Competition how would this stack up against the competition

[Sled Puller]

Brad, I think the question is, who has the guts to sell me one, knowing I tell the truth about how parts last, and wether they hold up as advertised!:-{}

 

[South Bend Clutch]

Larry,



I did not expect this kind of post out of you.



First off, if you sled pull enough times you WILL burn up any clutch. Do you agree with that? Yes a double will outstand a single, no argument there. You just said it yourself and so did Gene, he dose not have that much power and will not be coming out of the hole at 4000 rps with smoke rolling out of his stacks with boost levels in the 70's. I am sure he will verify this... When he called and said he wanted to sled pull the first thing I said is you should get a sled pulling clutch. I said mine was not ready yet and he should call Mitchell if he could not wait. He said that he did not want to spend that kind of money and only wanted to do it a couple of times. So I was very clear with him as to how to pull with a single disc as to not burn it up. I told him that there were plenty of people out west using our clutch and this is how they do it. I said the folks down south are in a different category and if you want to compete with them this is not the clutch for you. He said he was going to stay simple and pull once or twice at the local fairs. He comes on here and you guys thrash everything that I just said to him. Yes, I take it personal, now.



Your comments about me owning a diesel and sled pulling and lack of experience. Lets see... I have our clutch in the fastest Audi in the world but I don't own one of them or a Porche or a Mit. 3000 GT twin turbo. I am building up a 9 sec. 94 twin turbo Toyota Supra with our clutch in it but I don't own it either. I build clutches for semi, should I have one of them parked in my driveway to be qualified. I have been working on tractor pull clutches for tractor's (agricultural) since I was a kid. I have worked on many a Crawler clutches in my life as well as Hyper max. So am I qualified? Do the guys that design and work on rockets fly them into space?



I also never thrashed Mitchell's clutch, I only pointed out what the differences were and it hit a nerve with you. We all know the center plate is the biggest issue. I am making mine as thick as I possible can. I am also working on a carbon inserted center plate so you can run carbon buttons on it and help eliminate the heat.

Do you want me to stop working on it because you are satisfied with what you got?



Gene is the only one here that realizes this is only good for the industry. The more that people get involved the better the products will become for you. I might not have all the answers and the next guy will take what I have done and find some improvements for it. But at least you have someone here that knows some of the weak points and is willing to take a stab at making it better.



enough said



Peter

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by South Bend Clutch

Larry,



. I told him that there were plenty of people out west using our clutch and this is how they do it. I said the folks down south are in a different category and if you want to compete with them this is not the clutch for you. He said he was going to stay simple and pull once or twice at the local fairs.







Peter

And there it is folks!

You have to stay with simple power in order to pull with a single disc, just like the westerners, the southerners, (from where Peter is, midwesterners to everyone else) are in a league all there own!



Glad we got that ongoing arguement settled also.





Although there is always room for improvement, I have never heard anyone complain about Mitchell's clutch.

Just grins, ear to ear becuase they finally got something to hold.

The only ones who complain about the cost, are the ones who have not invested twice that in inferior clutches already.



I mean, what is a bargain?



$1000 for something that absolutely will not hold, or $1700 for a clutch that can hold 1000hp, and splits NV4500s in half before it slips?



These trucks are in a different league, they need hi po parts tested, becuase there has never been anything like them on the road or track before.

 

[South Bend Clutch]

Gene, I got a new name for you... Twisty



The people out west are making plenty of power, They just don't take sled pulling as serious as the midwesterners. (I said down south because they are south of me, sorry) You know there is a lot more to it then power. The rear end and suspension is very important. We all know a single disc has no place at a sled pull. I have said this from day one. But can it hold power, most certainly. We have found that 1100 to 1200 ft lbs of torque is about the max for a single disc. That's not bad power. I will probably sell more of my doubles to drag racers then sled pullers anyway. Most of my work has gone into making it a quick release, they cannot have drag in the gears when they are trying to shift. Will it hold as much as Mitchell's? On paper , yes... will it hold a 1000 hp, who knows because KNOWONE HAS A 1000 HP. I will put up a $1000 bet with you that in Thunder In Muncie this year KNOWONE can come close to that on the dyno. You taken the bet?





Peter

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by South Bend Clutch

.



****. . will it hold a 1000 hp, who knows because KNOWONE HAS A 1000 HP. ****





I will put up a $1000 bet with you that in Thunder In Muncie this year KNOWONE can come close to that on the dyno. You taken the bet?





Peter

Oh my... I expect that from people west of the Mississippi, but from and Indianan????????



I can't take that bet, becuase I have no idea, who or what will dyno at Muncie. Who won last year? Larry Crawford for cryin out loud. Street truck.



I would not be surprised at all to see Jetpilot click an 800 hp run off, though, if he comes. Maybe Kobi, too, if he can keep the head on the block.



Shoot, we ain't even into the pullers yet... ... ...

 

[tpruitt]

ok well i had just written a nice long reply and my computer Internet went down so i am trying it again. When i called Peter to ask about clutches i told him what i wanted to do and what i needed it for (350 to 400 hp)(1 to 2 pulls a year. He said a single disk would work fine. he did tell me that i would have to be careful and if it started to slip then back out of it. Here in VA we are no where near the level at which most of you pull. it is mainly just for fun. knowing me and how i am never satisfied with the power i knew that i would eventually want more power. I ordered the DDUFM last night and i already have DD2 i guess the next thing is a new turbo. When i asked about clutches the only response that i got are from those of you who have the Mitchell pulling clutch. From what i have read and heard the Mitchell was the only real pulling clutch on the market. Since i was originally going to go with SouthBend i am going to stick with them. Its nothing against the Mitchell but i just feel like the SB will better suit my needs. i also not that i will be taken care if when i get the SB. I have never owned a SB clutch but form the post i feel more comfortable buying it over the Micthell.



I did not to get people mad at each other when i started this post i just wanted some advice and i got it. i know what clutch i am going to get and thanks to TDR member i found it.



Trey

 

[78repowerwagon]

I believe there are 1000hp trucks out there. You wont see them on the dyno because it is irrelevant, they prove their products on the track.



When I put my clutch in my manual truck, I put one in that would handle the current power plus some for insurance. Now I want more power again and have the choice of adding power and replacing the clutch next month when it burns up or keeping the power where it is at now.



I do not own a Mitchell clutch, but I have seen the abuse that is thrown at them and they are tough. I have also watched guys try to pull like the guys running the Mitchell and they always stop at less than 75 ft with smoke rolling from the under side of the truck. Speaking from experience here I would guess within 4-6 months instead of wanting 350-400 hp you will want 425 then 450 then... .



Like I said before I am not affiliated with Mitchell or SB I am just saying spend wisely, money wasted is that much less for future BOMBs.

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Originally posted by South Bend Clutch

Larry,



I did not expect this kind of post out of you.

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... . I fully understand your surprise. I have purposely stayed out of the "wars" on TDR and the other forums and try only to offer advice where it might benefit my fellow diesel owners. I might add that I'm not in the business of selling any products on TDR or any other forum.

On the other hand you come on here and violate the TDR posting rules :--) (rules 5. 1 and 5. 2 for sure), then tell me that I should be telling a new guy to worry about his yoke, driveshaft and rearend while sled pulling at low horsepower? Larry



Quote: Peter:

First off, if you sled pull enough times you WILL burn up any clutch.

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So, what is your point? The better question is how many times will it sled pull before the clutch burns up? I've seen highly touted single disc clutches make 1-3 pulls and fail to move the sled. There is a video on another site of Piers smoking his SB clutch trying to pull (for the first time?) a sled with a two wheel drive!! Larry



Quote: Peter:

He comes on here and you guys thrash everything that I just said to him. Yes, I take it personal, now.

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I had no way of knowing that he talked with you or what you told him. That said, I'm shocked that you would say that I (we?) thrashed anything. We said to save your money and get a pulling clutch that will take it. It just so happens that Mitchell's clutch is the only one currently on the market that is considered bullet proof and used by all the serious pullers. You told me a several months ago that you had a Rocky Mountain company developing your sled pulling clutch and the progress was slow. Is this the same company that copied Mitchell's compound turbo's?

As far as you taking it personal... ... ..... it's a free country, take it as you, wish but I find life to be much more enjoyable to not get personal .



Quote: Peter:

Your comments about me owning a diesel and sled pulling and lack of experience. Lets see... I have our clutch in the fastest Audi in the world but I don't own one of them or a Porche or a Mit. 3000 GT twin turbo.

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Good for you, I wish you well. What do that have to do with diesel trucks and 1000 plus ft lbs of torque? Audi's that pull 40,000lb sleds? Larry

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Quote: Peter:



I also never thrashed Mitchell's clutch, I only pointed out what the differences were and it hit a nerve with you. We all know the center plate is the biggest issue. I am making mine as thick as I possible can.

Do you want me to stop working on it because you are satisfied with what you got?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Peter, you said "not yet boys" look at mine, then proceeded with comparisons to Mitchell's clutch... ... . direct violation of TDR rules for vendors. You said in less then two weeks I'll have a clutch that ~4% more plate load, 1/8" thicker hubs? Not thrashing... ... . just a comparison, huh? Does Mitchell's clutch break hubs? Slip due to low clamping power? Hard petal pressure? Then the center plate, if thicker is better, again I say great. I have not seen a problem with any of the current plates. I may be a country boy but I also know that thicker CAN can cause permanent warping when heated. Has anyone seen a Mitchell center plate cause a truck not to complete a sled pull or drive away? If equally designed, thicker will probably be better but design is the key. Now before you start on Dave's truck at Scheid's, I asked him that night and the pressure plate that he was running was not the plate the he sells to the public. I do agree that competition is good and hope to see more products on the market. Why do you need to tear at others if your product is truly superior?



Quote: Peter:

Gene is the only one here that realizes this is only good for the industry. But at least you have someone here that knows some of the weak points and is willing to take a stab at making it better.



enough said

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Gene knows? Well you got me there . He does seem very reluctant to wrench on his own truck. I did learn from him that if you have a cammed up 12V that you need to start your sled pull at 4000rpm and build60lbs of boost. Frankly though, if you tune your stock (pitifully) VP44 pumped 24V for some torque, you can start your pull from 2000-3000rpm. I used to use 2800 and have built as much as 30lbs but now prefer to use 2500rpm and 10lbs. You just use your clutch to "feel" the track and improve traction/limit hopping. PLEASE, don't tell Gene though, he might have a "Amsoil Moment":-{} .



Peter, I have never posted my negative experiences with your and other clutches. I knew that you are easily offended, and only posted re the sled pulling clutch to prevent the $$'s and anguish that to many have expended when they were duped into pulling with a inadequate clutch. You did draw me out, I'll no longer stay quiet because you crossed the line. It's true that my reputation was hurt when your clutches failed (none were ever in competition) and you were less then forthcoming. I did talk directly to you about it, didn't push or complain but that's not my style. If I posted my convictions on 24V clutches, I COULD have said the the newer Centerforce DUALFRICTION clutch is real decent for mid horsepower CTDs, can be purchased for a little over $400. It out performs some higher priced aftermarket clutches. Summit racing sells the dual disc McCleod street clutch for $1070 and that includes a billet flywheel (we need that being limited to 3500rpm?), a spring release centerplate and wonderful streetability. It will hold all but the strongest 24V's on the street and has been known to make it through a full season of sled pulling but they nor I recommend it as a pulling clutch as it will shed the lining if overheated. Some have broken clutch hubs after serious sledding with the street McCleod. The Mitchell clutch IS considered by me and most pullers to be as bulletproof as anything on the market. Better then other stock CTD driveline componets. It has better streetabilty and costs the same or slightly less then the other dual disc pulling clutch now on the market. Yours is not on the market so it may very well be the latest and greatest, who knows? I don't claim to.



Finally I wish you luck with your new clutch. Being a country boy I do hope that you will lift yourself up by your own boot straps, not try to climb to the top by stomping on shoulders.



You have my sincere condolences if a large company such as LUK saw fit to steal your clutch material. I can only imagine how many chemical, mechanical and industrial engineers you have to employ to develop and manufacture the lining the THEY took from YOU. It is a sad statement that society has fallen this far. Larry

 

[Rob Thomas]

Nice post Mr. Crawford!

 

[csevers]

But maybe a little long winded?????

 

[South Bend Clutch]

Larry,



First off, you are right, I should not have made any comparisons. That was wrong and I apologize to the TDR and they should be removed.

I've seen highly touted single disc clutches make 1-3 pulls and fail to move the sled. There is a video on another site of Piers smoking his SB clutch trying to pull (for the first time?) a sled with a two wheel drive!! Larry

My point was there are also people with many many pulls on a singe disc depending on your truck and how you pull. I didn't recommend it to him but if he was going to do it, I would advise as to the best way to do it.



This is what I am talking about... somebody else has used the Piers thing against us and it was proven by others, not us, that it was a flawed casting. It had a big air bubble in it. You were apart of that tread, you new and you still manipulate here with it. How am I suppose to take you now?

You told me a several months ago that you had a Rocky Mountain company developing your sled pulling clutch and the progress was slow. Is this the same company that copied Mitchell's compound turbo's?

Again the twisting!!



I remember the conversation with you and where in that conversation did I say I had someone developing our clutch? My two brothers and myself developed the clutch and and designed the flywheel. I sent the prototype flywheel out to them to be made and they THOUGHT they could make a couple of changes to make it better. We are now back to our original design.

Gene is the only one here that realizes this is only good for the industry. But at least you have someone here that knows some of the weak points and is willing to take a stab at making it better.

The problem with the Internet. I was not saying that Gene knows, I was meaning SBC

Peter, I have never posted my negative experiences with your and other clutches. I knew that you are easily offended,

Man!! That statement is offensive.

It's true that my reputation was hurt when your clutches failed (none were ever in competition) and you were less then forthcoming. I did talk directly to you about it, didn't push or complain but that's not my style

I don't buy it. Anyone that knows me knows all they have to do is give me a call and I will do whatever it takes to make it better. I have sold over 5000 clutches to the CTD world. I am bound to have a few problems but if I were screwing people with parts that really don't work as advertised like you just said, don't you think I would have been exposed by now?

I have not seen a problem with any of the current plates. I may be a country boy but I also know that thicker CAN can cause permanent warping when heated. Has anyone seen a Mitchell center plate cause a truck not to complete a sled pull or drive away? If equally designed, thicker will probably be better but design is the key.

This statement was a guess and you are soooo wrong. Thicker IS better. Again, time will tell.



Prince diesel broke his center plate and wasn't even sled pulling.



Larry, I don't take any of this personal and hope we can still chew the fat at the events. You are a great guy with alot to offer.





Peter

 

[01_HO]

clutches

I have a 01 HO six speed and at a past time I was running a EDGE EZ. 12,000 miles I was in need of a clutch, at the time I assumed that I was not going to go any more HP (boy was I wrong). So I purchaced a SBC, and it did work great for the street (every day driver, rairly pulled trailer, and didn't pull sled at time). I upgraded to a EDGE Comp and from there to dd2 and 33/12. 50s MT Claws, It still seemed to do good(at Sheidsdyno 338hp 929tq at rw) on the street. The first time I pulled was in forth gear low lock, I sliped the clutch some, and did make a respectible pull. The next time I pulled was in my home town and tried to pull in 4th low side, and didn't move the sled. . twice, very embaresed. I pulled off the track and was wondering what I did wrong? The next 3 or 4 pulles I pulled in 3rd low,and did pull the sled and beat some fords and some stock dodges but din't stand a chance against the guys pulling in higher gear/or dull disc clutch(Mitchels). I finaly put a Mitchel clutch in after seeing Larry C win consitintly and myself going to a higher hp/tq. Now I can pull the sled in 4th low and or 2nd high easily.

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Originally posted by South Bend Clutch

Larry,



I don't take any of this personal and hope we can still chew the fat at the events.



Peter

Peter,

'Nuff said, I look forward to seeing you at the events. Life is too short not to make and keep friends.



If I contributed to a thread regarding Piers clutch/sledpull, I have forgotten. I'll search the thread to refresh my memory but only remember seeing the video and someone ribbing him (?), I don't recall my posting or being a part of anything.

Larry

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Originally posted by csevers

But maybe a little long winded?????

Yes, I agree entirely. lc

 

[Sled Puller]

Anyone else notice how they talk about me like I'm not here?

 

[TxDieselKid]

and I thought auto transmission threads were bad, I can feel the heat from here... .



#ad

 

[Sled Puller]

Well?

How did the SBC dual discs hold up this season?



The guy I gave my coupon to, his held up. (just one set of discs replaced)



Of course, he was crushed at every pull. Couple times by a single chargered HX-40 truck--who was running a Mitchell clutch!!!





We still need an SFI approved flywheel and clutch that will hold up.

 

[JDailey]

Gene-just one set of discs... . ?? How many hooks on them? My Haisley clutch has close to 100 hooks on it. Still the original discs. SFI will happen. I think it will be mandatory soon, unfortunatly... . there are people still running cast flywheels and clutch parts. When some one is dead maybe they will learn.

 

[Cumminsman]

ok to all. not gonna be one of the first to pull with a sbc twin clutch. but i'd like to know why there is a $600 price difference in between the eep clutch and the haisley clutch with the steel flywheel. why do they say that the haisely comp clutch is not very streetable? i just bought a con fe clutch for my tow truck. i hope that it last a VERY long time. later, nick

 

[JDailey]

Nick-you get what you pay for. One, Haisley's clutch uses a steel flywheel. Mitchell's does not. Why... . I don't know? They also use different pressure plates and I'm sure different discs. The comp clutch uses a centrifically weighted cover. The toughest trucks in the country(open and street classes) run Van's clutches. Mitchell's clutch works well... don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't feel safe running down the track with a cast flywheel... . would you? Btw-you can drive the comp on the street. It's heavy and takes a little while to shift gears. It's sometimes hard to get in and out of gears. We run one in a street truck during the summer. He drives back and forth to work everyday(60-70 miles a day). There are also alot of tough trucks running Haisley's steet puller. Smith diesel's trucks run them and they are as tough as they come.