i have the scoop on the lift pump problem

[Arcticat]

Brandon, if you find that fitting it'll be a miracle. I honestly don't think it exists. You would be better off calling earls and telling them there is a market for a 90deg 12mm male to -8 hose end and see if they will start making it. Or have a machine shop modify the 1/4npt hose end they already make. As far as the added length of -8 line goes, the parker adapter method is no worse in length than the weber adapters that people have been using with -6, or using a -6 to -8 union. If you have a 12mm hose end such as what I have the line is as short as it can possibly be, and in fact shorter than the line kits using the weber adapter.
If you don't want to neck down the -8 at the fuel filter housing, drill it out and retap for 1/4 or 3/8 npt. Personally I want to retain a stock filter housing so that I can put my stock lines back on someday if I sell the truck. Plus you can drill out 12mm fittings to 5/16 ID, which I think is enough for what I'm going to do. In fact, I'm going to leave the stock metal supply line on the frame rail, connected to the stock lift pump, and leave the short hose on the lift pump outlet. All I'm going to remove in order to install my new system is the rubber line from the tank pickup to the metal line, and the banjo bolt that connects the filter housing inlet to the lift pump. Then let's say my aftermarket pump craps out on a Monday, all I have to do is put the rubber line back on the tank pickup, plug in the stock lift pump wiring harness, and screw one banjo fitting into the filter housing inlet, and I'm ready to drive until I get things fixed.
Chris, I need the fuel heater, it was 0deg here a week ago. I looked at my fuel heater element and saw no problem with dilling right through it, and I will find out soon enough if it's a problem. Another aspect to that as MM pointed out to me is that the fuel will now be spraying on the filter wheras it was difused before, this might cause deterioration of the filter, so he is modifying his differently than I did. I will find out if that's a problem too.
BTW I've got a MXZ600, yeah I know it's not a Cat, but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on it. I would bomb it if I had any money left from the truck.

[This message has been edited by Arcticat (edited 03-20-2001). ]

 

[csutton7]

Articat--I left my stock lines in too, so that if the BG craps out it would be very easy to hook up in a pinch-if needed--

I thought HVAC welded on some mat'l on the filter and then tapped for a bigger inlet/outlet or was he thinking about this & never did it because if you did this, plus drill thru the heater you might fix the whole shebang--I'm gonna see if I can get to a junk yard and russle up some parts to play with--chris

 

[JR2]

Count me as another member waiting for this grand experiment to come up with the answers to our problems. I have no experience in this sort of thing at all, but I am willing to pay others to build me parts.

I do have one question thought. If I was going to add a second pump back by the tank, how do I power it? I know I could wire it with a relay to some ingition circut so that it would come on with the key, but I don't necessarly want it running any the time the key is on?? The only other two ways I could come up with is using a relay and splicing into the stock pump power supply so that when the stock pump runs the second one does too or a simple switch in the cab that turns it on. Any one have any good ideas or comments??

I ride a Summit 700 with a 2 inch paddle... boondocking is a way of life in Alaska... trails are for wimps. Check out the link in my sig for one great pick of me and my sled.

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John D. Rathert Jr.
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01 2500 Forrest Green Sport SLT+ QC LWB 4x4 Auto 3. 54 rear end with all options avail. DC Nerf Bars, DC Grill Guard, DC mud flaps, Line-X bed liner, Leer 160XL Topper, Power Edge, EZ Edge, SPA Boost/EGT Gauge on pillar mount, DTT's tc/vb combo, 275 RV injectors, DD 4" Exhaust and a KN RE0880 where the air box use to be. New turbo (HX40), SS fuel lines and bigger injectors in planning stages... . See My Truck, Dads truck: 98. 5 3500 SLT QC LWB 4x4, Brother Truck: 92 W250 SLT CC LWB 4x4 (Dads old truck) Winter fun - 2000 Skidoo Summit 700
I am my own warranty station. ZOOM ZOOM
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[This message has been edited by JR2 (edited 03-20-2001). ]

 

[Evan A. Beck]

Now I am leaning towards 8AN line for everything. If we can't find the Weber 12 x 1. 5 - 8AN adapters, maybe we can get a group purchase going to get them made? There must be something we can do. What I don't want to do is have to use a bunch of reducers and bushings to get the 8AN line to connect to 12 x 1. 5 thread.

I am going to contact Ted J about getting the tank module separate, as I think that is the way to go about it.

BTW, anyone know what the deal is with the Mallory 4140 marine version pump?

How about 12AN line? HEHEH #ad
Just kidding...

One other thing I have been thinking about, is the banjo fitting for the overflow valve. Seems that it is going to be a restriction on the outlet side, resulting in less flow coming into the VP44. I have been trying to come up with something for that, but am coming up empty so far... Anyone got any input.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

evan , i'm guessing that we are going to need a larger pickup , i'm not ready to do that yet , still testing the limits of the stock line , i just checked and you can put a 3/8 compression fitting on the outlet of the stock pickup , tomorrow i'm going to plumb a 3/8 hardline off the top of the tank to the stock pump relocated as far back as possible , lengthing the stock wiring .

i also just talked to carter again , they can't give out the flow rating of the stock pump , its proprioritory (sp?), i just laughed at the guy . he said he did talk to an engineer about it and they know what chrysler is doing with the pump , recommended them not to , but they said that is how they were going to do it . mother knows best #ad


there is a rebuild kit for the pumps , a rotor and vane kit part number 888-178 , this will also work on the stock pump . i'm begining to think i wasted some money , going to return at least one 7 psi pump and get a 15 psi pump .

carter also suggested dumping the stock pump in favor of the 15 psi unit placed as close to tank as possible and not above the fuel level in the tank , at least not high above it , on the frame in front of the tank is fine .

evan , that marine pump is just that, a pump thats meets coast guard requirements , it probably uses brass and aluminum and the motor is sealed so an electric spark internal to the motor will not blow up das boot #ad
. would actually be a good part to be living underneath the truck, especially in a road salt enviorment , though i plan to build a box to sheild the pump once i get the mounting location permanent .

and the overflow valve , i would also like to find a replacement that is cheaper than the 80 bucks that it cost from cummins . i guess some kind of pressure relief valve that is set to open at 14 psi ??? i'll look in the grainger catolog . wait , brandon there something else for you to chase , it will probably be in NPT , so 1/4 or 3/8 is prefered mounted to an adaptor off the pump , man this is going to be ugly ...



[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 03-20-2001). ]

 

[csutton7]

UPDATE-- On the return line the 1/2" brass threaded tee kept leaking & I couldn't get the hose clamp to tighten enuff to stop the leak(was leaking around the threads and I had those clamps tighter than Dick's hatband on a Sunday go to church mtg-so you need to buy two -08 to socketless fittings a 6" pc. of -08 hose and slip a 1. 5" to 2" pc of the -08 hose onto each -08 socketless fitting and slip this into the OEM fill overflow hose & clamp it down--so far so good---I'll keep you posted---on my test drive this morning couldn't get her below 11psi at WOT---this pump is looking good, but I did think about the Mallory marine version----I'm not sure if the Mallory marine pump comes with a regulator-----chris

 

[Brandon]

ok you all got me the 8an weber adaptors are nonexistant so far, but I got a man on the hunt, if any one can find it he can. Well we think they can be made, but probably want to do a hundred or so

High flow fuel filter in process of locating
B

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Danelle's Dodge

 

[Mopar-muscle]

boy this is getting long , so much info , and i need to get those pics off the camera and get them posted on these threads . . sorry guys . . plus i got yet another pic to take .

if its stock , i'll BOMB it , took apart the fuel heater , didn't like the idea of drilling holes and then trying to get all the schrapnel out . it actually came apart fairly easy , marked where i wanted the holes and 5 minutes in the rotex and i had that thing looking like swiss cheese . i added about 6 3/8ths holes , i have 3 straight thru holes and the others make the maze get more fuel quicker , hopefully i haven't made it so it will burn out , hate to have my filter housing in flames . i'll put it back in tomorrow when i do some banjo swapping around and have the lines drained , yet again .

on the filter , i like the idea of having a filter AFTER the LIFT pump , my reasoning is that if the lift pump self destructs , the carnage don't get to the injection pump , maybe a hi flow filter pre pump and the stock after , but you'd need a fuel heater in that pre filter if you live in a cold climate .


i think we need to summarize this and maybe start a new thread soon , lots of info and lots of posts .

 

[kevin1]

we are running a 1. 25 fuel system on our pull tractors I will check out our stuff and post it IM not sure what we are using we never fool with that part of the tractor hmmm maybe we are not getting enough fuel? na we have plenty of SMOKE

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2001. 5 ETH/DEE 4x4, DRW QC DD3's, EZ, HX40 machined out for more flow, Custom 4" exhaust turbo back staight pipe with 5" chrome tip in front of rear tires,spa's, mcleod clutch, fuel lines,mag hytech rear end cover,psycotty air system,relocated blow by bottle,Lucerix power heated mirrors,more to come

 

[David_VT]

is this the weber part? (from old HVAC photos)
use this link as the photo just will not post properly. It is a big photo so will take a bit to pull and uncompress. old HVAC fuel line photo
I think it was taken by MCrossley in BPine's driveway during one of my many CA trips.



[This message has been edited by David_VT (edited 03-21-2001). ]

 

[csutton7]

yes that's the part--

MM-did you take some pics of where you drilled the heater? Yes a summary would probably be smart, but I say wait until Articat, you & me have our systems in place or at least two of us and the the 3rd(probably me) can add to it--wife hates me even more than before---And you got something with the OEM catching debris it the pump ever gives up the ghost-very smart----If I can get to junk yard and get a filter head and weld on a bigger bung, drill and tap it for -08 or 1/2" pipe then this may be the easiest way to go & maybe drilling the heater if the test proves beneficial over the long haul--I need to play with different pressure settings to see which setting provides the least amount of drop across the board-chris

Brandon---- if we are leaving the OEM filter in I think the only gain would be that the pre filter may provide the pump with a safety net, so to speak,--I saw the twins--awesome--chris

 

[Brandon]

agreed, I am looking for fuel filter set up now
B

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Danelle's Dodge

 

[Mopar-muscle]

yes , i'll wait on summary , i did pick up fuel line and 3/8ths hardline on the way in this am , i'm going to move the stock pump rearward with the factory wiring and banjos.

davidvt , those are the webers , but they are for -6 .

arcticat , i need the part number for that -8 to 1/4 npt swivel so i can get and modify , i want to ditch these banjos by next weekend .

hopefully i'll get my TC swapped out this coming weekend so i can get the DD3's in .

 

[csutton7]

DavidVT--wow on the swagelok stuff--looks interesting--they have AN fittings and pipe thread, but I didn't see anything to get us into or out of the filter head or VP44 although I scanned it briefly-I'll check it out again later--I can order the stuff out here in CA as they have a distributor about 30 minutes away(depending on traffic) and they will take any size order if you guys run into trouble ordering---and yes it will work for diesel----chris

 

[Evan A. Beck]

I think I am going to go with the marine pump, it's design will be perfect for under the rig.

As to the -08 to 12 x 1. 5 adapters, even if we have to get 100 made, it will be worth it. Each truck needs at least 3 of them, so 100 is enough for 33 trucks. Surely we can get 33 guys out of the 6,800 registered on this site to opt for the adapters. That's only . 004%... I bet we will need AT LEAST 100 made. I think once we get a good fuel system made up, it is really going to catch on. Everything is still in the R&D stage now. Lots of guys are just waiting for the right setup to be figured out.



[This message has been edited by Evan A. Beck (edited 03-25-2001). ]

 

[ARARAR]

Hey! I found that thread about drilling out the banjo fittings. It's 3/16 not 3/8". Check it out> http://dodgeram.org/ram_frame.html

 

[ARARAR]

Hey! I found that thread about drilling out the banjo fittings. http://dodgeram.org/ram_frame.html Click on articles then click on diesel-go to the bottom of the page to More Power-click on it. Lots of good info.

[This message has been edited by arar (edited 03-21-2001). ]

 

[David_VT]

Ariticat,
We going to share on this one as you suggested earlier? Are you ordering parts yet? Give me a ring so we can work together on it! #ad

 

[David_VT]

I don't know costs on this stuff, but I bet what we need can be found here:
http://www.swagelok.com/en/jhtml/CatalogsList. jhtml

There are a ton of pdf files that my slow connection just can't deal with. Somebody please check it out.

Male NPT Threads
Hex Nipples
Pipe
Size
in.
Basic
Ordering
Number
A
in. (mm)
E
in. (mm)
F
Hex
Flat
. in.
Pressure Ratings
psig (bar)
¹⁄₁₆ -1-HN
1. 01 (25. 6)
0. 12 (3. 0) ⁵ ⁄₁₆ 11 000 (757) 5500 (348)
¹⁄₈ -2-HN 0. 19 (4. 8) ⁷ ⁄₁₆ 10 000 (689) 5000 (344)
¹⁄₄ -4-HN 1. 40 (35. 6) 0. 28 (7. 1) ⁹ ⁄₁₆ 8 000 (551) 4000 (275)
³⁄₈ -6-HN 1. 43 (36. 3) 0. 38 (9. 6) ¹¹⁄₁₆ 7 800 (537) 3900 (268)
¹⁄₂ -8-HN
1. 84 (46. 7)
0. 47 (11. 9) ⁷ ⁄₈ 7 700 (530) 3800 (261)
³⁄₄ -12-HN 0. 62 (15. 7) 1 ¹⁄₁₆ 7 300 (502) 3600 (248)
1 -16-HN 2. 32 (58. 9) 0. 88 (22. 4) 1 ³⁄₈ 5 300 (365) 2600 (179)
Heavy-Wall Male NPT Threads
¹⁄₄ SS-4-HN-10K 1. 40 (35. 6) 0. 23 (5. 8) ⁹ ⁄₁₆
10 000 (689)
¹⁄₂ SS-8-HN-10K 1. 84 (46. 7) 0. 39 (9. 9) ⁷ ⁄₈
A
E
F
316 SS, Steel Brass
—

[This message has been edited by David_VT (edited 03-21-2001). ]

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Count me in for custom -8 to 12mm fittings.

When looking at my metal lines from the tank I thought about switching over to the return line--which is larger--and making it my pickup line. The pickup line is too small for a return though and you'd have to plumb a return line of some type. I'm cheap, I'd use rubber fuel line. Then you could use the stock supply line for additional supply, return, or regulator return line or whatever. Something like this could be relatively easy to return to stock.

Eliminating the tank pickup restriction--if I understood HVAC correctly, he dropped his tank, drilled a hole in the cap, insterted a bulhead mount and connected a 1/2" tube (copper I thing) in as the pickup. Doing something like that can't be too difficult, dropping the tank is relatively easy if you're low on fuel. This would be pretty cheap for budget BOMBers like myself.

Vaughn