Suspension improvement without the lift

[Lorenz]

National Spring use to purchase our front 2" and 3" coils when they got a Dodge customer in. They had their own a custom coil sitting on the self for the 2-3 years I delt with them.

If you want a ride that keeps you off the front bump stops, you will need to get the front end up, and I personally don't think a 1" coil will do it sufficiently. The OEM coils will allow the truck to hit the bumpstops going down the freeway even with 5100 Bilstiens to back them up.

95% of guys would not be happy if I sent them down the road with a 1" coil for the purposes of towing, but if you want it, we can propably make it. If your building a tow oriented rig you'll want more shock than the off the shelf 5100 Bilstein can provide. Our 2. 25 Sway A Way System had more dampening on both the rebound and compression to help out.

Infinite Rate Coils have 1-2" of plush ride before they start to ramp up. Lifting the front end 1/3 of what we normally do, would not accomish all that we have to offer... But, if you want that compromise, drop me an email and we can start working on it for you.

 

[AH64ID]

With my current 1", thou its only been a few thousand miles, I don't think there is any issue with contacting bump stops. My highway ride is fine, never been an issue. It's the towing on the bumpy back roads that's the issue. I don't think I am bump stoping then either (at least every time I have looked there is no evidence of contact), just a stiff arse OEM coil. From empty to max FAWR the front doesn't even move 1", just HD!

Another reason I don't really think a 3" would be the way to go is the angle of the control arms. Even the difference in 1" and 2" spacers was night and day for the ride. So a 3" kit has to be super soft to get a better ride than stock considering the less than ideal angle of the control arms. A 1" spring could be stiffer than the 3" spring and still ride better.

I am due for shocks so will put those on before next years towing season and see how that does. 5100's are what I plan to run.

 

[HHhuntitall]

For my operation, I'm in agreeance with Lorenz. I pull pretty regular, light or heavy, and use a lot of the SuperCoil products. I have a set of the SSC-23s in the front of my '97 3500 I use daily, and it's a difference in night and day. It rode pretty choppy at first, so I got a set of Rancho 9000s, (it was what was available!!), and it rides pretty good now, and I don't have a problem with bottoming out. I have a Buckstop on the front, and with the DewEze bale bed, it weighs a little of 10k lbs. For the rear, I had my own spring packs built by Truett-Worral in Dallas, adding two 5/8" leafs. The truck sits high in the rear a little, but add a trailer and it goes down around 1" or so, and load that trailer, and it goes down on the aux. springs, sitting level. With the weight, I think it needs reservoir shocks on it, and I'll go with the Bilstien's I think the next go around, but until the Rancho's give out, I'll stick with them.



My '03 has the 1. 5" spacer level kit up front. I had custom rears built for it, too, and it handles a load really nice. The longer wheel base helps the ride, for sure, but it needs upgraded shocks in it. The longer leaf spring packs in the back help with ride quite a bit, versus the 2nd gens.



But if I weren't loaded all the time, I'd go with the increased ride height for the off-road capability. I've had several trucks, and they get around well, but I'm always hitting the stops, either from articulation or ride bounce. At slow speeds, the short 4 link arms are not ideal, but work pretty well. I think the arms in the 3rd gen are better geometrically than the 2nd gens... ... but if I ever have to redo 'em, they'll be longer. But for economics, I don't think it's bad enough if you lift it 2" it will hurt much. The larger tires are where a lot of people find problems, and blame it on the lift. The CRAPPY(Can Really Appreciate Pre-P. o. s. Years) AAM ball joints don't help. I DO understand a lot of people don't want their truck any taller, as they are already jumping to get in. Air bags are often cheaper options than spring packs, but they limit articulation severely and can make a truck ride rougher empty.....



It boils down to what you are willing to do for your truck, time or money wise. If you have the money, and you think it's worth it, I'd take Lorenz up on his offer to make you what you want. To me, it's about usefulness, as I'm gonna keep the truck as long as I can, and probably part it out when I'm done, so the parts will get reused somewhere... ... . and I write the parts off, so some years it's helpful (albeit, not lately!!) If you can live with airing down and up, by all means, it's your truck. We're just here to tell you how you screwed up spending your money... ...

 

[Lorenz]

AH64 are you on the stock shocks?

 

[AH64ID]

Yes I am, even with 71K on them they are showing no signs of being worn out (un like some 10K mile rancho's I have run on other rigs).

 

[Lorenz]

The 2" spacers were riding like donkey because you were topping out your shocks. The whole truck was dropping into events, rather than your wheel and axel dropping into them like a suspension should. The horrible ride you described from the suspension combo you farmed together, had nothing to do with the angle of your control arms like you suggested.

If you ran that truck like that for a while, your OEM shocks are most assuredly ruined.

 

[AH64ID]

Actually it was the compression that was improved, not the extension. I only ever felt the shocks top out once or twice. The ride was rougher in small movements with the 2" than the 1", no where near the topping out limits of the OEM shock.

After having wheeled for several years and trying different shock/spring combo's on previous rigs I have a fairly good understanding of suspesnion geometry. I am by no means an expert, but I have experimented with different setups. As you know, but most companies that sell lifts for 4 or 5 links won't admit, is the further you get from the control arms being parallel to the ground the rougher the ride (assuming same spring/shock rates). This is because the axle can't just move up and down to absorb the bumps but has to move fore and aft and that takes longer and more energy, thus you don't get the suspension absorbing the impact and it gets transferred to the frame. Also when you hit something, like a speed bump, where the arms are behind the axle and the front is lifted the axle would have to move faster foreword than the truck to fully absorb the impact, but with parallel (or even just 1" closer) the axle can stay in the same location and move up and absorb the impact. .

The only time the OEM shocks ever topped out was coming off of a speed bump too fast becuase the truck would overcome the axle moving aft thru the motion faster. Even on bumpy back roads I never noticed a top out.

The shocks are probably not as good as they were new (yes good is a relative term), but there are no indications of a bad shock. I know I would improve the ride from better shocks but only from quality and not from a failed shock.

 

[leaky gasket]

Mattgos, have you come up with a solution yet?

 

[mattgos]

Gitts Spring was not interested in building something custom (wanted to sell me standard HD non-progressive coils with 2" lift).



National Spring never called me back.



I have been spending the time trying to convince myself the lift of an engineered suspension system won't be so bad and a set of 285\75 34" tires would be a reasonable compromise (my current tires are close to giving up the ghost). Lorenz Bilstein 2. 0 with the dual purpose leafs are at the top of my list; but I need to come up with the scratch...



cheers

mg

 

[AEdelheit]

I dont know if sean has updated his "dual purpose" leafs but when I ran them they sagged reallly bad, they were an older set but I had to run 2" blocks just to make it level with the front. The Bilstien 2. 0 is a great shock

 

[04blackcherry]

Just field tested my Lorenz stuff this weekend up in my hunting area. Pot holed roads, washboard, forest trails. Very nice improvement in my opinion. I put the 6% coils up front (1 3/4" lift) and the mini packs in back. I am 1 1/2" higher in back. I was able to adjust the rear height by adding or subtracting stock lift spacers or the 1/4" spacers that come with the minipacks. I had a custom 1" spacer that I didn't need. I ended up with the mini pack and the two stock spacers. I have Bilstein 5100 shocks. Mattgos, if you pm me I could meet you somewhere to show you what I got. I drive by Bellevue every day.

 

[Lorenz]

I dont know if sean has updated his "dual purpose" leafs but when I ran them they sagged reallly bad, they were an older set but I had to run 2" blocks just to make it level with the front. The Bilstien 2. 0 is a great shock

The DP leafs have been changed 3 times, and our first 10 sets did sack out. We changed our manufacture because of the issue. You can't cold forge leaf springs and expect them to last. Furnaces are becoming very scarce with gov't interference and regulation killing most of these buisness'. Leafs have to be worked when they're red hot, just out of the furnace. Trying to do it cold doesn't work.