Need To Buy Batteries. (Gasp)

[Matt42]

It is time again to buy a set of batteries for my 1996. My current pair, the Batteries-Plus X-Treme 950 CCA house brand AGM are now just under 6 years old. By Arizona desert standards, they are antiques. One is discharging into the other, as they don't discharge at the same rates. (They were from different lot numbers when I bought them, so I just knew there was going to be trouble some day.) They've been OK, though, and reliable.

The truck came with (if I recall correctly) 750 CCA flooded cell batteries. I quit using flooded cell batteries here because of their short desert lifespan and their propensity to quit without any warning at all. By "no warning at all" I mean it would be 115F outside, we would drive to the grocery, come out with 15 gallons of ice cream, and the batteries would be dead. And that would be maybe at 24 months after the batteries were new.

What AGM batteries are arid desert dwellers using with success? Northern state, Canadian and Alaskan experience doesn't seem to apply. A colleague, for example, got 8 years out of the OEM flood cell batteries in her 2007 CTD in Wyoming. Additionally, I don't want to mess with battery terminal corrosion. AGM batteries put a total stop to that for me.

I had success with Optima batteries until they moved their manufacturing from Colorado to Mexico. Then my experience with them was terrible. Exact Batteries-Plus replacements are $350 each. Has anyone tried the less-expensive (by about $100 each) Interstate AGM batteries that Costco sells? They are in H6, H7 and H8 sizes. They will fit, but involve rerouting the cables because the terminals are reversed.

In other words, I don't want to spend $700 on batteries if I can avoid it. But I also don't want flooded cell batteries.

 

[EDankievitch]

I just had to get battery’s again the exide AMG’s didn’t last. 2 years an 3 months and they couldn’t start my truck on cold mornings. I will say Rock Auto did honer the warranty. But the exide ones were out of stock. I ended up buying a set of Bosch AMG’s . Rock auto refunded my money on the exide ones. Less shipping.
The Bosch ones crank her over way better than any battery ever has.

 

[BigPapa]

I would recommend Deka AGM’s. If you don’t have a local Deka retailer, I believe the Napa batteries are made by East Penn who makes the Deka’s.

On a side note, I’m running Group 65’s. They’re offered in a higher CCA than the original size. They fit the trays but the hold downs won’t work. I made some straps to hold mine down, although they rode with nothing holding them down for about 18 months with no problems.

 

[Matt42]

On a side note, I’m running Group 65’s. They’re offered in a higher CCA than the original size. They fit the trays but the hold downs won’t work. I made some straps to hold mine down, although they rode with nothing holding them down for about 18 months with no problems.

I neglected to mention that I'm running Group 27 batteries right now. So Group 65 would be a good replacement. I can fabricate a mount adapter.

 

[JR]

Ditto on the Deka although I'm not sold that AGM is the answer in high temps. Any battery sealed or not in hot temps WILL lose water through evaporation. AGM's are not exempt just because they are "sealed". They have internal pressure relief valves which vent under extreme temps, with no ability to monitor and replace water/acid as needed it is only a matter of time before they go dry.

Regardless, Deka carries an unconditional 5 year FREE replacement warranty. They are quality units.

 

[Tuesdak]

My current pair, the Batteries-Plus X-Treme 950 CCA house brand AGM are now just under 6 years old. By Arizona desert standards, they are antiques.

In other words, I don't want to spend $700 on batteries if I can avoid it. But I also don't want flooded cell batteries.

$700/6 years = $116.67 per year.

Sounds like you are making a recommendation and should maybe go buy the same thing. Yes 6 years: that's 3x the normal battery life in AZ, period. It's what $200+ for other batteries that may make it 2 years, well, at least via warranty you buy 2 years of battery.

Now for the same money you could consider a pair of Lifeline AGM's. I am assuming these would work but you should double check as well as check it's measurements.

GPL-27T

https://lifelinebatteries.com/products/marine-batteries/gpl-27t/

And about high temperature making short life of batteries: From page 23 I added "⁰F". How hot does it get under the hood with the AC on? And then it never cools off much here.

https://321166-984045-raikfcquaxqnc...F-Lifeline-Technical-Manual-Final-5-06-19.pdf

Battery calendar and cycle life are also affected by temperature. As a rule of thumb, the battery life decreases by 50% for every 10⁰C rise in temperature. Thus, a battery that lasts 6 years at 25⁰C (77F) will last 3 years at 35⁰C (95F), 1.5 years at 45⁰C (113F), and 0.75 years at 55⁰C (131F). Similarly, a battery that lasts 1000 cycles at 25⁰C will last 500 cycles at 35⁰C, 250 cycles at 45⁰C, and 125 cycles at 55⁰C.

I would recommend Deka AGM’s

Sadly Deka AGM's can't take the heat here. Worse they can't even take Consumer Report's heat test.

3 months and one battery failed. The case distortion is clear...

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Odyssey

 

[GrantP]

I haven't been able to get more than 3 years out of a set of Optimas since the ownership change, I'm done with them too. I needed new batteries last fall in my truck and was in a pinch and got the standard batteries from Costco. They were $99 each and come with a three year free replacement warranty. I watched a lady in line in front of me return one of her interstate batteries, she just said "it was bad". They didn't test it, no questions asked and put a new battery in her cart, no charge. She asked about the warranty and the Costco rep claimed the warranty started new again with the replacement. I'm still in disbelief over that last piece. If the warranty starts over that could mean free batteries for life for those of us in the desert.

I wanted AGM's too but I can buy a whole lot of baking soda (and ice cream) for a couple hundred bucks. So far there has been zero corrosion with the Interstates.

NAPA AGM's are a good price and made by East Penn. I just put one in my wife's car yesterday so no long term experience yet, hopefully they'll be better than Optimas.

 

[Wayne M.]

Hmmmm.
This is the first time I’ve ever read anything like this- how batteries suffer in extreme heat. Yup I know the attrition rate in my climate zone, when the first heat wave takes place, but the factor that tuesdak lays out is startling!
Has anyone thought about cooling jackets? Similar to the insulation jackets the trucks come with when new, but perhaps something flooded with a liquid and recirculated, maybe under bedside through an exchanger like a trans cooler?
I don’t know... I’m just thinking out loud.

 

[BigPapa]

Well, I guess you AZ boys are stuck with Hydrogen-Oxygen fuel cells then....

 

[JR]

Sadly Deka AGM's can't take the heat here. Worse they can't even take Consumer Report's heat ]

Tuesdak, curious how many batteries were tested to draw this conclusion?

 

[GAmes]

I bought a used boat with 2 year old Interstate AGMs in it a couple months ago. The trolling motor batteries went flat 6 hours into a planned 7 hour trip. When I got home I pulled the four year old Optimas out of my old boat and swapped them. The next trip was a full day of fishing with no failures. The Optimas have endured the heat of TX every summer. The Interstates were used in the Kansas City area which I believe doesn't average out as being as hot in the summer. The Optimas in my truck are at least 5 years old. When I do need new batteries they will be Optimas. BTW, I have a used 18 ft Ranger bass boat for sale. I'll discount the price now that I've disclosed the health of the batteries.

 

[JR]

2-3 years is the going rate for Interstates around here too. Sounds like the PO got their moneys worth.

 

[Macarena Man]

I neglected to mention that I'm running Group 27 batteries right now. So Group 65 would be a good replacement. I can fabricate a mount adapter.

Would the OEM battery size be 31 ?

 

[Cummins12V98]

I would recommend Deka AGM’s. If you don’t have a local Deka retailer, I believe the Napa batteries are made by East Penn who makes the Deka’s.

On a side note, I’m running Group 65’s. They’re offered in a higher CCA than the original size. They fit the trays but the hold downs won’t work. I made some straps to hold mine down, although they rode with nothing holding them down for about 18 months with no problems.

Parent Company is East Penn, they make QUALITY!!!

 

[jfmaz]

In all my vehicles I just buy the Wally World batteries and figure they will go bad at 3 years and one month - if they make it that long. Group 65 sells for $100 with 3 year free replacement right now. Thats $65+ a year for the CTD. Never had a battery last more than 3-1/2 years here in the AZ heat for the last 30 years living here, no matter what brand or type, so I finally adopted the Wally World replace every few years method.

 

[Tuesdak]

Tuesdak, curious how many batteries were tested to draw this conclusion?

Again the extreme heat makes this area of the country special. Some of what lasts and works well for others is crying "UNCLE!!!" in a very short time here. Batteries, tires, wiper blades, dashboards, paint. (interiors) At least rust isn't a factor for some of us. I will seriously consider the Batteries-Plus X-Treme AGM @Matt42 mentioned long life with here: They simply can't do worse than other batteries I have tried.

Except for the Dodge/RAM I replace batteries every 2 years if they make it that long... (I have better luck with the RAM charging system thus battery life over GM.) I can't speak for Consumer Reports, but, 3 months is enough to kick them out of the Devil's Kitchen as they can't take the heat. I only used two. The case deformation may be said to be "ok" but it's bending every plate/grid/connection in the bulge. The load tester showed high, low, then high CCA's. I am glad the bad connection in the battery didn't blow it up under that test! Flooded batteries would make a little over 1 year in that dual battery diesel hot rod.

It's common to replace batteries in August at 1 year old here or the first cold snap after the summer heat has damaged em.

Some AGM's use a metal case reinforcement to handle the internal pressure from high heat and not bulge. Deka's need to work on their AGM high heat endurance.

Has anyone thought about cooling jackets?

The underhood heat and cool down being not that cool overnight is an average high temp. Yeah the insulating blankets help keep the heat blast out of the batteries. The air coming off the condenser alone is 160 degrees F then it hits the other radiators in the cooling stack. The LLY Duramax I had was known to boil washer fluid in the reservoir under the hood.

It's best to get the batteries out from the underhood heat. Even lower on the frame keeps the underhood heatsoak from a shut off engine from keeping them hot.

I have seen underhood battery boxes with ram air cooling tubes on Hummer H3's.

@GAmes I have given up on Optima's. Of course we are a step hotter here and that hurts all batteries. Optimas crack and leak. Out of 6 I bought most failed in 2 years. One warranty exchanged battery went the distance 7 years after I got it out of diesel engine use into sissy infrequent gas engine starting use and was garaged. (No grids, no glowplugs, not a 10 HP diesel starter making more torque than our lug nuts take...) It's sister, also warranty exchanged at the same time, on another gas rig shorted a cell and didn't make it long.

Optimas are a real PIA to get warranty on. Not everyone has the same part number so another store can't warranty your battery, Optima is closed on the weekends so they can't call when it dies on a weekend to get an override, and you better have the receipt or you are SOL. Interstate, Internet, local parts stores: have at least two different part numbers for the same battery making sure the store can't warranty a different part number without Optimas explicit weekday blessing.

GM side post use here and this crack is leaking acid. Spillproof is NOT Leakproof! Oh yeah, even this leaking failure required a call to Optima. 4 of the 6 did this to me.

 

[HPSimpson]

Odyssey

The Odyssey in '96 are 7 years old still going strong, i have these in my dive boat as well way better than Optimas which I think are junk!

 

[bcbender]

I've always run the Kirkland (Costco) batteries and knock on wood get 5~6yr out of em. Only bought two sets on my 04 in 10yrs... but maybe I was lucky.

 

[Regcabguy]

I haven't been able to get more than 3 years out of a set of Optimas since the ownership change, I'm done with them too. I needed new batteries last fall in my truck and was in a pinch and got the standard batteries from Costco. They were $99 each and come with a three year free replacement warranty. I watched a lady in line in front of me return one of her interstate batteries, she just said "it was bad". They didn't test it, no questions asked and put a new battery in her cart, no charge. She asked about the warranty and the Costco rep claimed the warranty started new again with the replacement. I'm still in disbelief over that last piece. If the warranty starts over that could mean free batteries for life for those of us in the desert.

I wanted AGM's too but I can buy a whole lot of baking soda (and ice cream) for a couple hundred bucks. So far there has been zero corrosion with the Interstates.

NAPA AGM's are a good price and made by East Penn. I just put one in my wife's car yesterday so no long term experience yet, hopefully they'll be better than Optimas.

6 month free replacement on Costco batteries if used for commercial vehicles or diesel applications. Pro rated replacement looks meager too. I guess you can just bring them in and not tell them.