Rebuilt Engine Water in Oil

[Wingate]

nah. . the pitting doesn't look bad enough to worry about. . Do you know if these engines have injector sleeves?? If so, are they bronze alloy or stainless? When you pulled the exhaust manifold, there was no evidence of rust or moisture in any of the exhaust ports? Not sure about the machine shop you're using, but those that work on these engines alot will have a plate and the various adapters to pressure check the cylinder head with it on the bench with all the valves out. That will allow you to inspect for internal cracks. There is also a leak detection dye called Methelyne Blue that can be put into the coolant passages in the head that will show leaks. Ordinary water can be used, but if its a small leak like erosion, sometimes plain water wont show the leak... even under pressure.

I didnt know the truck had been sunk, i assume that you cleaned out the intercooler?

 

[Wingate]

Unfortunately the Snap-On tool is very nice but it does not fit down the injector hole. It is just slightly too large.

I was wondering if it would. I've got one on my service truck, but I use it on big Cats. Hopefully I don't ever run into a situation where I need to use it on my personal truck!!. .

 

[PaulJohnson]

That pitting would not concern me at all.

Before you send the head out why not try this. If you have access to a pressure tester carefully fill the block with water to the deck height. Reinstall the head with the old gasket and seal all the hoses. Pressure test and see if the water stays there or enters the crankcase or a cylinder. That might rule out the block, and it just takes some time. You can leave the turbo off if you can seal up the coolant lines to make it easier. As the injectors are already out just leave them out also. Also no need to torque the head, just snug the head bolts down to about 50 ft/lbs and that should be fine. If the water stays there it must be in the head and the machine shop should be able to pressure test it. Don"t forget to turn the engine over one half turn to get the pistons in a different position in case there happens to be some porosity in a cylinder.

I want to try this... ... does it matter where the water is poured? I have Radiator pressure tester. It would really ease my mind if I could rule out the block.

 

[JWadford]

What do the pistons look like

 

[PaulJohnson]

They are brand new pistons from cummins. They only ran for 15 min. Still look brand new. No one in particular looks any different from the others.

 

[PaulJohnson]

I put the head back on torque it down, filled the block with water and pressure tested it at 16 psi. It took 10 mins to leak down 2-3 psi. I think I am out of my league on this. I am going to put it all back together tomorrow and take it to the local Cummins dealer and let them diagnose the problem.

 

[RVTRKN]

Another way would be to buy an aluminum plate and drill only few strategic holes for bolting it down to the block over the cylinders with the proper size bolts and then six threaded holes over ea. cylinder for a fitting to attach a pressure gage on one side and a ball valve on the other side, and one at a time with the piston at bottom dead center pressure test ea cylinder with compressed air. You will lose some pressure but it should remain constant for ea. one. oh ya, use a head gasket to seal the cylinders under the aluminum plate. I don't know of a cheaper home made tool than that. Now that I been thinking about for awhile one small plate to cover over one cylinder would be cheaper and just move to ea. cylinder at a time. Take standard gasket paper to seal the plate. Just make sure you isolate only the cylinder.



Has this engine been in freezing weather since the flood?



Also the intercooler idea sounds like a possibilty, it could of had water trapped in a corner.

 

[PaulJohnson]

Another way would be to buy an aluminum plate and drill only few strategic holes for bolting it down to the block over the cylinders with the proper size bolts and then six threaded holes over ea. cylinder for a fitting to attach a pressure gage on one side and a ball valve on the other side, and one at a time with the piston at bottom dead center pressure test ea cylinder with compressed air. You will lose some pressure but it should remain constant for ea. one. oh ya, use a head gasket to seal the cylinders under the aluminum plate. I don't know of a cheaper home made tool than that. Now that I been thinking about for awhile one small plate to cover over one cylinder would be cheaper and just move to ea. cylinder at a time. Take standard gasket paper to seal the plate. Just make sure you isolate only the cylinder.



Has this engine been in freezing weather since the flood?



Also the intercooler idea sounds like a possibilty, it could of had water trapped in a corner.

What intercooler idea? It has been in Georgia for the last 4 years with antifreeze in it also.

 

[JWadford]

I put the head back on torque it down, filled the block with water and pressure tested it at 16 psi. It took 10 mins to leak down 2-3 psi. I think I am out of my league on this. I am going to put it all back together tomorrow and take it to the local Cummins dealer and let them diagnose the problem.

did you rotate the engine over slowly for a few revolutions while it was bleeding down to see if it would fill a cylinder and then pull the head back off, almost sounds like another hole needs sleeved

 

[Wingate]

PaulJohnson... . What I meant by the intercooler is making SURE that you pulled the intercooler out of the truck and completely flushed and dried it out. The only reason I asked it to ensure that the intercooler wasn't holding some water and got sucked into the engine when you started it up.

If you have antifreeze in the radiator (not just straight water) get under the truck and crack the oil drain plug loose. See if antifreeze comes out or just water. If its just water, theres probably nothing wrong with the engine. If its antifreeze, keep looking for the issue... .

 

[PaulJohnson]

I took the head to the machine shop today and they did a quick pressure test on the head. NO LEAKS! He is going to do a better pressure test in the morning to confirm. I am really starting to think I should have sleeved all 6 holes.

 

[RVTRKN]

I didnt know the truck had been sunk, i assume that you cleaned out the intercooler?

This was mentioned in passing, but if water was in the intercooler it would of been sucked into intake when fired.

What intercooler idea? It has been in Georgia for the last 4 years with antifreeze in it also.

I was not aware of its location, but it is fair to say water in the oil passages and then freezing could be a your problem did it ever get below freezing there?

 

[PaulJohnson]

I think I found the problem, I sleeved one cylinder but it looks I should have sleeved all of them. After pulling the head off after a pressure test I found a rust spot in the #2 cylinder that started mid way down the cylinder. I was told by the machine shop that is a sign of a crack. I guess I am going to pull the rest of the engine out and have all the cylinders sleeve. I can't see the crack but I can feel something there with my finger nail. I am getting pretty good at pulling cylinder heads and short blocks from a dodge.

 

[sag2]

I put the head back on torque it down, filled the block with water and pressure tested it at 16 psi. It took 10 mins to leak down 2-3 psi. I think I am out of my league on this. I am going to put it all back together tomorrow and take it to the local Cummins dealer and let them diagnose the problem.

My idea was to fill the block with water to the deck height then install the head. By doing that you know for a fact that the water level was not in the head, thereby ruling out the head if water entered the cylinders or crankcase when you pressurized it. If it lost pressure but no water in a cylinder or pan, then head is most likely cause. But if it lost pressure and water shows up in cylinder or pan it's got to be the block. Just trying to use logical process of elimination. It only takes time and your time is probably less expensive than the shop.

 

[sag2]

I am getting pretty good at pulling cylinder heads and short blocks from a dodge.

Trust me I've been there before. You do get pretty fast after a couple of tries though. Good luck.

 

[RVTRKN]

PaulJohnson, just be thankful it is not a GM or Ford where the engines are buried and more complicated. Cab removal comes to mind with the new Ford.

 

[PaulJohnson]

I had the head pressure tested today and it is fine. So the short block will be pulled Friday night and took to a different machine shop. Block will be pressure tested and sleeves put in accordingly. I think it is just the #2 cylinder that needs to be sleeved. I was told by the new machine shop today that " I bet the cylinder leaking is beside the cylinder that was sleeved" I said you are right..... #2 is leaking and #3 was sleeved. He said it probably was put in alittle crooked and force in by a press cracking the one next to it. I should have it back from the shop on Tuesday and hope to put it back together through the week and back in the truck Saturday. **** poor luck, but at least I know what is wrong now.

 

[RVTRKN]

Glad to hear your getting it resolved, Why not sleeve all of the cylinders? Is it a lot more money?

 

[PaulJohnson]

Glad to hear your getting it resolved, Why not sleeve all of the cylinders? Is it a lot more money?

I would like to sleeve all of them but it is 125 a hole plus the sleeve. I may do it anyways just to be safe.

 

[RVTRKN]

I guess that wouldn't be to expensive concidering your time and trouble from your experiance. I would do all six just for the piece of mind, I'm sure you don't want to go through it again. Will all of the pistons be of the same diameter/size? I wonder, because it would run slightly out of balance if there were a difference.