2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Steering Wheel Clunk / Rattle : Solved With Column Bushing Fix !

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Thanks Tim, I'll give it a try. Vaughn

 

[DBazley]

Hi guys, I'm on vacation in Texas just now. Thanks for posting your experiences.



Vaughn, do you want to try the method Tim mentioned about hand sanding the ID of the hole to 'loosen up' the fit a bit ? It may just work - as it did for Tim, and I can't be very timely on getting you another for a couple a weeks anyhow.



On removing the bushing, you can drill a small hole in the 'meat' of it, thread in a small diameter drywall screw, and using a needle nose pliers or such, tap lightly in a downward direction, to remove it from the column housing.....



Shouldn't be too hard. Don't put on the retainer until you're happy with the fit.



Glad you discovered the 'stuck Borgeson' - it seems to cause other problems (clunking, & excessive steering box & column wear) when that happens.



Whatever you do, don't put it back on until you get it to glide smoothly in & out. I'm no steering box expert by any means, but I don't think your box input shaft moving up & down like that is a good sign. Hopefully it can be tightened back up - I think there is a TSB on that that may apply.



My solution (sorry to sound like a broken record... ) was to get a new OEM Dodge intermediate steering shaft, which doesn't have overly tight clearances that lead to it getting stuck.



thanks, let us know how things work out !



David B.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Thanks for getting back David. I'm pretty sure I can pull it and sand the ID to loosen it up a little. I've been driving the truck alot in town and it is getting quite a bit better, so maybe after awhile it'll be fine even if I don't touch it.



The Borgeson has definitely seen better days, I may go ahead and replace it. The steering box worries me, I'd hate to have to replace it since it seems pretty tight, but I have no idea how many miles are on it (looks like a lot). At 396k I doubt it's the original.



Vaughn

 

[ProspectorTim]

Though I sanded mine inside and out, most of the work was on the outside. I just did a little bit of touch-up on the inside of the bushing so it would slide smoothly onto the steering shaft. The real binding that causes problems is when the outter diameter is too tight of a fit into the tube that is the lower half of the shifter.

 

[DBazley]

Very good Vaughn - please let us know if you get the ID loosened up a bit, or if it 'wears in' on it's own. (I'd bet it will... . )



Regards,



David B.

 

[KDoerr]

well I did the fix and it is like new I did it to three trucks and it works good thanks to all for the help

Keith

 

[Double J]

I just put mine in this evening and immediately noticed my clunk was gone once I shifted into second (I could feel the clunk on my harsh 1-2 shift) I had bad wonder too so I tightened up the steering gear input while I was at it. All in all, I can honestly say I've never felt it handle any better, for the first time I forgot that I wasn't fighting the wheel. Maybe from now on I won't get a headache from concentraing on keeping her straight.



My Borgeson was stiff but not "froze" like some have been saying. I worked in some grease and it feels alittle better... alot better than it looks. What's the deal with all the rust Borgeson!!!

 

[Sikos]

Installed the new bushing last week, finally got to drive truck this weekend. Steering feels nice & tight. Drove about 40 miles with no clunks.

Good fix David.

Joe

 

[RDHamill]

Installed mine this weekend, job was much easier than I had thought it was going to be. Managed to do it on the truck without much trouble.

Used a long chisel to split the retaining ring, then removed the rest. One hit with the chisel and the steel bushing came out with a pull with pliers.

Install went well, pressed it bushing hand tight,then used plastic driving tool, and with the help of a broom handle aligned from below the truck, along the steering shaft, a couple of hits and it was in.

Hardest part of he job was getting the intermediate shaft off, :{ the slip joint just didn't want to slip. Now it's free and greased.

Truck drives great, only very slightly harder steering, still returns to center after a turn , no clunk, rattles . truck is tighter than ever.

Truck is just shy of 300,000 miles, and the front end is better than new.

Changed axle ujoints and installed power slot rotors this weekend as well.



highly recommend this upgrade

 

[Willys]

I ordered two kits- one auto and one manual for my brother's truck. I put mine in this afternoon without a hitch- 1. 5 hrs tops from start to finish, and that was with a lot of interruptions for various things, and the learning experience. I also did it on the truck, and had to unhook all my OBA compressor lines and such to get access. So, if you don't have four wheel ABS you should be able to do it on the truck as long as your steering shaft is not frozen... which brings me to my brother's truck.



His shaft is frozen solid. We had to pull the column out, with the shaft still attached since the end had been buggered up at some point and would not come loose. The telescoping shaft is frozen solid even though we've jammed it in the vice and beat the mess out of it a number of times, while dousing in liquid wrench and using a mapp torch to loosen it up. No luck. :{



Anyone have any suggestions on getting it apart? He's leaving on a camping trip tomorrow and has to have it back together asap. We'll stay up all night if we have to in order to get this thing working...



DBazley, thanks for making a great product! I test drove my truck for a few miles and it's amazing how much tighter it feels. I can achieve speeds on my gravel drive that I've been scared to do in a few years from all the clunking and play in the shaft while hitting all the potholes. I highly recommend anyone holding out on this upgrade to go ahead and get it! Oo.

 

[DBazley]

Back to you Willys ideas for your bro's truck....

Hi Willys:



Good to hear of your successful install of our steering kit - nice isn't it ? ! Thanks for taking the time to post the report.



Now, on your brother's truck, we're talking his 'intermediate shaft is stuck - frozen', right.



(this is the shaft that telescopes -normally- and connects the lower end of the steering column to the steering box, right ?)



Is it an OEM Dodge shaft or Borgeson ? I'm sure they both can get frozen, it really doesn't matter.



My Borgeson got 'stuck-frozen' due to grit that entered the sliding joint after the boot deteriorated when it was 2 years old.



My solution was to go to Dodge and get a new OEM one. I did it because:



1) It is imperative that the shaft glide smoothly - otherwise the cab - to which the steering column is attached, and the frame, to which the steering box is attached, cannot flex in realtion to each other. The frozen shaft is now binding and putting tremendous force on both the steering box & steering column, with every pothole & road shock - BAD NEWS !



I even think that using any overly stiff shaft, ie one that is frozen from grit & non-lubrication, may be a primary cause of our steering column clunking / wear.



2) I couldn't get the Borgeson shaft unstuck to save my life - vise, lube - nothing. And I couldn't wait to obtain another Borgeson - bingo both Dodge dealers I checked had em in stock.



3) The OEM Dodge shaft looked plenty strong, was $ 155 vs $ 250 for the Borgeson - plus it glided very smoothly. The rotational play was very minimal maybe 1-2 degrees - which is actually good as it would be somewhat tolerant of grit and less likely to 'freeze up' compared to the overly tight Borgeson shaft was.



So, my impression is this one time where Dodge parts is your best bet, especially given short notice.



PS: Never did 'unstick' the Borgeson - a TDR guy bought it for $ 100 and he was gonna mess with it - try to disassemble it and install a zirk -grease fitting so it would work again. Maybe you've fixed his by now -



Best Regards,



David Bazley

www.RockSolidRamTruckSteering.com

 

[Willys]

Hey David, thanks for getting back to me.



Yes that is the intermediate shaft, as far as I can tell a stock Dodge part. It was frozen when he bought it a few years ago, the boot was good, but not ziptied down, so I think water caused it to rust inside. There is no rust on the outside though. He had tried to take it off once before, and noticed that the intermediate shaft was not fitting on the end of the steering column correctly and wobbled quite a bit since the coupler had 'wallowed out' some. The upper u-joint has a lot of wear as well. I'll bet the stiff shaft is what caused the column bearing to go bad to begin with, as well as the u-joint. We never did get the shaft to slide, and since he had to have the truck, we reinstalled it. I think he'll pick one(a Dodge I-shaft) up this week after his trip(300-400 miles?) Hopefully it won't damage anything in that time. We will have to remove the steering column again to do it, but it's much easier than I thought. I was nervous about the air bag going off though.



My intermediate shaft was free and had no problems. I actually expected my truck, being an auto, to have more problems but had none. I installed the bushing while the column was on the truck, which wasn't too bad since I don't have huge hands. It's far easier than changing the fuel lines behind the engine. It helps to have a small mirror and a bright flashlight. I used a small strip of wood to block the shift lever against the firewall- its right at 3/4" thickness, 1" wide, 3" long. Any piece of wood 3/4" thick and within a few inches of the other dimensions will fit well. A dental pick would have been handy for pulling that crappy bearing retainers out- though I only had a flat bladed screwdriver. The stock plastic bearing cup on mine fit somewhat tight- and I thought I could pull it out with visegrips- wrong. I slid a thin screwdriver between the cup and the end of the column housing(screwdriver being perpendicular to the housing) and pried it out.



When tapping in the bearing, on my '96 it was a tight fit with a hammer- I only had about 2-3" between the end of the pvc pipe tool from the kit and the brake lines. It would be very difficult to hit it very hard in that tight space. I actually had a harder time getting the bushing retainer on than the bushing, and even that is not difficult. I had originally planned to install a zerk on the bushing but after looking at it apart, do not really think it needs it. I did apply a liberal amount of synthetic grease.



I wonder if on the intermediate shaft, occasionally lifting the boot and spraying it full of lithium grease would be a good idea? We thought about drilling a hole in the lower shaft past where the upper one slides in, tapping and installing a fitting, and using a grease gun to press it apart. We didn't have a tap handy last night though... and ultimately the shaft needs replacement soon regardless.



My brother's truck had a lot of play and a persistent clunk before. Now, with the new bushing tightly installed, the steering is tight(vertically) with no clunk and has a little resistance(which I'm sure will go away after a little driving) and vague feeling side to side. I'm positive this vagueness is from the worn u-joint and upper I-shaft coupling to the steering column shaft. We can't wait to get his new I-shaft on and do some caster adjustments and see how these trucks drive.



We're both very happy with the improvements that the bushing has made, and thanks again David for a quality product.



Andy

(hope this long post helps someone when they do the same fix )

 

[DBazley]

Andy,

Thanks for the details - it sounds like you got a good thing going there - you did the job just right it sure sounds.



I can imagine your brothers truck - it's a manual, I recall, will really shine when he changes that highly worn intermediate shaft - which has got to be giving a good amount of 'OVAL' motion instead of straight, in terms of the steering shaft 'vector' - what with the bad u-joint.



He will probably be OK on a modest drive, but it's really really important to get a new one ASAP.



I'd stop at ANY Dodge dealer handy immediately, pretty easy 'parking lot repair' - it's a scary thought at what might happen, accident wise, if say the upper u-joint or sliding joint were to come completely apart while driving.



Can you say, instant loss of control ? I'm sure he will replace it soon, but our propensity to use things till they break can sometimes be more dangerous than others.



'nuff said - drive safe and God bless ya both,



David B.

 

[Willys]

David, I don't think it's going to come apart any time soon- but the amount of slop is pretty amazing. I still can't believe he's driving it like that- and he spends more time tinkering on his truck than I do(I think the idea of pulling the steering column was intimidating- but it turned out to be very simple and fast). I'll be sure we get a new one on asap though. I know the I-shaft won't come off the steering column shaft because when we pulled it, the threads had marked into the column shaft hard enough that they wouldn't separate without a little 'persuasion'. It's not an easy slip on/off thing. The u-joint is sloppy, but it's not bad enough to let go. I'd be more afraid of if he hit someone, that the shaft wouldn't collapse in an accident. I've seen the pictures of the fellow on here who hit a semi head on and its downright amazing.



I understand your point about using things till they break, and I do that sometimes. But, I think one of the reasons I haven't been able to justify a bombing budget(trans/gauges/plate, etc) is all the time and money I've spent making sure my brakes and steering are well maintained. I think stopping and steering control are a little higher up the list than going fast. :-laf



I'll try and get an update when he gets a new intermediate shaft in- so long as he's not out playing in it long enough for me to test drive it. Oo. :-laf



Andy

 

[DBazley]

Andy,



Good deal !



Hey I tried to find the post or pics of the guy you mention who hit a semi head on - can't find it - do you have the link to the post ?



Thanks,



David B.

 

[RDHamill]

Well I've put on 1000 miles since my last post, the truck is much better than it was. Clunk and noise are gone, much smoother.

I feel that with the slip joint working properly and the bushing replaced there's less NVh transfered into the cab than with a frozen slip joint and a lose joint.

I'm begining to think that the slip joint being seized is the root cause of alot of the problem, keeping it free and slipping will remain a priority for me form now on. I can see a grease fitting being installed very soon.



good luck guys

 

[JessePayne]

is it really necessary to remove the old plastic bushing before installing the new one. It doesnt seem as if it would affect anything also if the new bushing feel slid out the old one would be a back up.

 

[Willys]

David, sorry about taking so long to get back to you on the post. It took some searching...



Here's the main thread with some pics:

http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147595&page=1&pp=15

Having personally witnessed two smaller trucks(F150 and minitruck) hit head on at similar speeds, the fact that Big Dan is still with us is a miracle.





RDHamill,

I agree- I think a tight slip joint is often the cause of a bad column bushing- definitely so on my brothers truck. On my truck, I can find no obvious cause though. It seemed to start about the same time I installed the luke's link in my track bar.





JessePayne,

1. It's pretty much impossible to keep the old bushing and install a new one. If you pull the steering column so you can get a good look at it, it will be obvious.

2. IF you could keep the old bushing, there would be little or no point in doing so- the old bushing is likely very sloppy and would add no support. The new bushing is a much stronger design. I can't believe the cheap crap that Dodge put in there, as there is no way that it saved money- one simple machined plastic bushing vs. 5-7 much more complex plastic and metal pieces.

3. David supplies retainers with the kit that holds the bushing on the shaft to keep it from sliding down. I supposed you could install set screws and/or locking collars, zipties :-laf or whatever you wanted to aid the retainer, but I don't see much point in it.

Hope this helps...



Andy

 

[DBazley]

Willys,



Thanks for the link I'll give it a look.



On Jesse's comment, you are right on, no point in keeping or trying to keep the stock bushing. It would not be possible, actually, or even work, as it relies upon a forcing cone to tighten it's fit to the inner shaft, and that is gone with our new unit.



But, it never hurts to ask !



thanks guys, take care,



David B.

 

[JessePayne]

my problem is getting the old bushing out. I figured it wouldnt harm anything to leave it in or would it. I just cant seem to get anything to grab onto it and it doesnt want to slide