Competition Running Race Fuel and saying your not?

[COMP461]

When I submitted our first set of rules, NHRA tech had a list of things that were HIGHLY recommended for our rulebook and Propolene Oxide was on that list. Not sure how it would work in a diesel engine, but like DF said, I've heard it's nice in the SI engines.

Eric you only stance on Propylene oxides should be that it is forbidden









“PROP” as its called in the gas world is basically an oxygen carrier, and dose just that brings extra oxygen to the combustion process. The problem is it is rated as a cacogenic, and is in the same category in the NFPA guide books as some bad crap.

http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=75-56-9#hazards

This would be great in an over fueled situation, if you still had time to react it with the excess fuel, and make power. Most diesels over fueling are not from lack of oxygen, but lack of time to burn the excess fuel. Late injection cycle fueling contributes to this and dose not add a great deal of usable cylinder pressure, but creates the smoke and high EGT’s.



There is a reason for NHRA banning this from racing, including Top fuel, its bad stuff, the gains are so small any way for what most of diesel guys are doing its not worth the risk. Any one caught running at a NHRA track is risking not only the health risk but the wrath of NHRA on this chemical. Doesn’t mater what organization you are running under, the track is still NHRA.



Understand when all this fuel cooking was going on in side NHRA it was not for big HP gains , but very small percentage gains that were worth only 1 to 3% on a 1300 hp Pro Stock motor that is 15 to 30 hp and this on the track was the difference in qualifying first and going home UNK . NHRA now has a vigilant program in place in all performance orientated classes, that prescreens all fuel after the run, with a Dielectric meter, and then all samples are subjected to a random spectrograph analyses. You get caught and its bad news. As in a one year vacation from racing, a fine, and you name on the 3rd page of the National Dragster as a cheater.



There is so much more room in fuel development then these oxygenated compounds,. Like BTU’s per pound of fuel, and Cetane enhancers, higher Cetane helps you burn more of the excess fuel and make the power you want.



Talked to NHRA today , Propylene oxide is a part of the safety regulations , so it is also banned in any ASO meaning the DHRA also , there is no wiggle room,

 

[Diesel Freak]

Why are you worried about a carcinogen? If that is all it does, then consider yourself lucky!!!!!

 

[Dl5treez]

We had a local 360 sprint driver about die from severe chemical burns from using magic potions in his fuel. Flipped the car over & the subsequent fuel leak not only ate all the paint & powdercoat off the car, but the RR tire bubbled away like boiling tar & his fancy nomex Sparco suit dissolved like a styrofoam cup full of gas... . it was ugly. Real ugly... .



But then in every group there's always the guys who like to stick balls of mercury under their tongues as breath mints & wash their hands & face with sulfuric acid for the exfoliating benefits... . just ask 'em.

 

[Diesel Freak]

H2SO4 !!!! Near and Dear to my heart... ... especially the 96% stuff!!! Eats through acid gear in no time. and if you get it on ya... . if you don't get it off in time, it first de-hydrates the area, and with the water from your exposed skin, it ionizes and pH drops like a rock... and it eats your skin!!!!

 

[SpicyJam]

Somebody asked about the price of JP-4 or 8?, Northwest is paying a 1. 65 for it and that is up from last years price of . 87 cents... ... ..... so go figure.

 

[LPreston]

H2SO4 !!!! Near and Dear to my heart... ... especially the 96% stuff!!! Eats through acid gear in no time. and if you get it on ya... . if you don't get it off in time, it first de-hydrates the area, and with the water from your exposed skin, it ionizes and pH drops like a rock... and it eats your skin!!!!

I'll stick with #2.

 

[Green Machine]

I got a few gallons of JP-8 going to try mixing it with 50/50 #2

 

[Hohn]

A few things I can add are that JP-5 and JP-8's flash temps are different, I do remember that JP-5 is like 140-150 and JP-8 is like 130..... correct me if I'm wrong here, what I do remember si being the Gulf on a Carrier (Ranger and Connie) and when the ACFT took on fuel from the Airforce tankers it was JP-8 and that was an issue because it dropped the flash temp of the fuel on the ship when you did a de-fuel, sometimes you would have to de-fuel over the side..... yea I know, but if the ships fuel is too low it's a huge fire hazard.



I do know that JP doesn't have the lubrication qualities that #2 has, the fuel controls on a Jet engine don't require the lubrication that a fuel pump on a truck does, there is just not that many moving parts.



Jim



(Jet Engine Mechanic, Flight Engineer)

Correct, Jim. JP-8 is NOT as safe as JP-5. JP-5 was specifically developed for the Navy for A/C carrier fire safety.



JP-8 flashes at 38°C (100. 4F)

JP-5 flashes at 60°C (140 F )





You can actually drop a match in a bucket of JP-5 and the match will go out, just like it would in water.







For more fuel specs, see:http://www.chevron.com/products/pro...ionfuel/3_at_fuel_specsandtest.shtm#figure3_1





Justin



(Former USAF Fuels Systems Repairman, C-130s and B-1B bombers)

 

[Hohn]

H2SO4 !!!! Near and Dear to my heart... ... especially the 96% stuff!!! Eats through acid gear in no time. and if you get it on ya... . if you don't get it off in time, it first de-hydrates the area, and with the water from your exposed skin, it ionizes and pH drops like a rock... and it eats your skin!!!!

You know there was once a TRUE crime case where a guy committed murder by placing someone into a tub of sulfuric acid?? He killed his old mother to inherit her money.



The only thing they found of her were her acrylic dentures!! Acid ate everything else.



So, where were my dry-cell batteries again ??

 

[Green Machine]

Just kidden on the 50/50 mix. I would never run anything funny in my truck untill its at least payed off

 

[soslow91]

5 BIO DIESEL has 12 % more BTU then # 2 and should be the best bet for racing or pulling , this fuel has a very low sulfur content , and is hard on race pumps with out the proper lubrication package . this fuel is the future of Americas energy needs , being total renewable , and less of a pollutant .

Bio Diesel btu content, lubricity, and cetane # will vary based on the source oil and whether it was made with ethanol or methanol. If it has more btu it is probably thicker and harder to push through the same size injector. Used as a neat fuel (100%) it will have higher particulate emmissions than #2 but when blended up to about 10% bd and 90% #2 it decreases emmissions because it is an oxygenated fuel. In Europe its added for this reason and because it has better lubrication properties than low sulfer #2.





Most homebrew biodiesel is made with methanol because if ethanol it used it must be completely dry (free of water) and methanol is also a little easier to use even after you get all the water out of your ethanol so there is still some petrolium reliance.

 

[BigEasy]

save yourself the $$$, JP8 is simply a better-filtered K1 Kerosene with anti-icing and algacide additives

 

[Cooker]

5 BIO DIESEL has 12 % more BTU then # 2 and should be the best bet for racing or pulling , this fuel has a very low sulfur content , and is hard on race pumps with out the proper lubrication package .

I too missed this misinformation the first time around. I would like to add a couple additional comments to soslow91's post.



First of all, sulfur does not lubricate. It is the process that removes the sulfur that decreases the fuels lubricity and not the acutal sulfur itself. Bio is naturally low in sulfur as compared to fossil fuels.



Bio has immensely better lubricity that petroleum diesel without any additional "lubrication package"



Everything that I have read about commercially available Bio is that it has less BTU's and a higher Cetane that petroleum diesel.

 

[soslow91]

I too missed this misinformation the first time around. I would like to add a couple additional comments to soslow91's post.



First of all, sulfur does not lubricate. It is the process that removes the sulfur that decreases the fuels lubricity and not the acutal sulfur itself. Bio is naturally low in sulfur as compared to fossil fuels.



Bio has immensely better lubricity that petroleum diesel without any additional "lubrication package"



Everything that I have read about commercially available Bio is that it has less BTU's and a higher Cetane that petroleum diesel.

Sorry if that wasn't clear I didn't mean to imply sulfer is a lube just that low sulfer #2 without any addatives is much harder on pumps than the old stuff.



As for the cetane # commercial bio is higher because they only use certain kinds of veg oil for their base a few would give #s to low to use and some would be even better than whats commercially available.

 

[Cooker]

Sorry if that wasn't clear I didn't mean to imply sulfer is a lube just that low sulfer #2 without any addatives is much harder on pumps than the old stuff.

Sorry, I was not directing those comments towards you but to the original quote, I apologize that it read that way.

 

[BHaner]

You guys gotta try the new latest and greatest thing in diesel performance!!!





Tiki torch oil!!!!!

 

[Timbeaux38]

Tiki Torch oil is sooooo 5 days ago... ... Now the hot thing among top dragracers and pullers is Vanilla-Bean scented massage oil in the tank... ... Good for 47. 5 HP when coupled with the correct stack/sticker combo... :-laf