New Math

[Carle]

I have been trying to understand the different weights (GVW, GAW, GCW) that are listed with my truck. I have a 1999 2500 diesel 4X4 with a 5 speed. The truck is a Quad Cab with a long bed. I am currently towing a Forest River Sierra 5th wheel 27RLSS which is a mid height trailer with a single slide out. It is about 31 feet long. When I bought it I weighed at the truck scales and the gross weight is 16,180 lbs. The GCWR for my truck is 20,000 lbs so I am OK for maximum weight. I have been since reading all of the threads on towing weight and have become very confused. I know from the scale reading that I am at 9300 lbs on my truck. This puts me about 500 lbs over the GVWR for my truck which is 8800 lbs. What I do not understand is the GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) is 4850 lbs for the front axle and 6084 lbs for the rear axle. So by those readings I am within weight because the front axle scaled at 4420 lbs and the rear scaled at 4880 lbs. To add more confusion the tires on my truck are rated at 3240 lbs each which is different from all of the other weights. Can anyone give me some in-site as to whether I am in trouble, will damage the truck or just ignore and keep on pulling.







Thanks

 

[DPelletier]

To be legal, you can't exceed any of the ratings, neither GAWR, GVWR, tire max weight ratings, etc. You are over and technically illegal. No you won't likely damage the truck being 500 lbs over. I was about 1,000 lbs over on my last truck (2001. 5 2500) and didn't break anything, but ultimately I wanted a 3500 DRW and I feel better about being under the max GVWR.



Cheers

Dave

 

[Casey Balvert]

The problem with pulling a good sized fiver with a 2500 is that you will exceed the GVWR of the truck long before you exceed the GCWR. That is why I usually recommend a 3500 to anyone thinking of pulling a fifth wheel. And with the SRW 3500 being available now, the only need for the 2500 is a marketing thing for DC. FWIW.



Casey

 

[dberry]

I am usually over weight on all the ratings (by alot sometimes) except tires and trailer gvw, so no you won't damage your truck. But you could damage your wallet if you get caught or wreck! Most of my heavy hauling is done on rural roads, under 40 mph. I have not heard of many people hauling non-commerical being weighted, so I'm not worried but two extra tires would be nice from the safety standpoint.

 

[Carle]

I am still confused as to how the GVWR is arrived at if the axle GAWR and the tires have a higher rating than the GVWR. Is Dodge doing this because they know that the truck will be used with a larger load and have built in some leeway? Or is this the way all trucks are designed with a much larger payload than they are rated at.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Don't fall into that "the manufacturer built in some leeway" trap - ratings are ratings, and what the Hiway Patrol and insurance companies go by - and it really doesn't make the SLIGHTEST difference as to what the TIRE ratings are as far as them being rated HIGHER than axle ratings - that DOES NOT change or magically increase the vehicle GVWR in the slightest!



Even with my fully loaded 24 foot, 7,000 lb fiver, I come close to the GVWR for my truck when everything is fully topped off - hitch weight for the 5er is 1000 lbs, full in-bed fuel tank = 500+ lbs, 5er hitch = 100 lbs - bare truck weighs about 7000 lbs, and with the stuff listed above, I'm at around 8,600 lbs before passengers and driver is loaded...



And THAT is with a 24 foot, 7000 lb fifth wheel - imagine what these guy with the 12,000 lb rigs must be doing as far as GVWR on their trucks is concerned...

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

And THAT is with a 24 foot, 7000 lb fifth wheel - imagine what these guy with the 12,000 lb rigs must be doing as far as GVWR on their trucks is concerned...

We pull a 13,500 lb 36' triple slide 5th wheel and hit the road at 10,380 lbs GVW (10,500 GVWR) and 21,180 lbs GCW (21,500 lbs GCWR).



The fact that the sum of your GAWRs is higher than your GVWR merely allows you some latitude in placement of the load - more to the front or rear. Insofar as the manufacturer's position is concerned, Dodge is very clear in my owner's manual that none of the ratings (GVWR, GCWR or GAWRs) are to be exceeded in towing applications.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Well, I *tried* to adjust my truck's load by placing my in-bed fuel/tool tank, and my wife up on the front of the truck, but it looked sorta funny, and created new problems that were worse than the first one...



AND, if proper hitch weight percentages are to maintained relative to the towed load, not all that much leeway THERE either, if other problems are to be avoided...

 

[RustyJC]

Gary,



My "sum of GAWRs" comment was in response to Carle. I would NEVER suggest that you put your wife and auxiliary fuel tank on the front of the truck. In my case, that would put me over my front axle GAWR!



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Hey Rusty, what IS the hitch weight of your trailer - the "15%-20% rule of thumb" would seem to put you up against the limit as well...



And while we're at it and things are quiet, how's that CON OFE working out for you - any chatter when backing the trailer in reverse?

 

[Bartlett]

Carle, like was stated above you cannot legally exceed any of the weights. I scratch my head also at times when checking the numbers especially when not exceeding the gawr yet exceeding the gvw. Lets say there were a 500lb weight above the kingpin and you moved it over the trailer axles that would essentially put you back into legal status as long as you werent over the trailer gawr. just a general example not to be taken too seriously.

 

[RustyJC]

Gary,



I'm running 2,700 lbs (20%) on the pin and 10,800 on the axles.



The Con OFE is slightly more aggressive than the stock clutch. The DD2's are actually more of a challenge in slow maneuvering than the OFE. Because they dump more fuel than the ECM is expecting to hold idle speed, if you let out the clutch at idle, you get a "romp-romp-romp" response from the engine as the ECM overfuels (due to the bigger injectors), then chops fuel, then overfuels, then chops fuel, etc. It sounds neat - until you're trying to maneuver a 5ver into a covered storage bay or a back-in campsite.



The solution I've found is - slip the clutch. Just don't engage it all the way and let it take up the engine speed variations. The Con OFE doesn't seem to mind this at all. After all, at idle, the clutch is transmitting very little BHP, and I've never smelled hot clutch lining or sensed any difference in the clutches' response - no chatter or grabbing - but I never have to slip it more than a second or two until I'm moving fast enough to let it all the way out.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Thanks Rusty - sorta reinforces what I've heard - a price to pay for a strong and positive clutch. Even my stocker displays minor problems - actually, I suspect it's more a driveline windup/flexibility issue than clutch - but a stiffer clutch will only magnify the problem...

 

[Carle]

I guess I should have told you the rest of the story. When I purchased my new 5'er I weighed it at my friendly Flying J scales. The results are 4420 on the front axle 4880 on the rear axle and 6880 on the trailer axles. This was empty from the dealer with about a half a tank of water on the trailer. As you can see I am over the GVWR which is 8800 by 500 lbs. Everything else is great. I am going to take the unit out next weekend for its spring run and will weigh with all of our goodies onboard including the two animals. I hope I will not be to far over.