2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission STEERING WHEEL 'CLUNK': Column or Suspension ? : Please Comment...

[DBazley]

Gentlemen:



I'm curious to take a poll of sorts. A huge complaint area for our Rams (4bys, mainly) is "poping, clicking and clunking" noises from the front end.



Most posts pinpoint suspension issues as the culprit, but a few isolated ones have said it is actually a steering column issue ; this post is part of my attempt to research which it could be.



I know from your posts, if your truck is making such funny sounds, you've spent plenty of $$$ chasing down the problem - sometimes with no resolution - maybe the wandering problem is gone, but the irritating noise remains. :{ (that would be me !)



I'm wondering how many of you have spent $$$ and great effort, only to have this 'click, clunk or pop' remain unresolved ? Oo.



Please give some year and any specifics relevant to your situation ... .



Thanks for your input, David B

 

[wildmanben]

sounds like you need a borgeson steering shaft...

 

[Jong]

Not steering shaft related- this is regarding the plastic column support near the firewall in the steering column. I don't think the one on my '01 is bad, but I know the one on my old 2000 Ram 2500 V10 was. My old service manager told me there was a TSB on it regarding a squeaking or clunking noise emitted from under the cowl when it wears significantly or breaks. I've heard it's a ***** to get to and I don't know if you can just replace the column support on its own. The steering on that V10 was tight as a drum, even with a 5" lift, but you used to get the most horrid squeaking noise over rough roads.

 

[DBazley]

back to you....

sounds like you need a borgeson steering shaft...

Ben, thanks for the suggestion. Already have it ! Matter of fact, let me list what I have:



Borgeson steering shaft

New Control Arms (part of 2" Rancho lift)

Rebuilt Track bar w/ Luke's link

New Rancho 9000 Shocks

Darin's Steering Support bracket w/ lower bearing

Poly Anti-Sway bar bushings



I think that's it... . all is tight, but said noise is still heard, louder than ever.



Jong, your post sheds more light - let me check TSB's for your 2000 Ram V-10 truck to see if a TSB existed for that problem in that year - it might hold the key to our dillemma.



Did you fix it on your truck ? If so, how ?



Love to hear others weigh in ... ...

 

[DBazley]

Question for Jong, please....

Not steering shaft related- this is regarding the plastic column support near the firewall in the steering column..... I know the one on my old 2000 Ram 2500 V10 was. My old service manager told me there was a TSB on it regarding a squeaking or clunking noise emitted from under the cowl when it wears significantly or breaks. I've heard it's a ***** to get to and I don't know if you can just replace the column support on its own... ...

Jong, I just located this TSB, perhaps it is the one your service manager referred to, though it is listed for 1995 and some later trucks. It specifies total column replacement - though it doesn't specify exactly what in the column is broken.



Two other members here, HEMI and SMorneau, have posted that they disassembled the column and replaced the defective / broken bushing with a fabbed up part. (I'm willing to try that myself once I get more input - if successful I'll try to publish a step by step w/ pics. )



Others have stated that they had their column replaced under warranty, multiple times. I checked cost today at our local 'stealership' - column is now $ 652. 00 - It's anyones guess if Dodge has even improved the column now so it doesn't break repeatedly !



Anyhow, here is the TSB that might be this exact issue, it's description of symptoms does fit:



Symptoms:



Rattle or clunk felt in steering column while driving on bumpy or rough road surfaces, or while making a turn.



http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1995/19-02-95b.htm



Did you ever fix the problem on your truck, or just live with it ? Thanks !



DB

 

[Kalaehina]

I have/had so many different sounds coming from the front. Clicking, clunking, thumping, snapping. Snapping was the worst and I fixed that, clicking is coming from the lukes link, clunking from the worn axle arm bushings, and thumping, I really don't know where the heck it's coming from but it's done that for 6 years, so I just live with it. I did have an unusual thump and it came through the steering wheel, ended up being a broken hub bearing, thing split in two and drove around with it totally dumb move, the axle nut was stripping the shaft. Accident waiting to happen.

 

[Jong]

On my V10 I just lived with it... the part in question is supposedly a cone- shaped bushing at the bottom of the steering column that wears or cracks over time, as supposedly there is a good amount of thrust force applied to it when turning a steering wheel over rough ground. And as we all know, plastics are not the best material when put into use in a manner such as this (but they are low cost, right, DC bean counters???). It shouldn't take much for someone to fab up a better bushing out of something stronger... I'm thinking brass, as it's tough, corrosion-resistant, and self-lubricating. It'll just be a PITA to install, as you have to remove the entire steering column to get it out. But if you've checked all your front-end links (especially track bars and sway links) and they are tight, this is most probably the guilty subject. Funny, my old truck used to sound like a unbalanced washing machine under the cowl when I was going down a rough road, which is most of them up here... :-laf

 

[LandShark]

The clicks, clunks, in my truck (when making a hard turn) turned out to be the front outer U-joints. This condition started when the truck a couple of months old and wasn't properly diagnosed until the truck was just out of warranty! The u-joints looked like they were never greased from the factory. The dealer wouldn't help me recover any of the repair cost even though I had documentation that they had worked on the problem several times without success.

 

[DBazley]

"Clunk" driving us to a solution....

Thanks for the responses !



From all the earlier posts I researched, very few of the guys describing this problem (at least as reflected in the thread) ever got the problem resolved. No doubt many of the front end parts can wear & become loose, but when fixed the problem is resolved.



What is unacceptable is to replace every single front end wear item at great cost, and still have the noise issue driving you crazy - due to the fact that this 'steering column failed lower bushing' issue is not usually suspected.



If so, it's probably because Dodge issued this 'defective steering column' as a TSB in 94-95, then rescinded it, but continued to make the defective columns up 'til at least the 2000 model year - at least this is what I suspect.



More input from you all can help 'fill in the picture'.



One other factor perhaps, is that there was a TSB issued with the same symptoms, but claiming it was the 'intemmediate shaft', the shaft we replace when we install a Boregson or Flaming River steering shaft.



Maybe a defective stock shaft did cause some issues, but plenty of guys - as I discovered in my research of posts here - have replaced this stock 'intermediate steering shaft', yet are still plagued by this 'clicking, clunking or popping' through the steering wheel.



It was obviously easier to locate that easy to see part as the source of the noise, rather than the "hidden from view, difficult to get to" primary steering column lower bushing.



Call me naive or dumb, but why didn't Chrylser call their supplier and get them to do a 'within parameters' re-design once the problem was discovered ? Can you imagine the Japanese manufacturers putting up with such a flaw once discovered ?



Once upon a time, I worked at a 'stealership' - my guess is they don't mind hiddlen endemic problems that drive vehicles back to the dealer for service.



Ergo, what we do here is so vital ! Solutions ? ... .



You're right, perhaps someone can manufacture a replacement. When I disassemble mine, I'll talk to my father in law - he's got a mini machine shop and could do it, then maybe offer them to TDR guys to help get this addressed.



Jong, you think brass would be best ? Wouldn't that transmit more noise than plastic / delrin ? Delrin is what the two other members, HEMI DART & SMorneau said they used - they talked about drilling a hole for the shaft to penetrate, then roughing the OD to the right size, then driving it into the hole - don't know if they meant the 'outer column' - that piece that looks like a circular slotted cage, or into the toe plate - through which the column pentrates the firewall.



I intend to tackle this next week... . once I fix the oil seal on the wife's van..... :-laf

 

[Jong]

If delrin is working for these other guys, then try it. The reason I said brass is that it would basically make the lower end of the column bulletproof. If I ever have to do this fix, I would want to make sure I would never have to do it again. I've disassembled an older GM column before, and that didn't have an airbag, clockspring, or anything else major and was a nightmare. I'm a big fan of the "fix it once, fix it right" club... Oo.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

OK, TDR member SMorneau did the homeade fix to the column bearing. Here is the original thread Post #10. I wil PM him to see if he's still around to shed some light on the problem.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...=70173&highlight=This+drove+me+nuts+for+years

 

[DBazley]

Hey HEMI:



Thanks for the research. I think this pinpoints it for me, the post # 10 by SMorneau has the key issue - the elusive lower steering column plastic bearing !



Fixing it very, very soon. I got your PM too, thanks !



DB

 

[JessePayne]

when you do the repair can you take pics. Thanks

 

[DBazley]

Yeah, I plan to. I was just speaking with a friend who runs a foundry & machine shop about making a few bushings when I do it - maybe we could offer them here if successful.



Getting the material right is the key, so it's breakproof. Delrin or a zinc alloy have been discussed - it's academic until we take mine apart to see what we can see.....



More to follow... . David B.

 

[SMorneau]

I think I said pretty much everything in my old post. The homemade delrin bushing seems to still be working. I have traded a few PMs with David and it looks like he is about to arrive at a more elegant fix. I think you will be sickened when you see just how little went into the factory bearing. Making one break proof would have been so easy for them. FYI I used a brown delrin which is very expensive stuff. If you had machining capability you could probably come up with something much better that would not require the expensive delrin.



Scott

 

[JessePayne]

definately interested in a bushing to fix the problem. I wonder if the bushing size is any different on my 01.

 

[DBazley]

Oh where o where is this column bushing.....

Well, its out ! It's difficult to describe just how weird it is to look in the truck cab and the steering wheel is..... gone.



Ok thieves, just try to steal my truck now !



This is an open comment hopefully to the two guys here that have actually done this: HEMI - DART and SMorneau, or anyone else who know:



I have the column out (pics below) and can see the whole assembly - forgive me if I'm missing the obvious, but how do I proceed from here to locate said 'broken bushing' ? It must be contained within the shell of the column - how does one disassemble w/o destroying the lower column ?



Many thanks, DB

 

[SMorneau]

Pull off what I'll the biting clench washer and pull the spring off. The bearing as I recall sits in the base and it uses a split ring as kind of a taper bearing like setup. What looks to be a heavy piece of hardware pressed in the metal tube (shown on the bottom of your picture below the spring) is, if memory serves me correctly, a cheap little cup that is pressed or fitted in the bottom of the shaft. I actually wasn't going to take mine apart but I knew I cracked it inside when I got a little aggressive preloading the spring when reversing and aborting the mission at that point I was committed to take it out. I don't really remember how it came out but there was nothing but a tube and a shaft after they got it out. Before that afternoon I wasn't sure if the spring was a spring or a formed thread.



You might have to destroy it to get it out.

 

[DBazley]

More column bushing ideas....thanks David

Thanks Scott !



Can I ask did you re-use the spring and in the same position once you fabbed your bushing piece ?



It would seem like the spring is a pretty important piece, but I can't exactly figure out what it's function is - guessing it might be to stabilize the lower end of the innner shaft.



If so getting the clearances correct might be pretty important - I hope that 'biting clench washer' is available at an industrial supply house ( or ace hardware ?).



I'm hoping I don't make things worse by 'fixing it badly' !



Another item: I checked my Borgeson shaft - the sliding joint was completely locked up ! I suspect this is a contributing factor.



The joint has always been tight, but now immovable. I cleaned it totally, greased it good, and it still required a good deal of force to move. Not good, likely to transmit force, thus causing this lower column bushing to wear out. Do you agree on this theory ?



Can you comment on if the OEM shaft pretty much 'glides' easily compared to the Borgeson's tightness ? If so, I'll get an OEM one on the way tomorrow !



Many thanks to you Scott and all others who are adding input...



David B.

 

[DBazley]

The coolest thing just happened....

Wow Scott - 'SMorneau' You'll never guess what a forum search turned up - you gave a very succinct description 5 years ago on a thread about 'steering shafts' of EXACTLY what you did, so it pretty much answers my questions above. I'll give the link & paste your comment, then I'm gonna go get serious with my column - the sun is not gonna rise on that cheesy, cheap piece of Dodge junk !

(I wonder if ANGER = GOOD RESULTS ??) just having fun...



Thread: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17915



Your post:



Vaughn , I had an annoying clunk in my lower steering. I chased to for a long time and spent too much money on trying to fix it. For some reason I would get clunking in the lower end of the steering column where the shaft exit through the center of a preload spring. Turning the spring would sometimes make it stop for a month or more. Before spending $300 on a new column I took it apart to look at it.



I found a very cheap plastic cup set into the end of the rolled sheet metal tube. I forget the exact configuration but the cup received a split collar that is tapered to take out play. The spring, mentioned above, preloads that collar. The spring on mine was plenty tight but I thought I would go ahead and load it some more. Thats when I either A) broke the plastic cup, or B) found out that the cup was broken already. I going with B!



Anyway, at this point I had to do something so, so using a block of Delrin plastic that I had got off the scrap pile for such an occasion. I drilled with a Forstner bit a 1" hole for the shaft to slide into and then used a sander to round the outside corners off of the block so it would fit into the end of the rolled sheet metal tube. Actually, I made it fit with a hammer. I then used some of the original components (spring, press on retainer, and a part that resembled a washer) to reinstall the spring putting a preload onto the shaft. Of course there is no bearing to preload in the base but I figured it would probably keep something from rattling. I don't know how long it will last but it is still working fine after about 7K miles. No clunks... its great.



OK now it's time to get to work..... thanks David B. Oo.