Questions on a new 3500 for those that have one...

[RSchwarzli]

Hey Guys,

Looking at changing the 2008 Mega Cab up to a newer truck. This late 2000s emissions equipment is too troublesome. So a few questions and the reasons behind them. If you have any info, please help clarify these questions. I am looking at a 2017 or 2018 3500 Mega Cab dually.

1 - MPG - What is real world MPG? My 2008 gets good fuel economy while empty. It sucks big hairy goat you know whats when towing and 90% of my miles are towing. I average 9.5 mpg running 75 mph freeway with a enclosed 26' car trailer weighing 10,500 lbs. Headwind, and I will be into the 8s. My 1990 runs 14.5 highway, and the truck use to run dpf free and get 13, so I struggle with this single digit BS.

2 - Emissions system - How is that working on the newer trucks? On this one, the system is inefficient and I find it gutless compared to my 1990. it sucks fuel, and gives nothing back. The turbo seems to soot over every few years, and the regen cycles on highway seem to be every hour and a half to two depending on terrain. Has the urea solved this now? How does the system run all said and done?

3 - Would you suggest getting a 4th gen, or waiting for a 5th gen? Why?

4 - Gas or diesel? I have considered the higher diesel prices. The mpg I get with the 2008 and I look at it and wonder if diesel still is the way to go. The extra cost to get the truck, the thirsty system, etc. Thoughts? You all know I am a diehard Cummins guy so take this question from where it is coming from!

5 - Complaints - Anything you dont like about the truck?

6 - Lastly, trans? All agree Aisin is better or a good reason to get a 68RFE?

Thanks!

Robert

 

[Deleted member 995608]

The 5th gen's won't be out until 2018 so we have no idea what Fiat/Chrysler is bringing to the board. Supposed to be a major update - sheet metal, interior et cetera. I would never buy a 1st year production truck though. Seems like there is always bugs to work out before they get it right from the assembly line.

My new truck runs really well. I'm just shy of 10K miles and only have added (1) 2.5 gallon of DEF since we bought it. Getting ready to add another 2.5 gallons soon though.

I checked my mileage last week when we traveled to Cayucos, Ca for a 6 day vacation, which is about a 3 hour drive for us. My truck at an average of 70MPH, averaged 21.3 MPG, which is similar to my old 3rd gen unloaded. I'm happy. The DEF trucks definitely get better mileage than the 2007.5 to 2012 trucks for sure.

I had one issue with my radio, but unplugging both of the batteries solved that for me. Apparently, these trucks are similar to PC's, and have to be powered cycled now in then. I'm guessing that the 5th gen's will be the same, if not even more complex electrically.

If you're ready for a new ride, I's suggest that you buy a 2016 or order a 2017 (same as 2016) and enjoy the **** out of it. This is my first auto transmission Cummins pickup and I couldn't be happier. Good luck!

 

[gsbrockman]

Hey Guys,

Looking at changing the 2008 Mega Cab up to a newer truck. This late 2000s emissions equipment is too troublesome. So a few questions and the reasons behind them. If you have any info, please help clarify these questions. I am looking at a 2017 or 2018 3500 Mega Cab dually.

1 - MPG - What is real world MPG? My 2008 gets good fuel economy while empty. It sucks big hairy goat you know whats when towing and 90% of my miles are towing. I average 9.5 mpg running 75 mph freeway with a enclosed 26' car trailer weighing 10,500 lbs. Headwind, and I will be into the 8s. My 1990 runs 14.5 highway, and the truck use to run dpf free and get 13, so I struggle with this single digit BS.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/3500/2014/gsbrockman/298756

I guess I struggle with why you're "struggling" with single digit MPG's of a stock (non-deleted) 2008 6.7L whilst towing at 75 mph.....then comparing them to two very modified other trucks

2 - Emissions system - How is that working on the newer trucks? On this one, the system is inefficient and I find it gutless compared to my 1990. it sucks fuel, and gives nothing back. The turbo seems to soot over every few years, and the regen cycles on highway seem to be every hour and a half to two depending on terrain. Has the urea solved this now? How does the system run all said and done?

I'm at 153k miles and have had ZERO issues with anything emissions related. I've had a L/R door lock actuator replaced under warranty, a water pump reimbursement under warranty, and some 11.8" / 300mm rear axle work under warranty. I previously owned a 2007.5 RAM 3500 MegaCab. The '13 and newer DEF trucks are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the 2007.5 thru 2009 trucks. Not sure how you're determining regen cycles....my 2007.5 only did one about every 300 to 350 miles or so. Lots of owners that use these trucks for commuting are not having any issues....passive regens seem to be easily accomplished and few active regens are rarely needed. The regens are so good one hardly knows when an active regen is even occurring. Last I checked, going off memory, DEF costs me about $4.65 per 1000 miles driven. The '13 and newer DEF trucks can also go up to 15,000 miles between oil changes (warranty manual stipulates 15,000 miles OR 6 months OR 500 hours...whichever occurs first). No crappy fuel dilution like what is programmed into the 2007.5 through 2012 trucks.

3 - Would you suggest getting a 4th gen, or waiting for a 5th gen? Why?

Rumor has it the new 2018's *might* be EGR free. The 4th GEN's are solid trucks. I don't think you'd be disappointed either way.

4 - Gas or diesel? I have considered the higher diesel prices. The mpg I get with the 2008 and I look at it and wonder if diesel still is the way to go. The extra cost to get the truck, the thirsty system, etc. Thoughts? You all know I am a diehard Cummins guy so take this question from where it is coming from!

What higher diesel prices....higher diesel engine option prices or higher diesel fuel prices??? What is the "thirsty system" you're referring to??

If you think single digit MPG's suck towing using a diesel......you'll reallllllly hate towing with a 6.4L HEMI. :-laf You absolutely cannot compare a 3rd GEN 6.7L to a 2013 & up DEF 4th GEN. If you want "gutless" and a V8 screaming in 2nd or 3rd gear alot on hills...get the HEMI. There's been so many guys on other forums that went to a 6.4L HEMI.....then regretted it immensely.

I just looked up my book value on the NADA site. If I click on the 5.7L V8 engine in my truck to calculate value, it's $7,500 less. My CTD engine option was $7,995. Only losing $495 on that option is STRONG resale value. Around my area.....one can barely give away a gasser truck.

5 - Complaints - Anything you dont like about the truck?

I've been extremely pleased with my '13 and '14 RAM 3500 Crew Cab Tradesman 4x4's. On long days, even in Tradesman trim, the seats feel good, a/c and heat work great, the backup camera is nice, even the base 3.0 Radio and the 5.0 Radio sounds great. No interior creaks, squeaks or rattles on my 153k mile truck. There's still a lot of maintenance that's easily performed....oil changes, fuel filter changes, differential fluid changes, transfer case fluid changes, transmission services, and cooling system services.

6 - Lastly, trans? All agree Aisin is better or a good reason to get a 68RFE?

The 68RFE is a much maligned transmission. My 2007.5 RAM 3500 MegaCab was a first year 6.7L AND first year 68RFE. I traded it off on the '13 at 114k miles.

That being said.....I really like my AS69RC. It has deeper 1st and 2nd gear ratios. Couple that with either 3.73's or 4.10's....and getting loads off to a start are a breeze. If you're going to stay stock and never delete.....I'd go with the AS69RC and spend some marginal $$$'s. If you're gonna delete, go with the 68RFE. There's trans tuning for the 68RFE; there's no trans tuning for the AS69RC.

 

[schmeg]

I just moved from an EcoDiesel to a 2016 3500 Dually CTD with G56 transmission. I have 2K miles on it so far so I can only answer your questions with limited experience. Fuel economy with the dually will be at a slight disadvantage compared to SRW. On the road unloaded Im getting 19.0 Around town and secondary roads its anywhere from 16-20. Towing my 35' 8K TT gets me 11MPG while going 72MPH. Going over 65 no doubt will dip into the fuel economy numbers hard. I would not purchase new just for increased MPG. You just won't see a big difference. HP and torque come from burning fuel. These new trucks are laying down bigger numbers. I love my G56 transmission, but if I had a choice when I pulled the trigger, I would have gone with the Aisin. The G56 has a weak clutch and Ill be faced with replacing that with a dual disk setup in the future. It is true the emissions systems work real nice. Much better than my 2015 EcoDiesel did. That was a dirty little motor. I'm regenning every 800-900 miles.

 

[Newsa]

4 - Gas or diesel? I have considered the higher diesel prices. The mpg I get with the 2008 and I look at it and wonder if diesel still is the way to go. The extra cost to get the truck, the thirsty system, etc.

Some stations have diesel a couple of pennies cheaper than reg unleaded. Or maybe just a few cents more. Diesel is the way to go especially if you tow 90% of the time. Spending $8000 on a diesel that will easily go 2 or 3 times as far as a gasser before crapping out is the way to go.

I almost wonder if the cheap prices i see on diesel are because of the VW emissions scandal. A bunch of people dumped their VW diesels and it seems it affected the price of diesel???????? Diesel prices have been amazing this past year

I don't have a 3500, so i won't chime in on the transmission question.

But the emissions system hasn't caused me any problems. Although, it has so many parts, theres bound to be a few bad ones. And some have had to have their SCR catalyst go bad quickly and replaced under warranty.

Just be real careful to keep your DEF clean and use a reliable fuel source.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

1 - MPG - What is real world MPG? solo around 19-20.4. Towing a box trailer (like a cinder block for aerodynamics and weight doesn't seem to matter much), 11 at 72-74 mph.

2 - Emissions system - How is that working on the newer trucks? Works well and is non-intrusive. Just remember to add DEF.

3 - Would you suggest getting a 4th gen, or waiting for a 5th gen? Why? 4th gen works great and I have no complaints to justify waiting like I did through the 24 valve and early 6.7 periods.

4 - Gas or diesel? I have considered the higher diesel prices. The mpg I get with the 2008 and I look at it and wonder if diesel still is the way to go. The extra cost to get the truck, the thirsty system, etc. Thoughts? You all know I am a diehard Cummins guy so take this question from where it is coming from! The diesel lasts a long time, has good pulling power. You have to rev the gasser very high to make the power and it is particularly anemic at altitude.

5 - Complaints - Anything you dont like about the truck? They ain't cheap and that environmental friendly exhaust system adds at least $5K to please the Prius owners.

6 - Lastly, trans? All agree Aisin is better or a good reason to get a 68RFE? Aisin for sure.

 

[KEnglish]

I'm about 5000mi. into an Alaska trip towing my 11,000lb 5th wheel. i've got just under 11000 miles on the truck. I just hand calculated my mileage for the trip so far at 11.8 mpg. I've used about 5 gal of DEF. That's a lot of elevation changes and an awful lot of slow down/speed up for potholes and frost heaves. I don't know if that's good, bad, or average but I'm happy. The truck is awesome and the exhaust brake is amazing.

 

[Mingoglia]

1 - MPG - What is real world MPG? solo around 19-20.4. Towing a box trailer (like a cinder block for aerodynamics and weight doesn't seem to matter much), 11 at 72-74 mph.

2 - Emissions system - How is that working on the newer trucks? Works well and is non-intrusive. Just remember to add DEF.

3 - Would you suggest getting a 4th gen, or waiting for a 5th gen? Why? 4th gen works great and I have no complaints to justify waiting like I did through the 24 valve and early 6.7 periods.

4 - Gas or diesel? I have considered the higher diesel prices. The mpg I get with the 2008 and I look at it and wonder if diesel still is the way to go. The extra cost to get the truck, the thirsty system, etc. Thoughts? You all know I am a diehard Cummins guy so take this question from where it is coming from! The diesel lasts a long time, has good pulling power. You have to rev the gasser very high to make the power and it is particularly anemic at altitude.

5 - Complaints - Anything you dont like about the truck? They ain't cheap and that environmental friendly exhaust system adds at least $5K to please the Prius owners.

6 - Lastly, trans? All agree Aisin is better or a good reason to get a 68RFE? Aisin for sure.

I also own a Prius.

 

[KenHwy61]

Robert, While you decide, you may want to try unplugging your EGR valve. I unplugged mine on my 2012 and was immediately rewarded with a 2.1 increase in mpg while pulling my 10K camper. No issues except a MIL. Very easy to do and undo.

 

[wyosteve]

Finished a 1200 mile round trip a few weeks ago. Speeds were from 75 to 82. No trailer. Hand calc. avg. was 18.2. 2 weeks ago I towed the 5th wheel (about 9k gross) 600 mmiles to Montana. Avg. was 9.7 to 11.2 depending on hills, wind, etc. Speeds were generally 70 mph. fwiw

 

[RSchwarzli]

Thanks for all the responses! These are all awesome and very helpful! To comment on a few:

The 5th gen's won't be out until 2018 so we have no idea what Fiat/Chrysler is bringing to the board. Supposed to be a major update - sheet metal, interior et cetera. I would never buy a 1st year production truck though. Seems like there is always bugs to work out before they get it right from the assembly line.

My new truck runs really well. I'm just shy of 10K miles and only have added (1) 2.5 gallon of DEF since we bought it. Getting ready to add another 2.5 gallons soon though.

I checked my mileage last week when we traveled to Cayucos, Ca for a 6 day vacation, which is about a 3 hour drive for us. My truck at an average of 70MPH, averaged 21.3 MPG, which is similar to my old 3rd gen unloaded. I'm happy. The DEF trucks definitely get better mileage than the 2007.5 to 2012 trucks for sure.

I had one issue with my radio, but unplugging both of the batteries solved that for me. Apparently, these trucks are similar to PC's, and have to be powered cycled now in then. I'm guessing that the 5th gen's will be the same, if not even more complex electrically.

If you're ready for a new ride, I's suggest that you buy a 2016 or order a 2017 (same as 2016) and enjoy the **** out of it. This is my first auto transmission Cummins pickup and I couldn't be happier. Good luck!

This is great! Thanks so much!!

I guess I struggle with why you're "struggling" with single digit MPG's of a stock (non-deleted) 2008 6.7L whilst towing at 75 mph.....then comparing them to two very modified other trucks

LOL Fair questions. The problem is in Ontario, we are like California. We are not allowed to modify the DPF trucks and we have DOT constantly pulling pickups over to inspect for emissions components. As I therefore have to have them and cant modify, I struggle with the whole thing.

I'm at 153k miles and have had ZERO issues with anything emissions related. I've had a L/R door lock actuator replaced under warranty, a water pump reimbursement under warranty, and some 11.8" / 300mm rear axle work under warranty. I previously owned a 2007.5 RAM 3500 MegaCab. The '13 and newer DEF trucks are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the 2007.5 thru 2009 trucks. Not sure how you're determining regen cycles....my 2007.5 only did one about every 300 to 350 miles or so. Lots of owners that use these trucks for commuting are not having any issues....passive regens seem to be easily accomplished and few active regens are rarely needed. The regens are so good one hardly knows when an active regen is even occurring. Last I checked, going off memory, DEF costs me about $4.65 per 1000 miles driven. The '13 and newer DEF trucks can also go up to 15,000 miles between oil changes (warranty manual stipulates 15,000 miles OR 6 months OR 500 hours...whichever occurs first). No crappy fuel dilution like what is programmed into the 2007.5 through 2012 trucks.

That is awesome! Thank you!

What higher diesel prices....higher diesel engine option prices or higher diesel fuel prices??? What is the "thirsty system" you're referring to??

Diesel is approx $1 more a gallon locally for me vs regular. We still have $5/gal diesel in this part of the country and at time, $5.50.

If you think single digit MPG's suck towing using a diesel......you'll reallllllly hate towing with a 6.4L HEMI. :-laf You absolutely cannot compare a 3rd GEN 6.7L to a 2013 & up DEF 4th GEN. If you want "gutless" and a V8 screaming in 2nd or 3rd gear alot on hills...get the HEMI. There's been so many guys on other forums that went to a 6.4L HEMI.....then regretted it immensely.

Fair enough! lol

That being said.....I really like my AS69RC. It has deeper 1st and 2nd gear ratios. Couple that with either 3.73's or 4.10's....and getting loads off to a start are a breeze. If you're going to stay stock and never delete.....I'd go with the AS69RC and spend some marginal $$$'s. If you're gonna delete, go with the 68RFE. There's trans tuning for the 68RFE; there's no trans tuning for the AS69RC.

[/QUOTE]

No tuners or anything on this truck. Will remain stock. So I will take head to the AS69RC advice. Thanks for all your time!

I just moved from an EcoDiesel to a 2016 3500 Dually CTD with G56 transmission. I have 2K miles on it so far so I can only answer your questions with limited experience. Fuel economy with the dually will be at a slight disadvantage compared to SRW. On the road unloaded Im getting 19.0 Around town and secondary roads its anywhere from 16-20. Towing my 35' 8K TT gets me 11MPG while going 72MPH. Going over 65 no doubt will dip into the fuel economy numbers hard. I would not purchase new just for increased MPG. You just won't see a big difference. HP and torque come from burning fuel. These new trucks are laying down bigger numbers. I love my G56 transmission, but if I had a choice when I pulled the trigger, I would have gone with the Aisin. The G56 has a weak clutch and Ill be faced with replacing that with a dual disk setup in the future. It is true the emissions systems work real nice. Much better than my 2015 EcoDiesel did. That was a dirty little motor. I'm regenning every 800-900 miles.

Thanks for this as well! Had been toying with G56 but I like the further confirmation of the Aisin.

1 - MPG - What is real world MPG? solo around 19-20.4. Towing a box trailer (like a cinder block for aerodynamics and weight doesn't seem to matter much), 11 at 72-74 mph.

2 - Emissions system - How is that working on the newer trucks? Works well and is non-intrusive. Just remember to add DEF.

3 - Would you suggest getting a 4th gen, or waiting for a 5th gen? Why? 4th gen works great and I have no complaints to justify waiting like I did through the 24 valve and early 6.7 periods.

4 - Gas or diesel? I have considered the higher diesel prices. The mpg I get with the 2008 and I look at it and wonder if diesel still is the way to go. The extra cost to get the truck, the thirsty system, etc. Thoughts? You all know I am a diehard Cummins guy so take this question from where it is coming from! The diesel lasts a long time, has good pulling power. You have to rev the gasser very high to make the power and it is particularly anemic at altitude.

5 - Complaints - Anything you dont like about the truck? They ain't cheap and that environmental friendly exhaust system adds at least $5K to please the Prius owners.

6 - Lastly, trans? All agree Aisin is better or a good reason to get a 68RFE? Aisin for sure.

Thanks Joe! You input is always appreciated

I'm about 5000mi. into an Alaska trip towing my 11,000lb 5th wheel. i've got just under 11000 miles on the truck. I just hand calculated my mileage for the trip so far at 11.8 mpg. I've used about 5 gal of DEF. That's a lot of elevation changes and an awful lot of slow down/speed up for potholes and frost heaves. I don't know if that's good, bad, or average but I'm happy. The truck is awesome and the exhaust brake is amazing.

Thanks! Enjoy your trip!

Robert, While you decide, you may want to try unplugging your EGR valve. I unplugged mine on my 2012 and was immediately rewarded with a 2.1 increase in mpg while pulling my 10K camper. No issues except a MIL. Very easy to do and undo.

Yeah, if I do that here, and get pulled over, thats a $1000 fine. It has become stupid here. I had started with the EGR unplug years ago, and progressed to full delete, and now back to full stock. I wish I could go back to unplugging again.

 

[2rrRAM2nv]

1 - MPG - What is real world MPG? Well, when I was commuting (145miles 1 -way), I was getting 15-17 at 75. I haven't towed anything yet, so I can't comment on that.

2 - Emissions system - How is that working on the newer trucks? working fine on mine.

3 - Would you suggest getting a 4th gen, or waiting for a 5th gen? Why? I'd get the 4th since it's been out for awhile and should have less bugs than a brand new 1st year model.

4 - Gas or diesel? depends on what you're gonna use it for. Me, in my current situation, I'd go gas since I'm not towing anything and drive 3-4miles to work. when it comes time to get our 5er, then I won't regret getting the CTD one bit. Pulling power Baby. Even the 6.4 doesn't come close to the capability of the CTD. I'd rather have MORE than enough power to get the job done, than be wishing for more and not have it. which is the thought process my wife goes by. therefore, why we have the RAM 3500 with a CTD. no worries about having "enough".

5 - Complaints - Anything you don't like about the truck? ummm, would rather not have to deal with DEF but it's the nature of the beast.

6 - Lastly, trans? All agree Aisin is better or a good reason to get a 68RFE? get the Aisin. I've got the 68RFE and I have a lil bit of worry, when we get out 5er, on whether it will survive for long... nice thing though, my wife has already authorized that IF and WHEN the 68 drops out, I get to send it out for a proper HD rebuild. WOOT!!