NV4500 Upgraded Replacement Transmission?

[Seabee]

Hi Guys,

I have just about reached the straw that broke the camel's back with the NV4500. After two earlier issues (one tragic) within 130K miles, I shelled out the cash for a Standard Transmission version with the fully splined mainshaft. Seemed like a good idea but.............
The "tail housing/transfercase adapter housing" cracked. I did a good on the road JB fix that held for a few thousand miles. I ordered a cast iron replacement and finally got around to installing it.
When I took the original off, I found 5th gear nut backed half way off the threads!! When I took it off, the 3 piece thrust washer was in 4 pieces. Damn lucky one of those pieces didn't fall out and get between the 5th gear set. That would have been stunning!
Of course when I called Standard, "we have never seen that happen." Do they all lie, or am I truly the only guy in the world that bad things happen to? Their response is what I have come to expect. I said okay, send me a new thrust washer assembly. Yes Sir, $19.50 + shipping! Now, we are talking 20K miles on the rebuild and a problem that "never happens." What ever happened to customer service with an apology and "we'd be glad to send you the part free of charge?" Are my expectations too high?
I am considering installing a Fuller FSO 84 series 6 speed with a divorced NP 205 when this transmission fails. I know someone who has done this and I'm quite sure the Fuller will never fail. Of course, it will involve a multitude of other mods to make it work, but I ain't scared of that.
Have any of you ever done anything like this, and if so what did you do? Just looking for opinions/experience and other options.
Thanks for your time,
Seabee

 

[GAmes]

I had a low mileage rebuild transmission fail in Oregon. Standard overnight shipped a transmission to a nearby shop and paid for the swap. I was on my way back to TX so I returned it. Had I not been coming home they would have paid the return shipping too. IIRC their warranty is for 12 months with no mileage limit.

There are several people who have installed Fuller transmissions. Google is your friend.

 

[Seabee]

I had a low mileage rebuild transmission fail in Oregon. Standard overnight shipped a transmission to a nearby shop and paid for the swap. I was on my way back to TX so I returned it. Had I not been coming home they would have paid the return shipping too. IIRC their warranty is for 12 months with no mileage limit.

There are several people who have installed Fuller transmissions. Google is your friend.

Thanks Gary.

 

[petersonj]

@Seabee, what about installing a NV5600? They are reliable and it might be an easier swap.

- John

 

[GAmes]

I'm biased but IMO a G56 swap is a much better deal.. Initial cost is about the same, spare parts are available for the G56 and it is rated for more tq and hp than the 5600.

 

[BigPapa]

I’d definitely go with the G56 before an NV5600. Maybe just the ones I’ve dealt with at the truck shop, but I’ve seen more issues with 5600’s than 4500’s.

 

[Seabee]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I was looking on Ebay tonight for Fullers, NV5600's and G56's. WOW, talk about sticker shock! With no core to turn in, I am looking at about $5K for any of them. I guess with that knowledge, the easiest swap in selection may take precedence.
I do like what I have read on the G56. I'll have to see what all else would have to be swapped/modified on my 97 4X4 to put one in.
I think the NV 5600 would be easier, but it gets some bad press too.
What I do know, is that when my NV4500 fails, another one will not be installed. At least I hopefully have some time to collect parts!

 

[BigPapa]

Personally, I would look seriously at the ZF6.

 

[petersonj]

I think the NV 5600 would be easier, but it gets some bad press too.

I am curious about what bad press are NV5600's getting. My impression is that they are a very reliable transmission. I personally have 362,000 miles on mine and it has towed up to 21,000 lbs combined weight up long 6% grades. It continues to be trouble free and I pull hard with it with a mild tune. I personally know of three people who have the NV5600, two of them are right at 200,000 miles, and other is over 250,000 miles - all with no issues.

I am fairly certain that a NV5600 would be much more reliable than the NV4500. Many other people have experienced what you have experienced with the NV4500 over and over again.

The NV5600 handles much higher input torque than the NV4500. The input torque for a NV5600 transmission in a 2004.5 Dodge Cummins is 600 lb/ft. Personally, I think installing the NV5600 would be a good move for you. I certainly would not hesitate to do it if I were in your shoes.

- John

 

[BigPapa]

Everyone’s experiences are different. I put a used NV4500 in my ‘95 when the auto went out. It had @ 150K on it. I put another 250K on it and sold it when the ‘95 got totaled. Never heard from the fellow that bought it had any trouble with it. The last 100K I put on it was at 450/830.

We had three different trucks come in the shop with 5600’s that had to be replaced due to poor bearing lubrication. Two of those were just passing through on the road towing a 5th wheel.

 

[NIsaacs]

We had three different trucks come in the shop with 5600’s that had to be replaced due to poor bearing lubrication. Two of those were just passing through on the road towing a 5th wheel.

Poor bearing lubrication is from not checking the level, running them low and poor change habits. With a 4x4, the transmission oil can transfer to the t-case and you wont see a leak.

365k miles on my '01, changed every 36k with 1 gallon, period, never overfill.

 

[BigPapa]

Poor bearing lubrication is from not checking the level, running them low and poor change habits.

Possibly, but there are lube issues with the 5600.

 

[Seabee]

Possibly, but there are lube issues with the 5600.

I have read a lot of those stories. No example personally. I read that overfilling them by 1 quart was a band-aid mod. I want to swap trannys ONE last time and be done. I only put about 5k on my truck annually, so a 100K transmission will see me to the grave!

 

[Seabee]

Well fellas, IT HAPPENED!! Dirty rotten SOB NV 4500 failed 5th gear again! Less than 1K after fixing the 5th gear nut that was backing off and putting on the new cast iron rear housing. Of course, right in the middle of Nashville in the 3rd lane over towing back from Talladega!

To update some earlier conversations, I installed a temp gauge in one of my double Fast coolers on the 5 speed. Towing in 5th never went over 205F, but towing in 4th only showed about 160F after several miles of cooling. I can't believe 205F is too much for the bearings, gears or oil, but....................

This time it was a new failure! Glory be not the normal stuff that can be easily fixed. This time it tore the end of the countershaft off at the 5th gear clutch hub splines!!!! Pictures attached. The shaft breakage looks like there was a radial finger type casting flaw in the shaft, as it left behind what looks like the ratchet gear in a motorcycle kick start set up on both faces!?

Let's keep in mind here, I have a very mildly tuned 215HP 97 12 valve towing a relatively light 8K travel trailer. I would say gross I am around 16K going down the road. I know the 4500 was only rated for 14K gross and 450 ft lns, but damn these repeated failures with such low mileage is ridiculous! Of interesting note, my truck pulled 500 ft lbs at the rear wheels when "stock" on a Cummins shop chassis dyno. Must have been a Tues/Wed/Thurs truck?!
An NV 4500 is NOT going back in this truck. I am DONE!! 4 failures in less than 150K is enough.

I have been scouring the web for wrecked trucks, trannies for sale, etc. trying to find the easiest deal to accommodate my desires. Of interest, most of the part outs on FB Marketplace seem to be scams? Whenever I mention I'd like to come see the truck and get the parts there is always a problem with doing that, or "someone is already coming tomorrow so I'll let you know." Seems odd. Guess I'll have to buy a new/rebuilt from one of our trusted suppliers, pay the core charge and modify/pickup other parts as necessary. Interestingly, most of the suppliers do not have one in stock as advertised and some won't even sell to me without a core. Am I going to have to buy a complete truck and part it?!

If any of you know of someone selling a "swap over package" of NV 5600, or preferably a G56 set up, please let me know. I'm backing off the Fuller swap since I am now "down" and don't have the time to do all of those mods with the divorced 205.

Thanks for listening to my rant. I know you all are the only ones that really understand such frustration!!

Seabee

 

[Seabee]

Oops, forgot piX!

 

[GAmes]

I feel your pain, and have, several times over. I ran a temp gauge for awhile. It was worthless as a gauge to warn of impending failure. I wouldn't bother looking for an NV5600. They really aren't that much better and replacement parts could be unobtainable. It's been quite some time now but I found my transmission on Craig's list.

 

[Seabee]

I feel your pain, and have, several times over. I ran a temp gauge for awhile. It was worthless as a gauge to warn of impending failure. I wouldn't bother looking for an NV5600. They really aren't that much better and replacement parts could be unobtainable. It's been quite some time now but I found my transmission on Craig's list.

Hi Gary! I was hoping you'd chime in and maybe have a source. I have been scouring the web and find deals all over the map regarding pricing/mileage/core/shipping/etc. I seem to be in a fog at all of the options. I'd sure like to find the right truck cheap and have all the bits and pieces to make the swap easier.

Safe travels!

 

[BigPapa]

Have you tried car-part.com?

 

[Seabee]

Have you tried car-part.com?

View attachment 133547

I have not Big Papa, but will give it a go! Thanks for the tip.

 

[Seabee]

Well, I bit the bullet and am having a new G56 being built right now(SPPrecision/Xtreme Transmission in MN). I am looking at the South Bend Clutch kit# NMU70G56. It comes with the hydraulics for the newer version truck. Will they work on my 97??
What is the best option for getting a shifter? I see a few aftermarket "short throw" adapters, but still need the stick. THey are really proud of that sh..!
I can modify the crossmember and will farm out the driveshafts.