Svnthetic oil change intervals?

[illflem]

Re: I doubt I ever need to change Dino Oil...

Steve, I go along with the same line of thinking as you. I have an older JD diesel that uses about 2 qts. of Delo every 10 hours and figure why change the oil since it's getting fresh stuff all the time. Buying Delo in 55 gallon drums at around $1/qt adds to the incentive. Been doing this for over ten years and a couple thousand hours, still change the filter at the recommended interval. The few times when I have pulled the plug have noticed no abnormal sludge buildup.

I know it would be better to rebuild the engine but it isn't one of my main tractors, maybe some day...

I might think different on an over the road truck that doesn't stay close to home though.

 

[amsoilman]

Sounds like he might be able to match (after 400,000 miles more) the performance of Dino and OEM filters. What is the point to all this extra plumbing and stuff? I just dont get it, why? With just OEM maintenance the engine will out live the truck. What am I missing?

Well, first off in that amount of miles, (600,000) there were 150less oil changes. Which amounts to 550 Quarts or 138 Gallons of oil and 150 oil filters he didn't have to buy! Plus he didn't have to find a place to dump all the containers, as well as all the oil filters and oil. And he didn't have to crawl under it every 4000 miles either... ... ... ... ... ... ... these seem like a good enough reasons for me. To each there own!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Texas Diesel]

No argument there, not doing something is usually easier than doing something.



If that is the only advantage...



Well, I guess I raised enough unanswered questions then.



Cummins says DO NOT use extended drains. Period. Anything else is conjecture. But as you said, to each their own.



I own a $40k truck, changing the oil is not a big issue, I dont mind following Cummins (after all they designed it) service schedule.



Go back and read my post, I think you missed the bulk of it.

 

[illflem]

Sorry Wayne but he still will have to buy and dispose of the oil filters and even more if he has a bypass also.

 

[amsoilman]

Illflem,

Sorry Wayne but he still will have to buy and dispose of the oil filters and even more if he has a bypass also.

I beleive I said he changed the oil filters every 16,000 miles. According to my figures that would only be 38 filter changes. Lets see... ..... Changing both filters(on the by-pass systems) would amount to 74 filters in 600,000 miles. That's still many less than 150 oil filter changes in the same 600,000 miles.





Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Texas Diesel]

600,000/7000=85 filter changes, by your numbers (150) you would have to change the oil and filter every 4,000 miles. I dont know anyone who changes their oil at 4,000 miles.



I would prefer the simplicity of the OEM setup compared to 3 filters (dual-bypass + OEM), lets see, your way I would change THREE filters 74 times, the Cummins way you would change ONE filter 85 times.



I made other points I would like to hear your comments on.

 

[Riflesmith]

Originally posted by Tejas Deezul

600,000/7000=85 filter changes, by your numbers (150) you would have to change the oil and filter every 4,000 miles. I dont know anyone who changes their oil at 4,000 miles.



I would prefer the simplicity of the OEM setup compared to 3 filters (dual-bypass + OEM), lets see, your way I would change THREE filters 74 times, the Cummins way you would change ONE filter 85 times.



I made other points I would like to hear your comments on.

Plenty of people change their dino oil at 4,000 miles or less. It has been drilled into American heads that oil can't go much longer(even though it can).



You are mininformed if you believe people running the Amsoil dual bypass setup have three oil filters to change. This system replaces the OEM filter. The single bypass unit adds a bypass filter, but retains the OEM filter setup in the original location. In both cases, you have TWO filters to change, not three. Many that run the Amsoil bypass filters run them until they will no longer pass oil. That is determined by feeling the filter to see if it is hot. When the filter stops getting hot when the vehicle is used, it is time to change the filter. Only the full flow filter is changed at regular intervals. I change full flow filters every 10,000 miles.

Bypass filter users also have oil with far fewer wear particles in their crankcase.



Two other important benefits of syntetics need to be pointed out. First is quicker lubrication of all equipment at startup. There is no doubt synthetics flow better than their dino counterparts. This difference is important as ambient temerature drops. Second, good synthetic oils are not prone to coking at high temperatures. This can make a critical difference to turbo bearings at shutdown.



For me it is an easy decision. The fact that it is also cheaper to run synthetics AND spend less time changing oil AND get better engine protection are just bonuses. I would still run synthetic oil even if it were more expensive.



Cummins can give me all the advice they want to. It is a simple fact that many TDR members BOMB their engines. Is your Cummins BOMBed Tejas? I doubt Cummins approves of that either. How many members engines are falling apart due to power enhancements? I don't hear of many. I hear of far less being damaged by extended drains on synthetic oil. In fact, I haven't heard of any.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Me modify my truck?





I'm curious now because the one I saw tapped the 1/8" fitting on the oil filter and allowed a small amount of oil to flow through the dual bypass filter setup. (This is where the leak was) The full-flow OEM filter was retained. Perhaps I had the dual bypass confused with the single bypass



I've had my oil analyzed several times for curiosity's sake, I'm still not comfortable going beyond 7k miles. You are right about people changing their oil too often, my brother-in-law changes his PowerStroke every 2000 miles Nothing will change his mind either and he uses like 15 quarts or something.

 

[amsoilman]

I'm curious now because the one I saw tapped the 1/8" fitting on the oil filter and allowed a small amount of oil to flow through the dual bypass filter setup. (This is where the leak was) The full-flow OEM filter was retained. Perhaps I had the dual bypass confused with the single bypass

Tejas Deezul,



Perhaps I can shed some light on the above comment.



Amsoil Inc. does offer a"DUAL-Gard" mount that will accept two by-pass filter elements, and connect in to the oil system as a "By-pass" just like single BMK-11 mount does. In this case, the OEM filter would still be mounted on the engine, and yes, there would be 3 filters to change. However, this is very much considered "OVER-KILL", as this DUAL-GARD system is designed to filter systems with greater oil capacities of 20 or more quarts.



Most of the CTD owners I know of use either the "Duel-Remote" BMK-15 (by-pass & Full-Flow on one mount),

or the BMK-11 "Single-Remote by-pass (By-pass element on remote mount) and Full-Flow in the same OEM position on the engine block.



I hope this sheds a little more light on this subjsect.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Texas Diesel]

Amsoilman, thanks for the information, I'm always interested in a "better mouse trap".

 

[Fireman]

Gotta go with Tejas on this one. With the BE-100 filter costing 2 1/2 X as much as the full flow, the cost of oil annalysis, it takes 3 qts of make up oil when changing filters (25% of the total capacity), and not to mention changing the by-pass filter was such a PITA. I removed mine recently and have gone back to oil changes at regular intervals. It only takes 10-15 min to change the oil anyway, and costs only slightly more overall. That's just the way I see it. Got a slightly used filter Amsoil mount and 2 new BE-100s just sitting around looking for a new home now.



Fireman

 

[amsoilman]

100,000 Miles traveled



5 or 6 years ago I made a comparison of the system I was using, and the system used by one of my friends. He chose to do oil changes every 4,000 miles on the CTD he had.



Normal oil change interval 4,000 miles



Based on oil capacity of 11 Quarts



Conventional oil change



25 changes X11 =275 qts. /69 gal



69 gal @$8. 54=$589. 26(Cummins Blue)



25 Oil Filters@$9. 00=$225. 00



Total Costs $814. 26



AMSOIL EXTENDED DRAIN



1 Change X 11=11 Qts/2. 75 Gal



3 Gal @ $18. 20=$54. 60



1 By-Pass system = $159. 00



3 By-Pass elements= $84. 00



3 Full-Flow Filters +$50. 70



10 Oil Analysis@ $10. 50 =$105. 00



12 Qts. Make-up Oil $55. 00



Total costs $508. 00





Now the difference in Material costs were $305. 00 Plus. No labor costs were figured in the equasion either.



But the BIG thing is the oil analysis! This tells the internal condition of the engine as well as any contaminants, such as fuel, water, Glycol, acids, soot or dirt. This is something no one will or can determine with out an oil analysis! In my humble opinion, this is the only way to go when one extends oil drain intervals on the CTD engine.



Now before anyone junps in here and says "You can't buy these oils for these prices"! Just remember, the prices i am quoteing were several years ago!





Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Fireman]

Your numbers aren't that far off, except for the analysis, I have used Blackstone Labs and they get $20 a pop. If you use that figure ( add $90) then regular oil changes cost 25% more, which is about what I have experenced. I also change my filters a little more often than 33,000 mi.



Don't get me wrong, it's not about the products. I tried it, thought about it, and decided it wasn't nesseccary for me. I'll still have my oil analysed annually, as a diagnostic measure. This isn't a slam, just an opinion.



Fireman

 

[EricBu12]

Wayne,

I am doing a mild extend which I know the oil can handle. I go 5000 on the filter and 10,000 on the oil. This makes up for the cost of the Oil (val. prem. blue extr. 5W-40 synthetic) I buy a case at a time from a valvoline dist. at $57. 95 for 4 gal. which works out to $14. 95/ gal. going double the dist on the oil makes it like a $7 gal oil change.

 

[illflem]

Eric, I think you can at least double your change interval to 20k with Valvoline synthetic. I'm going 10k on regular old Delo, no bypass, analysis says it's still good to go.

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by DOC NIELSEN

Greetings all, I have a question for the membership or any visitors that are using sythetic oil with by-pass filtration and that is what kind of milage are you getting between oil changes and do you believe the added cost is worth the investment? Thanks in advance

D N

I see a few people felt it was necessary to answer DN, even though they had never run a By-Pass system, synthetic oil or extended drains.



Maybe I misread the question?

 

[1sand0s]

Ummm, just for the record here. Warranty not voided with Ford, Chrysler or GM when using Amsoil. (I got letters. )

Of COURSE Cummins says that. They tell you not to clean the engine, too. Think about why the hundreds of thousands of motors out there in a fleet would give you the willies when you are talking about ext. drain int's.



I dont think it is magic snake oil. But my truck does have the mileage you see in my sig on two oil changes. You are welcome to look at my valve covers. No deposit anywhere in there. It all looks like new.



To the starter of this thread: My truck went its first 375,000 miles with 50k filter changes and samples. By 150,000, the thing had gotten cleaner than 50,000. Only reason it was changed was the new filter head made the sample go nuts. (Contamination with dirrrrrrrrrrrrrrt. )

I dont suggest this however.



TO me, I dont care about the cost. I dont dip my hands in holy Amsoil before bed and pray to the additive gods.

(There is only one true god... and he aint wearing a turban)

I have, quite simply, seen evidence with my own eyes of the stuff doing an OUTSTANDING job of reducing wear/crud in an engine.

If it cost me three times what regualar crap did, I would still use it.



One thing I just dont get though. Even though I certainly wont get into a ******* match about K+N vs AMS air filters etc... . Replacing either with "a good OEM" is just... . I dont know what?? Sounds to me like you have an axe to grind at the expense of your engines well being.



Good enough for my dad, good enough for me... ??#ad




I have heard some dealers get a bit "intense". I could even see some of them getting on your nerves. Maybe even claiming things that are not true. I might tell them to shut up, but taking off the filter for a paper junkie from fleetguard just out of spite? R U kidding me? DOH! Pooor poooor engine.





Beam me up scotty! There is no intelligent life down here!



#ad

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by 1sand0s

Ummm, just for the record here. Warranty not voided with Ford, Chrysler or GM when using Amsoil. (I got letters. )

Your owners manual requires a specific API service grade oil. Amsoil does NOT meet that grade. Technically you would be in warranty vilolation to use sub-standard (according to API classification) oil, regardless of brand. This has happened and supposedly the owners called Amsoil, who in turn, did or said something and the dealer relented.



This is a little known fact that you will never hear from an Amsoil dealer.



Is using Amsoil a serious threat to your warranty? I doubt it because most people ( and dealers) dont read the little doughnut on the oil bottles much less know what grade is required by the warranty.



I think Amsoil users have a right to know what issues *may* arise due to the API certification not being met.

 

[WadePatton]

I've got one dart to fling and then I'm outta here.



Amsoil hasn't been tested for API certification.



That does not mean the oil would not meet those specs.



Check out the latest TDR. Whether a company wants to spend 400,000 for a donut is up to them.



And I'm shakin' in my shoes worried about clean oil ruining my Cummins and not having a warranty.



okay it was a double-edged dart. bye now:-{}

 

[Riflesmith]

This has been hashed over on other oil threads. Amsoil is not API certified for one simple reason. They are unwilling to downgrade their product to API limits. The API limits ZDDP content(an effective anti-wear agent) to 1000 ppm or less. Amsoil is unwilling to downgrade the protection level of its products to meet the API standard.



Every site of this type I visit has an anti-Amsoil flag bearer or two. How many of them have actual experience with Amsoil products?



I thought the originator of this thread made it clear he had made the decision to go synthetic and extend his drain intervals. He also made it clear he was asking for EXPERIENCED opinions on what his drain interval should be. It strikes me as being rather rude to second guess his decision with chicken little logic and opinions based on old traditions that do not apply to synthetics.