POLL: What to do about the Drug problem?

[DaveN]

What we have now is this-



We have people who want to buy drugs (Demand). We have people who want to sell drugs and make money. (Supply). Drugs are illegal. So the people who sell drugs do it for the money. Since they are illegal, distribution is more difficult. This reduces your supply, making them more valuable. When they are more valuable, and are worth more money, dealers resort to violence to protect their turf. When the DEA confiscates a train load of coke, that reduces the supply, so the demand increases, increasing the price, and the violence that is associated with it.



I would rather have it legalized and regulated and not have the violence than to have to worry about some crack head killing my wife for $10. You don't hear about people being killed for beer money. You don't hear about people getting mugged for their smokes.



Some have mentioned that teens wouldn't be able to make it through their teen years without getting hooked. Here's a clue - look at the stats. Most of them have tried one type of drug or another. They are already illegal, and they can go to jail for it already.



We spend billions on this problem. We can do an awful lot with billions of dollars, i. e. education, health care, whatever you want to spend it on. You will still have the same percentage of the population being grade A addicts, but you won't have the violence and the killing and the fear associated with it. You can take the billions you save in enforcement and incarceration, and treat addicts and educate people about it, and still have billions left over so that people can get cheaper health care, etc.



What we are doing now is not working. I'm paying an awful lot in taxes for a program that doesn't work. Legalizing it won't eliminate addicts, but it will save me money, and make my country a SAFER place to live. I would just work harder to teach my kids how bad they are (shouldn't be too hard, everyone's family has someone who is an example of why NOT to use drugs).



My . 02

 

[TxDieselKid]

Some have mentioned that teens wouldn't be able to make it through their teen years without getting hooked. Here's a clue - look at the stats. Most of them have tried one type of drug or another. They are already illegal, and they can go to jail for it already.

That's right, most teens have tried, and they are illiegal. So you think making it legal will make less of them do it? If it is legal to do, and more readilibly to get their hands on, then more will keep doing it.

The places where they would go to /shoot up/ smoke/whatever, would leave the dead lie where they fell for 24 hours. or better yet, move them in front of the counter, so newbies have to walk around, or on top of them.

Ok, so the most teens would say, well that is the hardcore junkies, not me. Remember how you thought when you were a teen(not you personally, just teens in general). They think they can do anything and get away with it because they think they know it all. Now if you say that you have to do the drug at this place and stay for 24 hours afterwards, there will still be a demand on the streets because most teens do this stuff at parties, hangouts, heck I've even seen it done at the place I work!



Making it legal will only get rid of the hard core addicts.



Andrew

 

[Arcticat]

TDK, who said anything about teenagers being able to legally buy drugs? Teenagers can't buy prescription drugs, can't buy alchohol, and a host of other things. They are generally regarded in a legal sense as not being fit to make such decisions about their own health and well being. So in a teenagers situation, nothing would change if drugs were legalized for people above the age of ,say, 21.



No, prohibition did not eliminate demand for alchohol, nobody said it did. But alchohol use in this country went UP during prohibition and came DOWN after it was repealed. That is an undisputed fact, and one that supports my feeling that government should not be in the business of regulating "sin".

 

[NVR FNSH]

Eliminate the 'thrill' of drinking & drugs and you just eliminated a bunch of the use. Drop the drinking age to 12 in the presence of parents/adult & 16 w/o parent/adult. How many of you drink more after you 18/21st b-day than before? I drank a lot less after I became 21 because it wasn't a big deal. I believe the same philosophy will hold true for marijauna. Cocaine/meth etc I'm not so sure about.



Just an observation on this thread. There seem to be a lot of opinions that corporations that manufacture/sell alchohol are some evil empire that is out to control the world thru advertising to the weak minded. I find this opinion rather ironic coming from people on this site who are usually very much on the side of individual responsibility and self determination.



Brian

 

[Redneck Toadstomper]

LEGALIZE DRUGS??? :--)

Bull!!! I refuse to think we as a society can make our drug problem go away by making it legal and taxing it. When did the alcohol problems end after it became legal and taxing the crap out of it?? Have you noticed that fewer people are dying from the effects of tobacco since they are taxing the crap out of it too?? You just can't find anyone under 18 years smoking cigarettes since it is against the law to buy or sell them to a minor. That is until you open you look around!! The same goes with alcohol.

We will always have people that murder people. We can't stop it!! Oh my goodness, let's tax and legalize it in certain cases. Rape, same thing! Armed robbery, same thing! Burglary, same thing!

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Arcticat

TDK, who said anything about teenagers being able to legally buy drugs? Teenagers can't buy prescription drugs, can't buy alchohol, and a host of other things. They are generally regarded in a legal sense as not being fit to make such decisions about their own health and well being. So in a teenagers situation, nothing would change if drugs were legalized for people above the age of ,say, 21.

I have drank a HELL OF A LOT MORE since turning 21, no doubt. You think teens don't drink now because you have to be 21 to buy? :-laf :-laf Sure, just like teens under 18 don't smoke right? :-laf :-laf I once knew a girl who was 13 who smoked, and trust me, she was addicted.

NVR FNSH

Eliminate the 'thrill' of drinking & drugs and you just eliminated a bunch of the use.

I think a lot people truly like the highs they get from drugs, not just the "I'm not allowed to do this" thrill. I have NEVER tried any illegal drugs, or legal drugs for that matter, but MANY friends have, and they like the way they feel when on them.



Redneck Toadstomper,

Thanks for agreeing, nice to know I do have SOMEONE who thinks the same.



Andrew

 

[WadePatton]

Originally posted by DaveN



I would rather have it legalized and regulated and not have the violence than to have to worry about some crack head killing my wife for $10. You don't hear about people being killed for beer money. You don't hear about people getting mugged for their smokes.



You will still have the same percentage of the population being grade A addicts, but you won't have the violence and the killing and the fear associated with it.



What we are doing now is not working.



Legalizing it won't eliminate addicts, but it will save me money, and make my country a SAFER place to live.



My . 02

Good observations.



Ya'll ready for the deep stuff?

"grade A addicts" are a result of their brain chemistry/function. Sure there are plenty of "normal" brain function folks who CAN become addicted, but for the most part, the hardcore, can't-break-the-cycle addicts are pre-dispositioned to it--AND LAWS DON'T CHANGE THAT.



Toadstomper--whoa DUDE what are you smokin'?



And as for advertising. Bans are dumb because advertising cost money. Who pays for the extra costs? The consumer. So there goes a great way to run up the price. Make 'em all buy Super Bowl halftime ads! Another reason advertising laws are silly--there are no illicit drugs advertised anywhere--they still seem to do just fine.



OH NO! is that because there's a DEMAND rooted in human nature and we can't turn it off with laws and bans on advertising and just saying "no"?



Look at the other parts of the world. Fascinating how the South American cocaine producing villages don't have addiction problems. Read up on it. Don't believe everything Dan Blather spits out at you.

 

[Champane Flight]

What?

I don't think anyone said the drug problem would go away with legalization. What we are saying is that the war against drugs is costing billions and there is no winning it. So as a solution to the lack of funding for education, treatment and other things that this brings to society, let the drugs being purchased pay for users needs. Will legalization solve the problem? No, but it will cut down on the number of deaths by O/D, long term addiction, radom street killings, and other health problems, by controlling amount sold, readily available treatment and cleaner drugs on the market.



We can also get our heads out of the sand and face the educational factor of our nation. After seventy years of legalization of alcohol, I have seen ONE comercial for AA, ONE... What does this say? This says that the alcohol buisness and our nation care more about a continued supply of alcohol than they do about abuse of the same.



As far as banning ads, I feel it is NO solution, but also feel that it is NOT needed. Our children should not have to watch these comercials over and over again as they grow up. No matter what you say this even on the subliminal level this can take a toll. We don't need them!



Most teens know it all and are indestructable. They can and will try drugs if they want. With some of these same teens going to treatment center and seeing a buisnessman in his underwear sweating out a crack, heroin, or coke habit, they may just decide to say no. Or maybe seeing a drunk come in and watching the screaming and swearing in detox... This is real, not some cop showing pictures and preaching "just say no". Maybe sitting through a NA meeting and listening to some of the storys of other teens.



This is not a war we can win, no matter how smart, or how much money we throw at it, it is not going away.

 

[Arcticat]

Originally posted by TxDieselKid

You think teens don't drink now because you have to be 21 to buy? :-laf :-laf Sure, just like teens under 18 don't smoke right? :-laf :-laf

Well which side are you on? You say you don't want drugs legalized, but your last statement supports my point-prohibition laws DON'T WORK, no matter what the age. Once you get out of college you will appreciate what a waste of money the war on drugs and a host of other government activities are. You will see half your paycheck disappear every year for no good reason. I paid close to 15,000 in total taxes this year and will probably be over 20,000 next year. Until you write a check for that much to the government, you have no idea how much it burns me to have the DEA waste my money on foolishness like this. We have the largest and most sophisticated prison system in the world and yet murderers and rapists are walking free, paroled after serving half or a quarter of their sentence because the prisons are overcrowded with people whose "crime" inflicted no harm upon anybody but themselves. Honestly, do you really think you are better than those people in jail because your drug of choice is alchohol? Don't kid yourself thinking beer is not a drug-believe me it is. It kills more people in this country than all illegal drugs COMBINED. I have seen first hand just how lethal and dangerous it is. As far as I am concerned, TDK, YOU ARE A DRUG USER, possibly an addict (whether you know it or not) like most of the people in this country are. And as long as your drug use/abuse doesn't cause harm to me or any other innocent people, I DON"T CARE WHAT YOU DO TO YOURSELF. I'm not your father and neither should the government be.







BTW, I mean no offense by my comments to you TDK or anyone else, they are just my personal opinions on the matter.

 

[JyRO]

What a topic...

1st of all, I'm NOT for legalizing drugs.



2nd of all, when some of you say, "alcohol kills 10 times (or whatever) as many people, as all the drugs combined," to me, that is a very intellectually challenged thing to say. I said that real nice, but regardless some of you guys are going to be pi$$ed, I guess I don't care.



OF COURSE ALCOHOL KILLS 10 TIMES MORE PEOPLE! ITS 10 TIMES MORE LEGAL! AND 10 TIMES AS EASY TO GET (MORE AFFORDABLE AND AT YOUR LOCAL MARKET), 10 TIMES LESS RISKY TO GET YOU PUT IN JAIL FOR POSSESSION OF. DUHHHHH!



That's similar to saying, "You're 10 times more likely to be involved in an accident within 3 miles of your home than anywhere else. " That's because you cover those roads more than anywhere else. Duhhhh! A D/A useless statistic.



Go ahead, make drugs legal. Then the amount of people killed due to someone being high on something other than alcohol will freaking SKY-ROCKET.



And then there's the, "undisputed fact," that alcohol abuse declined after prohibition. I'll do more than dispute it, I'll use the 'ole Jthorpe or Joesoot statement of, "Bulldookie. " Who can prove it declined after prohibition? I believe that to be just propaganda, until I see/learn otherwise.



I've never tried an illegal drug. I don't buy beer. The only time I drink beer or any alcohol is when its being bought for me. Primarily because I'm too cheap for it, and it doesn't taste as good as a co-cola, to me. I don't have a problem with anyone who drinks any type of alcohol. I do have a problem those who drink and drive.



If drugs would've been legal for me when I was 21, I'd be the highest m/f you ever seen. Well maybe not. But I certainly would have tried everything out there. I'm glad I've never used. I don't want to be hooked to anything, cept the love of my family.



I plan on teaching my son(s) (wife's pregnant with little boy #2) by example. I want to show them real life examples, even if its horrible. Because someday I'll have to cut-the-cord. And when I do, I want to feel confident that they'll keep themselves clean.



I do see all you guys point about wasteing government money on the war on drugs. I don't know the answer, but I have to believe that there's a better way to fight the war, and that making drugs legal is not the best way. I'm too valuable (to my family) to put that I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER in me. And my family is too valuable to me to put that I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER in them. And WE (all of us) are too valuable to be killed off by others who are drunk or high on drugs, legal or not.



- JyRO

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Arcticat

Honestly, do you really think you are better than those people in jail because your drug of choice is alchohol? Don't kid yourself thinking beer is not a drug-believe me it is. It kills more people in this country than all illegal drugs COMBINED. I have seen first hand just how lethal and dangerous it is. As far as I am concerned, TDK, YOU ARE A DRUG USER, possibly an addict (whether you know it or not) like most of the people in this country are. And as long as your drug use/abuse doesn't cause harm to me or any other innocent people, I DON"T CARE WHAT YOU DO TO YOURSELF. I'm not your father and neither should the government be.







BTW, I mean no offense by my comments to you TDK or anyone else, they are just my personal opinions on the matter.

First off, please don't preach to me about how you, someone who has never met me, thinks I have a problem with beer. I drink beer about 2 times a month now, and usally neither time I drink more then 3 beers. That is a problem? Your right, your not my father, and I have NEVER had a father, somewhere there is some guy who got my mom pregant, but I don't even know his name, it could be you for all I know.



I do have an idea, if you want to make drugs legal, why not do it for people in jail, that way they commit a crime, goto jail, then kill themselves?



I will quit posting here before this thread gets locked, and my commits are regreted for being to personal, or anything else.



Have a nice day.



Andrew

 

[NVR FNSH]

Based on the last couple of threads I think some people are confusing legalizing drugs vs consequences of actions while on drugs.



I don't think anybody here thinks that operating heavy equipment/driving (or any other 'dangerous' activity) while under the influence of anything is okay or legal. Notice I said under the influence, not high/stoned/wasted - Nyquil messes me up so bad that I can't even sit in a chair. IF certain drugs, primarily marijauna, were to be legalized the penalities for illegal actions while under the influence would need to be significantly increased.



Brian

 

[JyRO]

My point is...

I'm sure no one here would condone the use of legalized drugs and the use of equipment, vehicles, etc together. But it would d@mn shore happen. Just like it happens all day everyday with alcohol. Just because no one here will condone it doesn't mean that, "responsible," drug using adults would not hop in the car and go down the road. You have to be pretty daized out to give it the ole, "us adults would be responsible about it," line. It would happen, and then you'd have drunks & stoned out zombies killing people on the road. Legalize drugs? He11 no.



- JyRO

 

[Arcticat]

TDK, I'm sorry if I came across as preachy. From the sound I drink about the same as you. I wasn't saying you have a problem, I'm making the point that all of us use drugs to some extent, and i don't hold myself above somebody who smokes pot instead of drink alchohol like you or I do.



Jyro, the vast majority of drug offenders in prison are people who have been caught buying, possesing or selling, not driving, killing, or robbing. My point is that if someone wants to sit home and get wasted and isn't bothering anyone, I don't care, same as if someone sits on their front porch and downs a case of beer and then falls asleep, I have no problem with that. If all these non-violent offenders weren't clogging our jails, we would have the abilty to finally get tough on people who DO go out and harm people under the influence. My feeling is if your caught driving impaired the penalties should be much stiffer. First offense suspension of liscense and a mandatory jail sentence. Second offense impound and auction the vehicle and mandatory multi-year jail sentence. Mandatory sentences for most violent crimes should be radically increased as well. I guarantee REAL crime would go down, if for no other reason than repeat offenses would not be happening - the people would still be in jail from their first offense. And think of all the REAL criminals we could catch if the cops currently wasting our money busting some hippie kids for smoking dope at a gratefull dead concert were out pounding the pavement looking for the murderers and rapists in our community.



What I'm saying is lets start really punishing people who are actually doing harm to others and stop punishing people who aren't doing harm to anybody.

 

['956Wheel]

Your money is being wasted on the "drug war'! If you cannot see that roll up another fatty and use your imagination. The drug war makes murder "a must" for the drug trafficing dirtbags. We were smart enough to know when it was time to leave Vietnam, now we must realize we are flushing money down the hopper and not even making a dent in the "cause".



Our money is better spent on educating the dopers that have a shread of hope left then trying to pretend we are progressing in cutting the supply off to that very person.



We would not be rolling over and playing dead, we would simply be making money rather than wasting it. Too many people can't see the poppy fields for the forest!



ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY>>>>MAKE IT OR LOSE IT.



Mike

 

[Champane Flight]

There here already...

The drug crazed drivers you are so scared of are here right now! Most police are not trained to dectect or find the so-called drug crazed driver. I think I would be more scared of the Valium filled carpooling Mom, than the drug crazed local junkie... ..... Most are too busy playing with there naval (I liked that) and get paranoid trying to drive.



Come on now, did someone see one to many "Refer madness" episodes? The dangers you face right now are far greater than you will ever face during leagalization.

 

[Briar Hopper]

Originally posted by Arcticat





What cop-outs? Are you denying that alchohol and tobaco are the most lethal and addictive drugs in widespread use?

Arcticat, I'm late getting back to this thread. I'd like to point out that you misunderstood what I meant by "cop-outs" .

What I meant was, the old cop-outs people often use about how alcohol and tobacco are legal, so why not legalize drugs.....

Read my words again please, I'm not in favor of legalization.

 

[JyRO]

I just don't agree...

I do agree that there is drugees out there on the road right now. But if drugs were legalized, I believe the number of traffic deaths, as a result of drug use, would exponentially increase. Cops would be looking for open containers & needles in plain view (or whatever). I cannot and will not believe that all the drug problems that we have now in society will go away or even be reduced with legalization. A person must be blowing smoke up their own a$$ to claim things would be better with legalization, and so that they can become a user and not have to feel like a criminal to do so.



Drug related murders may go down though. And that would be disadvantageous, because the death of those type of individuals is a good thing for the gene pool. The activities that some or most of those that get murdered are involved in, put large quantities of people in grave danger. I don't want those types around me or anyone that I know. They rub-off on others around them, and that's not for me. I'm not sorry if that offends, because I don't feel the least bit sorry for those individuals who get murdered in the pursuit of drug related activities. Because their drug related activities DO harm to lots of other people.



- JyRO

 

[WadePatton]

Let's don't drag traffic deaths into this.



If you could get people to pay attention to their DRIVING... that would fix that.

 

[NVR FNSH]

JyRo,

Do you see any difference between legalizing marijauna vs others - ie cocain, meth, etc?



Maybe it's a Ca thing but I just don't see the problem with marijauna. Didn't George Washington grow the stuff? Before you go off on me - I tried pot one time in high school, just didn't care for it. If pot is so terrible then explain to me why my college roommate graduated Cal Poly Mechanical Engineering with a 3. 8 GPA & his best man (I lived with him & his wife for 4 months when I moved to Santa Rosa) are doing so well? Mike sits next to me & John teaches high school math & physics. They grew up in Humboldt County so pot was easily accessible. My best friend from high school smoked quite a bit - not enough to cause any school/legal issues & he went on to play water polo at the collegiate level - now his a director of youth ministry at the church we grew up in. Yes, he attended seminary.



Based on my 'exposure' to marijuana I just don't see the harmful effects. And no, if it was legalized for the general public - not just medical marijauna in CA - I wouldn't take a toke on occassion. Like I said earlier, not my thing.



Brian