Competition how to make a 4500 survive?

[NBowlin]

hey i am curious as to how you all keep your 5 speed in working order makin all the power and putting them thru the abuse you do.



i make a little power, and mine wont keep together for nothing. i am actually quite tired of taking it in and out. it ate the mainshaft, countershaft, and some of the gears. i just installed a new input shaft for the dual disc i am trying to run. that lasted all of 64 miles before it gave out again. i had to shim the input shaft bearing carrier to make it work in the first place but it took and was pressing the nearest synchro into third gear... . all gears on the counter shaft are shot now.



is there a way to make them hold together? i have been buying everything from standard transmission, except the clutch and input shaft.



i need some words of encouragement, help, or something. i have been waiting over a month now for parts so i can get it back on the road.

 

[C Schomer]

Yeh, I'd like to know how to keep bearings in them! Put the ST 5th gear and shaft in at 32k and shimmed up the bearings. Just put in a Con O clutch (70k) and bearings are sloppy again. Changed oil every 20k with the oem lube. Hopefully the oem bearings are junk and new Timkens will help. Any ideas? TIA! Craig

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Do you have a lemon NV4500 maybe? My brother had a Chevy pick-up with a 350 in it a number of years ago and that thing would eat cranks, after the third one we chucked it in the scrap pile and started with a different block and never had another problem. Block was probably warped or something.

 

[NBowlin]

i am waiting for new 3rd gear, third gear synchro, 1 3/8 input from one place, and i received the new counter shaft and i went ahead and ordered new bearings (timkens) as well and seals. for this the third time thru this transmission.

i already have an extreme duty mainshaft tht is fully splined and i have kept that syntorque lube in there the whole time.



all this started happening after the new turbo and more fuel. but i mean there are plenty of people making way way more power than myself that run these. i am putting a twins set up together this winter and i would like to drive the truck with them for more than 10 feet and see what they can do. whats the trick to these things.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

For what you've gone through... it would have been easier (and cheaper in the long run... ) to just buy a stoutly re-built transmission from someone stateside.



EEP has a reputation for making these things live under pretty nasty conditions.



Matt

 

[Sled Puller]

Amsoil Series 2000 75-90.



Fast Coolers



Don't pull sleds in 2 high.



1 3/8 mainshaft



Don't slam shift gears.



Put it together properly.

 

[Sled Puller]

Oh yea, never, EVER, shift without the clutch.

 

[Cumminsman]

and the sled pull god has spoke again

 

[Jff24Gordn]

I am surprised that my current build has lasted 8k miles. It aint like I slam gears, run crappy oil, shift w/o the clutch, and have a small input shaft or own fast coolers. I never sled pull. too slow.

 

[NBowlin]

so there is no place to get sturdier parts then?

i have never sled pulled with it. the last time it went down i was breaking in a new clutch. i am just a little fed up and was curious if there was a place to get better than oem parts.

 

[Turbo Thom]

The sled god has spoken again but this time he's right on all points.



. . Preston. .

 

[Cumminsman]

i wasn't arguing with him, just agreeing.

 

[Sled Puller]

Watcha mean "this "time?

 

[C Schomer]

I don't drag, pull or abuse - I just like to haul a$$ on my vacations and spend as little time as possible on the road. Too many all day interstate runs at 80+and headwinds. I have bearing problems not gear problems. I'm convinced, speed is harder on stuff than a heavier load at lower speeds. My box temps are lower going up to Eisenhower tunnel at 65, than on flat road at 80+. A little history - I was down to zero preload on the pinion and carrier bearings at 48k miles. I got a lot of tips from an old Dana tech on what he felt was the best diff. "setup". The pinion had Timken and the carrier had Bower, from the factory. According to him, Bower is GM junk and he couldn't believe Dana ever used them. I used all Timken replacements - time will tell. I'm hoping the 4500 has inferior bearings and I might benefit with something better. According to the bearing store, I buy from, Timken still makes the best tapered bearings, hands down! I'm beginning to consider a 6sp. conversion instead of screwing with this 5 sp. anymore. Any ideas?? Craig

 

[Sled Puller]

Fast Cooler on each side, should cut the heat down.

 

[csevers]

I replied to your first thread I think, You should NEVER have to shim front bearing retainer. You set your bearing pre load on both shafts in the rear of the case by placing shims under the rear bearing retainers. I am guessing the trans is being assembled wrong. Maybe try getting a preassembled trans from a reputable source and give it a try.



Good Luck

Craig

 

[C Schomer]

I think you got the wrong guy - I did set the clearence with the rear shims! I think the biggest problem is putting 800+ tq. to a 450 tq. box. Craig

 

[SmokinJoe]

According to the bearing store, I buy from, Timken still makes the best tapered bearings, hands down!

I agree on the bearings. I have seen some posts where they overfill the transmission to the TOP bolt hole. This is said to allow 2 more quarts in the transmission.

 

[NBowlin]

no i had to shim the front of the transmission on the input shaft carrier. when it died this last time, i limped into some random icelandic shop and asked if my friend and i could use a stall and a floor jack. we took it out and tore it apart the top half was still intact and the way it should have been, and there was no time nor did i have any means of replacing the lube in it so we didnt tear it all the way down. plus we were still bout 70 miles from the base. anyhow the man who owned the shop put the input shaft in a lathe and took . 02mm off of it where the little pancake bearing rides. we put it back together and got back to the base using 2nd and 4th gear.



when i got back i called the people i got the input shaft and clutch from and they went onto say that when they make the input shafts there are perfect ones, short ones, and long ones. if you have a worn never rebuilt transmission a long one will actually work better. i just rebuilt mine, and thru dumb luck receive a particularly long input shaft. which i tried to offset by shimming. i explained the them that i did this, and i was told it was fine. what it was doing was pushing the 3rd gear synchro collar into third gear causing some binding, and eventualy the counter shaft wouldnt have it no more i presume cause none of the gears that work on it work too well, very noisy. they are going to replace the input shaft and take mine back, said they can use it on something. i had to get all the other damaged items, but i have been truckless for over 5 weeks now. which sucks! to top it off i am going on 37 days of leave, so the truck will sit for way too long.



when i get back and tear into it i will take pictures and put them into the readers rig part. my dead mainshaft is in there. it broke off at third gear as well. is 3rd just a trouble spot or what?

 

[Sled Puller]

Third gear was warped in mine when I bought it, 26,000 miles. It ruined the synchro at about 36,000.