud driving hard. Now turn the comp on to 5x5 and you can leave clouds that people will actually drive around. If I drive normal with the comp on 5x5 on a hot day, it smokes a little to much just keeping up with traffic.







Matt

Clouds they drive around Remember that BMW in Fort Collins? That was a good time!!!

 

[MD500E]

I would go with the PDR HX-35. I have run many miles with both the 35 and the PDR 40. I personally would rather be running a 35 more twords the upper hp limit and enjoying super quick spool up, than running a 40 and getting lower max EGT but sluggish spool-up especially with small injectors like 275's.

I really like the HX-35, DDII's and comp box combo. Egt's will be high with the comp cranked up but it shouldn't hurt anything for a quick race.

 

[jjohn]

Thanks everyone for the input

I'm thinking!

 

[Cummins4Life]

For 8 months I had BD2's, Comp and a PDRHX35/12 and spent most of my time from 4700-6000 feet in elevation. The 35 spooled great even with the box off. On 1x5 it would smoke a little but not enough to where you would have to worry about it.