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Svnthetic oil change intervals?

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Scotty II w/ hole cut turbine whine

Apology to Amsoil users/dealers

Was planning on going to synthetic at 100k. Now I may do it sooner. Hadn't really decided which one. Now I know it *MUST* be Amsoil. :p



You stand a better chance of getting hit by lightning or winning the lotto for big bucks than having your CUMMINS succumb to oil-quality-related failure.



The engine failures I've read about involved oil filters, contaminated oil filters(dirt daubers), foil from the fill bottle, and overheating.



On keeping the truck. I had my last one for 9 years and it was a GASSER!:eek: I've had this one a year already and look forward to having it for 10 more--at least. (And I'm going to get a 12v, just to play with). If it gets crashed beyond repair, I'm going to buy another 99,00,01,02! LONG LIVE THE MECHANICAL INJECTOR!!!



GULF COAST filter is the bypass I'm going to use. Paper towel element. Super HD.



Thanks Neal and Hohn and Riflesmith for saying many things I would have said and maybe saying it more better. :cool:
 
I just read an article on the API website and they don't have anything on there about not certifying diesel oil. Actually quite the opposite. Most dealerships aren't concerned with the type of oil anyway they are concerned with the filter when it comes to the warranty. I figure if my friends trucking company can get over 1 million miles on Rotella T then it works for me. Plus I get it at Sam's for 5. 85 a gallon. And pick up a Fleetguard filter at my local Cummins shop. I tried synthetic hoping for a mileage improvement and saw nothing so I switched back however I won't use anything but synthetic oils in my gas burner vehicles. Even my race car has it in it. I've ran 2 Suburbans over 230,000 miles on synthetic oil with no engine problems at all and they were still running fine the last time I saw them. Hohn's post on page 4 sums it up pretty good.
 
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Fuel the fire

I was only able to find one API cert. synthetic in cf-4/sh, delo 400 synthetic.



In manual (pp198 for 01) the picture of temperature ranges for service list synthetic. Fire away:D
 
Originally posted by Tejas Deezul
Lets reduce this to simple terms, if I read the owners manual and it says "use ONLY oils that conform to API XXX and shows a picture of the API doughnut, I then go to the store and pick up a bottle of oil, brand X, and it has neither packaging that says API Service grade XXX or does NOT show the API doughnut can I use that brand X in my engine (considering warranty implications only)?

To answer your specific question, yes, you can use it, but you should not use it. Why? Because the package does not state that the lube conforms to the API specification your engine needs for proper lubrication.

If the package does not state that it meets or exceeds the proper API Service specification, I would not use it. If the lube came from Fly By Night Lubes, Inc. , I wouldn't use it either, regardless of any verification API may have performed, and regardless of the display of any API symbol.

On the other hand, if the package states that it exceeds the proper API Service specification and comes from a company with a long-time reputation for producing consistent, high quality lubes, I would not hesitate to use it.

We all rely on lube manufacturers to produce a quality, consistent product. Why? Because API do not test every ounce of oil their licensees produce; they only spot-check after the initial testing is executed. If the mfr's quality control is poor or their raw materials are substandard, there is no guarantee that all of their lube always meets API's minimum specifications. There is also no guarantee that API's spot checks will happen to catch substandard products. This goes for Shell, Mobil, LE, Amsoil and even Fly By Night Lubes, Inc. It goes for all lube manufacturers.

The display of the API donut indicates only that the manufacturer paid API to test a sample of that lube's compliance with the designated API spec, and that API found that that sample of oil did, indeed, conform. Similarly, the display of the API starburst only means that the manufacturer paid API to test a sample of that lube's compliance with the designated ILSAC spec, and that API found the sample of that lube did conform.

Which lube manufacturer would you trust? A new company with no track record and no history? A company with a 30 year reputation for producing consistently high quality lubes? Or a company that's been merely meeting the minimum specifications for 100 years? And which lube would you rather use?

It all comes down to making an informed decision. I made my informed decision 3 years / 70K miles ago, and have had no cause to question or regret that decision. You and every reader of this thread must make your own decisions. And to make good decisions, readers need consistent, accurate information.

Is someone making a bad decision by choosing to use only lubes that bear the API Service donut? Of course not. By the same token, someone who chooses to use a fully synthetic lube made by a company with a 30 year history of producing consistent, high-quality lubes that exceed API's specifications is not making a bad decision either, even though that company has not paid API to test the lube. On the other hand, someone who chooses to use only lubes that bear the API Certified starburst symbol in his diesel engine likely will end up with engine failure - due to using gasoline engine lube in his diesel engine.

Neal
 
Which lube manufacturer would you trust? A new company with no track record and no history? A company with a 30 year reputation for producing consistently high quality lubes? Or a company that's been merely meeting the minimum specifications for 100 years? And which lube would you rather use?

Neal



I believe the dino oils we're talking about (Rotella T) and Delo 400 are produced by companies that have been making lube oil for a very long time. I certainly would not call them fly by night oil companies. Also, how do you know Rotella T and Delo 400 meet only the minimum specifications when a new specification has yet to be determined?



Oil certication is no guarantee that all samples tested will pass. However, you can't use this argument and say Rotella T and Delo 400 will fail to pass the API standards in a random sampling.



What I would like to know is why Amsoil does not certify their diesel oils. They have spent the money to certify their gasser oils, but don't feel it is needed for the diesel market. I'm sure the diesel market is not as big as a gasser, but as much as Amsoil charges for their oil, surely they can afford to have it certified.



Last question... are you willing to have brain surgury from a doctor that has not had/passed his/hers medical exam for their certification?



Given a choice, I'll pick a certified oil anytime over non certified oil.
 
Originally posted by fj40charles

Another oil thread gone down the toilet... Just use what you want since it is your own truck, but don' t try to tell me I "need" to use synthetic (don't care which brand) because it is more "cost effective" and/or it protects better. If I wanted a "cost effective" vehicle I would have gotten a Japanese car that gets better mileage and costs less. I don't buy tools that are cost effective. I get the tools that I want which tend to be more expensive than the run of the mill Craftsman tools.



I live in Texas so the temp argument doesn't apply. I'm sure the Cummins will last MUCH longer than my truck will so to me is a moot point. Just how many of you will be putting on 1 million miles on your truck? I can get there easily with plain dino oil such as Delo 400 or Rotella T. I figure I'll keep my truck for another 3-4 years max. I got almost 100K miles so I figure I'll have around 250K miles when I get rid of it.



Do I "need" synthetic engine oil? Is it right for me? Both answers are no.



Do I use synthetic fluids on my truck? Yes, I use Amsoil series 2000 75W-140 in the diffs and use Mobil synthetic ATF in the transfer case.



Charles



Charles I agree with your thought process. I'm Rotella T 15w40 in the engine and synthetics in the diff's and transfer case. But like you stated, it's your truck do what you want. It is fun to see what others think and what their reason is for what they are doing with their truck.
 
Originally posted by fj40charles

I believe the dino oils we're talking about (Rotella T) and Delo 400 are produced by companies that have been making lube oil for a very long time. I certainly would not call them fly by night oil companies. Also, how do you know Rotella T and Delo 400 meet only the minimum specifications when a new specification has yet to be determined?


Nor have I said or implied any such reputable company is a fly-by-night organization. But such unscrupulous companies do show up now and again.

Oil certication is no guarantee that all samples tested will pass. However, you can't use this argument and say Rotella T and Delo 400 will fail to pass the API standards in a random sampling.

No, but I can say they *could* fail. After all, all lubes are manufactured 'within certain tolerances', and sometimes those tolerance limiters fall out of calibration.

What I would like to know is why Amsoil does not certify their diesel oils. They have spent the money to certify their gasser oils, but don't feel it is needed for the diesel market. I'm sure the diesel market is not as big as a gasser, but as much as Amsoil charges for their oil, surely they can afford to have it certified.

A plain, straightforward explanation.

The simple answer to this is Amsoil uses much more phosphorous compounds (for oxidation and corrosion inhibition) than API allows. Thus, nearly all Amsoil engine lubes will fail the API tests. Read the article to see why this isn't a problem with Amsoil lubes. Other reasons for not submitting to API testing include being subsequently locked into a single vendor for basestock supplies.

Last question... are you willing to have brain surgury from a doctor that has not had/passed his/hers medical exam for their certification?

Bad analogy. To my knowledge, there have been no deaths resulting from using non-API licensed lubes in engines. And as far as I know, there have been no engine failures resulting from the use of the proper Amsoil lubes in engines.

Given a choice, I'll pick a certified oil anytime over non certified oil.

And that is most certainly your right as a human being: to make your own decisions, based on whatever information you choose to assimilate. I, on the other hand, am willing to trust a company with a sterling reputation, whose products have been tested independently and found to be as good as or better than most other available products, whose products have been tested and used in the field with no failures when used and maintained properly.

But I do have to question why anyone would trust API (a profit-oriented business) over Amsoil (a profit-oriented business). I do have to question why anyone would outright distrust Amsoil, to the point of insinuating they are liars. Why should I blindly trust a Shell, or a Mobil, or a Kendall, or a Quaker State, but blindly and completely distrust Amsoil? It makes no sense; it is illogical to do so.

My basic peeve with this thread is that some folks have been promulgating misleading and otherwise incomplete information about Amsoil's synthetic lubes. The way some folks keep harping on Amsoil's lack of API testing and insinuating that it is a shoddy, inferior product at least borders on bashing the product. No TDR member who uses Amsoil's 15W40 diesel engine lube product has ever stated that it has been tested and passed by API, as has been insinuated, nor has any Amsoil user deliberately hidden or denied that Amsoil is not API tested and approved.

There is a small difference between "tested and approved by API" and "meets and exceeds the respective API specification(s)". The difference is that API performed the testing in the former case. The same tests are performed, one set by one profit-oriented business and the other set by another profit-oriented business. There is a large difference between "meets and exceeds the respective API specification(s)" and "tested by Bob's Backyard Oil Testing Service" (which might just as well be "").

Finally, if one wants to get truly technical, fully synthetic lubes are not petroleum-based; and API specs are geared toward petroleum-based lubes - they don't always translate directly to synthetics. Thus, the American Petroleum Institute shouldn't have anything to say about synthetic lubes. Of course, should the API someday get around to recognizing that synthetic lubes have different properties, and these properties obviate certain API spec limits, then maybe they'll produce more reasonable specs that take into account the superior properties of synthetic lubes.

To reiterate, I think the one question that must be raised is, "Why should I (or anyone) blindly trust the API and every manufacturer who make lubes packaged in containers bearing one or both API symbols, while at the same time blindly loathe and distrust Amsoil?" What have Amsoil done to earn and deserve such enmity? And what have API and the other manufacturers done to earn such blind loyalty?

Neal
 
fj40charles,

What I would like to know is why Amsoil does not certify their diesel oils. They have spent the money to certify their gasser oils, but don't feel it is needed for the diesel market. I'm sure the diesel market is not as big as a gasser, but as much as Amsoil charges for their oil, surely they can afford to have it certified.

I think it was mentioned somewhere above that the only "Gasser" engine oils that are "Licensed" and carry the API starburst, is the 7500 series engine oils. ALL of the other "Gasser" engine oils DO NOT carry this starburst, and one Diesel oil does as well. (15W-40 (PCO)

The Following is why they are not "Licensed". (straight from Amsoil Inc. )



Let us address API licensing in depth, as well as the issue of warranties. Some AMSOIL motor oils are API licensed, some are not. If you're concerned about your warranty and feel

pressured to use an API licensed oil, even after reading this answer, then the 5W-30 (XLF) or 10W-30 (XLT) XL-7500 or our 15W-40 (PCO) API licensed oils should be your choice. If you are looking for an alternative to frequent oil changes or just want the best performing oil for your car, then one of our top tier non-API licensed synthetic oils are for you. Read on, and decide for yourself.



API Licensing - Passenger Cars - What is it?



An API (American Petroleum Institute) license indicates that a specific motor oil formulation has passed the minimum performance standards as defined by a series of laboratory bench, physical, chemical and engine tests. These tests were selected and minimum performance standards were set by the API Lubricants Committee to address specific areas such as engine wear, deposits, fuel economy, emissions, etc. The committee is comprised of representatives from automobile, oil and additive companies.

The cost for running a test program for a single passenger car motor oil formulation is from $125,000 to $300,000, depending on if the formula passes the tests the first time through or requires multiple test runs or formula modifications to achieve a passing average. (That amount goes to $275,000 to $500,000 for a Heavy Duty Diesel licensing program on a specific formula. ) Once that testing is complete and the formula has passed all of the minimum requirements,it can be licensed for $825 per year for non-members and $625 per year for members. There is also a small royalty fee per gallon sold for all gallons over one million. The length of time between new specifications is now approximately 2 to 3 years, which does not allow a great deal of time to recover testing costs.



Who Licenses What Formulas?



Additive companies, such as Lubrizol, Ethyl,, Infinium and Oronite, develop licensed formulas that they offer to oil companies to re-license. It is inexpensive to re-license one of these formulas, and the majority of oil companies choose to do this to avoid the costs associated with testing. This, however, tends to commoditize the market. The same chemistry is being sold under many brand names. Most of the major oil companies do have their own proprietary formulas developed, tested and licensed. All of AMSOIL INC. 's lubricant formulas are unique and proprietary.



Flexibility In Manufacturing An API Licensed Formula API licensing was originally developed for mineral based oils, and it affords these oils more flexibility than synthetic oils.



Mineral oils comprised of group I and Group II petroleum basestocks may use a simple program called basestock interchange for added flexibility in manufacturing and purchasing. Interchange means that by completing the proper paperwork and running a few minor engine tests an oil company can choose to buy these petroleum basestocks from many different suppliers. This ensures adequate supply and competitive pricing. However, basestock interchange for Group III and V synthetic basestocks is not allowed. For example, if a formula was tested with an ester (Group V) basestock from a specific supplier, then anyone blending that formula must buy only that supplier's ester. Complete engine testing would need to be performed on the formula using another supplier's ester before an oil company could buy it from that alternative supplier. This additional testing is normally not performed because of the associated costs. This inflexibility makes it very difficult for synthetic lubricant manufacturers to negotiate prices with synthetic basestock suppliers.



There is also something called viscosity grade read-across. Fortunately, this applies to both petroleum and synthetic basestocks although the better cold temperature performance of synthetics makes it more difficult to achieve in some situations. (That's another whole story. ) What this means is that if you properly formulate the lubricant for which you have run all of the API tests, there are guidelines that allow you to use that same formula to make 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30, etc. viscosity motor oil.



Finally, there is a rule for substitutions in the CMA (Chemical Manufacturers Association) code of practice that allows a small degree of flexibility for all formulas. It allows a company to change the percentages of components in the formula by varying amounts from the original formula with limited testing and paperwork requirements. For example, if the licensed formula used 10% of a certain V. I. improver, you would have the ability to utilize from 9% to 11% of the same V. I. improver for your formula.



Key Limitations For API Licensed Formulas



Phosphorous content - . 10% maximum (API SL; 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 viscosity grades, only)



NOACK volatility - 15% maximum



The prevalent sources of phosphorous in motor oils are additives called zinc dithiophosphates (ZDTPs). Currently, these versatile additives act as oxidation/corrosion inhibitors and aid in the ability of a lubricant to reduce wear. The automobile manufacturers, however, have demanded that lubricants contain a maximum of only . 10% phosphorous. Their reason is that some manufacturers believe that higher phosphorous content levels will poison the catalytic converers on their cars before they reach 150,000 miles, which is the number of miles that their vehicles will be required to pass EPA emission standards. There has not been total agreement within the automotive and lubrication industry about whether phosphorous levels over . 10% actually do harm

catalytic converters in the long run. What they have failed to make allowances for is the NOACK volatility of an oil.



The maximum allowable NOACK volatility percentage for the new SL/GF-3 passenger car motor oil specification is 15%. Most of AMSOIL motor oils are in the 5% to 8% NOACK volatility range. Studies have shown there is a correlation between NOACK volatility, oil consumption and the amount of phosphorous from motor oil that will end up in the exhaust gasses. Therefore, oils with higher levels of phosphorous but with low volatility, such as AMSOIL motor oils, present no more risk to catalytic converters than low phosphorous oils with higher NOACK volatility. This has also been demonstrated for years in actual application through state mandated exhaust gas testing on our Dealers' and customers' high mileage vehicles using AMSOIL synthetic motor oils. State inspectors are continually amazed at the low emissions levels generated by vehicles using AMSOIL products. So much for poisoning catalytic converters.



AMSOIL INC. has determined that the reduced wear and extended drain intervals achievable with phosphorous levels higher than the API limit of . 10% are real benefits for the consumer, and pose no risk to catalytic converters. AMSOIL motor oils, except for the API licensed XL-7500 5W-30 and 10W-30 viscosity grades, all have greater than . 10% phosphorous levels, and therefore, cannot be API licensed.



Why Some AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils Are API Licensed And Some Are Not.



1. Full API licensing puts AMSOIL INC. in an inflexible position. Not only would we find it necessary to buy formula components from specific vendors and be at the mercy of their pricing, we would not be able to make any major improvements to the lubricant formulas for 2 to 3 years, without new testing and the associated costs. To solve this problem, the API must establish basestock interchange guidelines for synthetic basestocks just as they have for other basestocks, as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components too.



2. Full API licensing would impose strict phosphorous limitations on our motor oils. This limitation is the main reason most AMSOIL motor oils are not API licensed. AMSOIL INC. currently disagrees with this limitation and feels strongly that the reduced wear and longer oil and additive life achieved through higher levels of properly balanced phosphorous content is more important than the arbitrary API phosphorous limit that does not give any consideration to the NOACK volatility level of an oil. When chemistry is developed that will provide superior engine wear protection with reduced phosphorous levels, or Noack volatility considerations are put in place, then the phosphorous level will become a non-issue.
 
Warranties And API Licensed Motor Oils



Fortunately, the law does not allow manufacturers to "void your warranty" simply because of the brand of oil you use, the specifications it meets or the miles you drive between oil changes. To be specific, they cannot deny to fix your broken radio, faulty valve or cracked piston because you used an AMSOIL non-API licensed motor oil, or because you've gone more than 3000 miles since your last oil change. Denial of warranty coverage must be specifically due to an oil related failure. All courts of law will find against any manufacturer or dealership that tries these warranty shenanigans.



Only if the oil is determined to be the direct cause of the engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for that specific problem.

In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and in getting the vehicle repaired. That's our pledge to you. AMSOIL INC. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. If this does not resolve the problem, AMSOIL will submit a claim with our insurance company and request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary. The fact is there never has been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products, and we do not expect there ever will be. If it ever did, both AMSOIL and our insurance company would make certain your problem was resolved.



How Does AMSOIL INC. Ensure Their Products Meet Or Exceed The Minimum Specifications Of The Tests Required For API Licensing?



First, AMSOIL INC. works closely with major additive companies to select the top performing, and usually most expensive, passenger car and heavy duty diesel motor oil additives. These additives have already passed all of the API licensing requirements in a petroleum or synthetic based formulation. Then we work with the additive company to maximize the amount of additive used and to boost the additive package in selected performance areas to achieve an optimum performing additive package for reduced wear and extended drain intervals. This is unlike the vast majority of companies who, because additives are expensive, use the minimum amount of the least expensive additives required to meet the minimum API requirements.



We then utilize a blend of synthetic basestocks with known performance characteristics as a replacement for the petroleum basestocks to optimize performance in areas of lubricity, volatility, viscosity index, oxidation and nitration resistance, pour points, flash points, deposit control, soot handling, emissions, etc. We also will utilize a highly shear stable V. I. improver to ensure viscosity retention throughout extended drain intervals. This replaces the inexpensive and less shear stable V. I. improver used in the API licensed petroleum formula. We do laboratory bench tests before running field tests to verify the superiority of the synthetic formula in actual use. We also continue to monitor the performance of the oil through close scrutiny of tens of thousands of oil analysis tests per year across a wide variety of vehicles all around North America and the World. AMSOIL INC. has been collecting used synthetic oil samples from passenger cars since 1982. No other oil company has such a vast data base of the performance of synthetic lubricants over extended drain intervals.



AMSOIL INC. 's products and formulations outperform API licensed oils. They're engineered that way. Period.



Conclusion



AMSOIL INC. takes pride in never having conformed to industry norms or standards when those standards are contrary to peak performance. We introduced synthetics to the automotive world in 1972 with the first synthetic motor oil to exceed API performance specifications. At that time other manufacturers refused to recognize the superior performance of synthetic motor oils. Now, however, most companies sell synthetic lubricants, vehicles are factory filled with synthetic motor oils and gear lubes, and some manufacturers even offer extended warranties if you use synthetics. AMSOIL has always offered extended drain intervals because the oil was capable of performing for extended drains, and it was the right thing to do for the consumer. Now the entire industry is moving in that direction. Ironically, it was recently published that automotive manufacturers will be recommending extended drain intervals of up to 15,000 miles in the near future because that's what consumers want.



AMSOIL is a company of firsts. That doesn't happen by always conforming to industry norms and standards.



API licensing of lubricants is voluntary, and it ensures automobile manufacturers and consumers that the product meets a set of minimum standards. Should these standards, in the future, be raised to a level consistent with AMSOIL's standards for motor oil performance, AMSOIL will consider licensing all oils.

For those that feel pressured to use an API licensed product, we have them and encourage you to use them (XLT, XLF and PCO). AMSOIL does offer better performing motor oils that are not API licensed for all of the reasons explained in this response. They provide our customers with alternatives to the commodity products typically available in the market today. If you want the convenience of extended drain intervals or the top performance from your vehicle, AMSOIL has taken time to engineer the very best money can buy.

This should take any and all missinformation from the above, as it came DIRECTLY From Amsoil Inc.



Wayne

amsoilman
 
:-laf Guess we should all drain our crankcases and refill with Amsoil since they know more than all the other oil manufacturers combined. Wonder how all the 1,000,000 mile owners will feel when they figure out they ran inferior oil for those 1,000,000 miles.



I have a neighbor who sells Amway ( pyramid sales, just like Amsoil), he will argue all day long using puesdo-scientific words why Amway products are superior to anything else. :-laf
 
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Originally posted by fest3er

Thus, the American Petroleum Institute shouldn't have anything to say about synthetic lubes. Of course, should the API someday get around to recognizing that synthetic lubes have different properties, and these properties obviate certain API spec limits, then maybe they'll produce more reasonable specs that take into account the superior properties of synthetic lubes.

When the big API clients want to push synthetic, that's when it'll happen. Right now they're just too happy to put three drops of synthetic in a dino oil and call it a BLEND. Fight big oil-- buy non-API synthetics!!! ;) :D

I've used Redline in racecars and gearboxes, wonder if it is API tagged? :-laf :-{} not that it matters.
 
Originally posted by fest3er

Last question... are you willing to have brain surgury from a doctor that has not had/passed his/hers medical exam for their certification?



Bad analogy. To my knowledge, there have been no deaths resulting from using non-API licensed lubes in engines. And as far as I know, there have been no engine failures resulting from the use of the proper Amsoil lubes in engines.



Neal [/B]



Neal,



My analogy did not mention any deaths, but wanted to stress the fact that for many/majority of the folks, certification (don't matter what kind) is important. It states that you have met a certain criteria. Like you've said, I have every right (along with most of the guys that do their own oil changes) as a human being to pick which oil to use and I do.



I restate what I've said in the past. There have been plenty of 1 million mile trucks running plain ole dino oil. Unless you live in the frozen turdra or race your trucks, there is NO need or benefit for someone like me living in Texas who tow a few times a year. I don't buy the argument about not changing the oil for 100K miles because I like to look under the hood from time to time to see what is going on with the engine.



I'm not bashing Amsoil. I use Amsoil series 2000 75W-140 in my diffs. I just dont' see a need to use it in my motor and I don't agree that it will make any difference to my motor at 300K to 500K miles. I will not keep my truck that long and really doubt that I'll be anywhere near the mileage before I buy a new one.



I guess the most frustrating thing about these oil posts is the fact that the Amsoil guys (dealers) are the ones preaching why you "need" this motor oil and how it "saves" you money. It is kind of like vegetarians. They're always trying to convert the meat eating folks who are just happy with their diet. I try to stay away from vegetarians because frankly I really don't care what they eat as long as they me alone and let me eat my steak.



I'll just stick with Rotella T. Besides, Amsoil engine oil can't come close the good smell or Rotella... :D



Charles
 
Amsoiloilman,



Good info... . Does Amsoil marketing people wonder if they'll sell more oil if more of their oils are API certified? I'm willing to bet yes.



Charles
 
Originally posted by fj40charles

I don't buy the argument about not changing the oil for 100K miles because I like to look under the hood from time to time to see what is going on with the engine.

I'd rather be playing with the GOFAST goodies than fooling around with the engine oil. I'm going to add a Gulfcoast filter and Amsoil so I can spend more time trying to poke fuel and air through the 5. 9. And to be a baaaaad boy. :D

I'll just stick with Rotella T. Besides, Amsoil engine oil can't come close the good smell or Rotella... :D

Charles

Yep, I'm going to miss the Rosmella. But I figger (and engineers worldwide disagree) that by 100k the Rotella and standard filtration has polished the clearances just enough. By going to super filtration and analysis, the engine clearances should be maintained indefinitely.



Now if we could get those cedar-tree-on-the-rearview "freshener" folks to come out with a little flat Rotella jug with that just-changed-the-oil smell! :cool: :D
 




Good info... . Does Amsoil marketing people wonder if they'll sell more oil if more of their oils are API certified? I'm willing to bet yes.





I'm willing to bet that the API cert or doughnut doesn't mean anything to the majority of people.

Would you buy an extension cord just because it's UL listed?

Or pass it by if it's not?

Buy a pillow even if it didn't have that stupid do not remove tag on it?
 
I have a neighbor who sells Amway ( pyramid sales, just like Amsoil), he will argue all day long using puesdo-scientific words why Amway products are superior to anything else.



Now we're getting to the REAL root of your problem with Amsoil!
 
Originally posted by fj40charles

... There have been plenty of 1 million mile trucks running plain ole dino oil. Unless you live in the frozen turdra or race your trucks, there is NO need or benefit for someone like me living in Texas who tow a few times a year. ...



Do you drive your truck 300-500 miles a day, day in and day out? If so, you should easily reach 1M miles on 5K oil changes. The engine never really gets cold, and it certainly gets plenty hot enough to vaporize any water in the oil. And you must change the oil every 10-20 days. Those are ideal conditions for longevity.



OTOH, typical urban/suburban/rural driving conditions are much harder on an engine, and need good additives. I'm using Amsoil so I don't have to worry about missing an oil change, so the additives will control the nasty stuff from my infrequent use of the truck, so I'll have less wear and tear on all of the engine components, so I'll generate less waste oil.



I'm not bashing Amsoil. I use Amsoil series 2000 75W-140 in my diffs. I just dont' see a need to use it in my motor and I don't agree that it will make any difference to my motor at 300K to 500K miles. I will not keep my truck that long and really doubt that I'll be anywhere near the mileage before I buy a new one.



Yup. Your choice is yours for your conditions. And mine is mine for my conditions.



I guess the most frustrating thing about these oil posts is the fact that the Amsoil guys (dealers) are the ones preaching why you "need" this motor oil and how it "saves" you money. It is kind of like vegetarians. They're always trying to convert the meat eating folks who are just happy with their diet. I try to stay away from vegetarians because frankly I really don't care what they eat as long as they me alone and let me eat my steak.



I don't care for the preaching either, and I try to avoid it. I'll present the numbers once in a while, but the $ numbers are only one thing to consider. Many factors were involved in my decision to switch to Amsoil, bypass filtration and no changes. And for me, it's been worth it.



I'll just stick with Rotella T. Besides, Amsoil engine oil can't come close the good smell or Rotella...



You got me there. And you can *keep* the Ro-smella.

:D :D
 
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