Is Possible to Swap in an Aisin in Place of a 68RFE?

[GCecchetto]

Is it Possible to Swap in an Aisin in Place of a 68RFE?

Curious if anyone has tried this? Seems likely pretty easy mechanically, but probably very difficult if not impossible electronically. Before someone says just buy a truck with an Aisin, let me explain. I didn't buy a truck with an Aisin to start with because I overland with the truck and have a custom expedition camper I built for it. Really wanted the coil spring rear suspension. The truck has a Thuren long travel suspension in it and a custom long travel airbag system in the rear to carry the camper but still articulate easily off road. I also have a lot of other custom work in the truck, so it just doesn't make sense to start over.

 

[EricPeterson]

At a guess, I'd say the mechanical elements would involve the flexplate/torque converter, transfer case adapter, and transmission mounts or crossmember and mounts. You might need to change the whole transfer case or the transfer case input spline shaft. The engine might shift in the bay a bit for the two installs, meaning engine mounts and any rigid lines would change, too. You might need to change/change length for the front driveshaft and the front half of the rear driveshaft. But that's just guesswork.

I'm going to assume, based on my experience, that a closely coupled modern engine and transmission aren't going to be electrically connected solely via CAN links. Is there a separate TCU? There'd be a TCU mounting location somewhere.... a goodly portion of the harness devoted to the communications between ECU and TCU. if the Aisin and the 68rfe share a TCU in the same location and use unique software loads, then there's a chance the main engine harness is actually the same for the two transmissions, right down to the connectors, but the natural perversity of the universe demands that the TCUs be unique, use different connectors, mount in different locations, and thus require different harnesses, maybe even with different circuit counts and routing headed back to the ECU. That would render a physical electrical swap very, very involved. Then you've got software loads for the ECU and auxiliary electrical connections to the transmission. Is there a controller for the transfer case, or is that slaved from the TCU or managed by the body/dash module?

I'd like to think that today's manufacturing practices would decree that they're interchangeable subject to different software loads to the TCU and ECU... but I don't believe it for a minute. Google doesn't pull up any obvious and clear data one way or the other, except that gen 2 and gen 3 trucks appear to have separate TCUs, as expected. At a minimum you'd start with a substantial research project.

Just out of curiosity, why would you want to install the Aisin in a 2500? I did a lot of research before I identified my truck, and the best advice I got was that I wouldn't need the Aisin unless I was pulling a 5th wheel trailer up and down mountains on a regular basis.

 

[NIsaacs]

Maybe with his custom truck he needs/wants PTO access?

Nick

 

[EricPeterson]

The Aisin has a PTO? That's something I didn't uncover/no one mentioned. Which way does it point -- front or rear?

 

[NIsaacs]

The Aisin has a PTO? That's something I didn't uncover/no one mentioned. Which way does it point -- front or rear?

It is PTO capable, I think it has access on both sides, one side for sure.

Nick

 

[GCecchetto]

Yes, suspect it would be a massive research project, but I thought I would ask the question, as sometimes things that seem super complicated end up not being as bad as you thought. Auto manufactures are trying to use every part they can across as many platforms as they can, so it may be that there is more standardization than we think. That said, it's more than likely much more than i want to deal with.

As to why I would want to do the swap....because I hate the 68RFE in my truck. It may be strong, and it may be for the most part reliable, but it shifts like crap, and seems to have a mind of it's own. I'm sick of the sudden slamming downshifts, and the flare up shifts, and it's free wheeling down steep hills even when in tow haul mode. If I could go back in time to when I bought this truck, I would by another G56 truck. I have had four Rams, this is the first one with an auto, bought mostly because I'm in the SF Bay Area and the traffic is horrible, but I also wanted the additional output. Turns out, thanks to the torque management that makes nothing happen when you press the accelerator pedal, that it probably isn't really any more output. I have owned a Duramax powered vehicle with the Alison trans, and it shift beautifully. Nice and crisp, and did what you expected it to do. Truthfully, if I could go back in time, I wouldn't buy this truck at all, it's been a huge hunk of crap, and has been in the shop for over 90 days of the three years I have owned it. Endless going arounds with FCA got me nowhere, other than an offer to give me $1500 since they guessed my payment was about $500 a month, but I had to sign papers releasing them and all their dealers from any responsibility for anything to do with the vehicle, so I told them to keep their ****ty offer. Guess they couldn't understand the financial loss taking time off work, the rental cars, the hotels in places I never planned to go on my road trips when the thing sent me to the dealer in the middle of my vacations, which it did three years in a row on my summer road trip with my son. FCA produces garbage these days, but I can't afford to take the financial hit of buying a new vehicle and redoing all of the setup for the type of use I use the truck for.

 

[Bob4x4]

imho not worth attempting,Beyond all the obvious the wiring harnesses are different.controllers etc.Finding someone capable of handling the swap would be difficult or impossible.Just a heads up there is nothing wrong with leafs in the rear,mine articulates just fine.A bit of research may have lead you to AEV that has some good options for overlanding and not frowned on by FCA.

 

[EricPeterson]

I've seen some weirdness in tow/haul, on downhills, but I haven't used it enough to get a solid bead on it. And I've seen some weird unloaded floaty shifts that annoy me a little, but .... so far... the truck does everything it's supposed to do so well that those aren't really tallying up much in the balance sheet. If anything it seems to be happier and a little more predictable with a 5000 lb trailer. When I was doing my research, I found a lot of happy campers and a few guys who had horror stories. One guy got his truck because it was someone else's horror story, but the new owner is super happy with it, and it's been trouble-free. What's been going on with yours?

 

[GCecchetto]

imho not worth attempting,Beyond all the obvious the wiring harnesses are different.controllers etc.Finding someone capable of handling the swap would be difficult or impossible.Just a heads up there is nothing wrong with leafs in the rear,mine articulates just fine.A bit of research may have lead you to AEV that has some good options for overlanding and not frowned on by FCA.

I know AEV well, have been in their development shop in Missoula, and there are plenty of their products on my Ram. Yes leafs work, but I assure you your leaf sprung truck won't get close to the 14" of travel my truck has in the rear. It's a traction monster off road, simply unbelievable where it will go in two wheel drive. On my last trip through Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Washington, and Oregon, I never had to lock it into four wheel drive. Would a leaf spring truck work for me, sure, but it wouldn't be as capable. You also run into the GVWR issue for having the vehicle towed. AAA won't touch a 3500 unless you have a camper or trailer on them with a bed and toilet. My camper has no toilet in it.

 

[Hippy43]

This thread is absolutely no good without pictures. <LOL>

 

[Kirwin]

Depends on you pocket book. You could swap the entire Aisin drive train from a 3500. The ECU is on the engine. Not sure about if the instrument cluster would be OK with it though. On the 2013s anyway the TCU is under the dash for the Aisin trucks. I doubt the wiring would be that hard if you did the entire swap. Only thing left would be tail light and such wiring. Now melding the non-Asin engine ECU to Aisin equipped truck that would be a job I'd suspect.

 

[kthaxton]

Seems like it would be easier and cheaper to do a custom rear suspension on a 3500.....if the Aisin is the priority.

 

[GCecchetto]

Well....was uploading some pics to put your mind at ease, but the files are all too big. Too much time involved downsizing for this. Sorry

 

[GCecchetto]

I'll likely do some research on mods to clean up the shifting of the 68RFE.

 

[p-Bar]

Why don't you call Goerend transmissions and ask them if they are making any hop up parts for the 68? I used their parts in my 48RE. He has one of the only trans/dyno units. http://goerend.com/shop-all/

 

[JR]

Perhaps there is a flash that would correct your shifting issues? The only thing mine does that I've not seen on other transmissions is the brief flare when upshifting. It's very brief, not enough to lose any speed while accelerating with a heavy load and the transmission and shift points feel solid in every gear to me. The EB is a bit strange in that it will kick off if on flat land after speed is reduced approximately 20mph (just a guess). But I've had it on 7% grades near max GCVW and it works well. Minimal service brakes required.
I agree with the above comment that it seems to be happier with a good load hooked to it. I've driven other auto transmissions that behave the exact opposite.

 

[GCecchetto]

Unfortunately software is current. Looking under the hood today, i see i have a cracked y pipe in the cooling system and heat shield delaminating off the firewall/trans tunnel. this truck is a money pit.