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Svnthetic oil change intervals?

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Scotty II w/ hole cut turbine whine

Apology to Amsoil users/dealers

The reason Amsoil is not API certified reamins a mystery to me.

The claim "we wont lower ourselves to meet API criteria" seems kinda silly when Amsoil's gasoline oils are "low eoungh" to be API certified. Do you believe everything you read? Why would they API certify their other oils?



The other sites you mention that have Amsoil banners is because it is called advertising, I see ads for the "most powerful diesel" placed by GM. If you have $ you can advertise cow poo.
 
No, I don't believe everything I read. I make my own decisions. The proof is in the actual using of a product, not some silly bias toward a company without any experience with their products.



Here is a recent oil analysis of mine using Amsoil 5W-30HDD.

This is after 15,000 miles on the oil.



Viscosity cSt@ 100 deg F: 11. 2

Iron: 26ppm

Soot: <1. 0

Chromium 0

Lead 7

Copper 13

Tin 1

Aluminum 8

Silicon 4

Manganese 2

Boron 34

Magnesium 5

Calcium 4289

Zinc 1341

Phosphorus 1241

Molybdenum 0

TBN 12. 7

Oxidation 16. 7

Nitration 10. 0



These numbers do not reflect anything but actual experience with a good product. I would like to see a conventional oil hold up this well over the same interval.



By the way, you are misinformed about Amsoil gasoline engine oils. The only line of gasser oils that are API certified are the XL-7500 line of group III synthetics. The upper tier group IV/V oils are not API certified for reasons explained in my previous post.



Every one of us will continue to believe what we choose. I prefer to base my decisions on actual experience with a product rather than bias against a product based on hearsay and rumor.
 
Originally posted by illflem

Eric, I think you can at least double your change interval to 20k with Valvoline synthetic. I'm going 10k on regular old Delo, no bypass, analysis says it's still good to go.



I am with illflem on this. I run Redline. It has 8K+ on it right now and looks to be very clean. Maybe I should get analysis done to see how far I can go without bypass??



Redline says 18K interval with no bypass for all their oils. But that can't account for some engines which are in great shape, and others that have bad problems.



I am going to go this winter on the Redline, then see what I am going to do. I might go back to Delo. For me, it boils down to this:



1- synthetic is better oil

2- bypass is better filtration



It really is that simple. The cost factors, extended drain, good-enough-is-good-enough and all that are really just window dressing for me.



HOHN
 
Originally posted by Tejas Deezul

The reason Amsoil is not API certified remains a mystery to me.

The claim "we wont lower ourselves to meet API criteria" seems kinda silly when Amsoil's gasoline oils are "low eoungh" to be API certified. Do you believe everything you read? Why would they API certify their other oils?
First of all let me say there is nothing wrong with Amsoil, it's good stuff, just pricey.



1) I've been though quite a bit of haggling with API in tiring to get our canola based motor oil certified. They won't do it because it's not made out of petroleum. They don't certify any non-petroleum products, that's why they're called the American Petroleum Institute. Why didn't Amsoil use this excuse not to certify since they say their oils are made out of what they claim to be non-petroluem manmade chemicals??

2) Some synthetic group 4 and 5 oils are API certified (gasser Amsoil, Royal Purple to name a few) but they all claim to be made out of non-petroleum man-made chemicals. API contends that the man-made chemicals actually do come from crude oil, that's why they certify them. Whoops Amsoil, there goes an excuse they could have used, better say it costs too much to certify now.

3) Now read this letter from Amsoil and tell me if you can believe anything they say.

First of all, the class 1,2, and 3 base stocks are crude oil petroleum products even though the class 3 is classified legally as a synthetic. Class three stocks are very highly refined petroleum’s that qualify to be synthetic due to a court case between Castrol and Mobil. Much info can be found on the web about this, so I won’t elaborate. Class 4 and 5 base stocks do not come from crude oil, and are man made chemicals. Presently, there are no API licensed group 4 motor oils. This doesn’t mean that they can’t be, but there are only a few small companies such as AMSOIL that use this 100% PAO chemistry. None of these companies have felt compelled to pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars required to complete all the testing and certification. These PAO products are expensive as is without adding the cost of licensing, which would add even more cost without value. The API donut only designates that minimum spec’s are met, and doesn’t really ensure any level of product quality. The PAO products far exceed the minimum API spec’s, so the donut has no value as such. Hopefully this helps. Thank you,



Jim Van



AMSOIL Technical Services

 
Originally posted by illflem

The API donut only designates that minimum spec’s are met, and doesn’t really ensure any level of product quality. The PAO products far exceed the minimum API spec’s, so the donut has no value as such. Hopefully this helps. Thank you,



Jim Van



AMSOIL Technical Services




OOOOOOK, lets see, according to the amsoil guy, "The API donut only designates that minimum spec’s are met AND "The PAO (AMSOIL) products far exceed the minimum API spec’s,



Hmmmmm, if API certification = minimum specs AND Amsoil EXCEEDS API specs (minimums) then that explains why Amsoil is not API certified BECAUSE Amsoil exceeds the API certification ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!



:-laf I get it!! :-laf
 
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Originally posted by Tejas Deezul
OOOOOOK, lets see, according to the amsoil guy, "The API donut only designates that minimum spec’s are met AND "The PAO (AMSOIL) products far exceed the minimum API spec’s,

Hmmmmm, if API certification = minimum specs AND Amsoil EXCEEDS API specs (minimums) then that explains why Amsoil is not API certified BECAUSE Amsoil exceeds the API certification ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

:-laf I get it!! :-laf

TD, since you are so hot on API-certified lubes for diesel engines, would you be kind enough to produce a list of all diesel engine lubes that *are* API certified, whether or not they are synthetic? And would you be kind enough to indicate which of those lubes meet the specs needed for the Cummins B5. 9?

It will take some digging and research, but this information can be found via the API web site.

Thanks,
Neal
 
Here you go, here is a list of all API licensed oil:



http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayBrandNames.asp



here you can search by different catagories:



http://eolcs.api.org/



Just look for API service catagories that meet or exceed your engine requirements. For example, catagory SG you could use SH because SH meets SG specs and then some additional requirements.

Remember, as Jim Van from Amsoil admited, "The API donut only designates that minimum spec’s are met... " Any oil that is not API licensed gives you no assurance that the minimum requirements are met.



My 01 requires CF-4/SH so anything meeting that or higher will work and meet warranty requirements.



Hope this answers your question.
 
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I see it's time for me to re-post my previous post on the API certification subject. It's one of my better ones, if I may say so myself... ...



JLH



API certification

I just waded through a nightmare oilwar thread and realized that these fights aren't about oil at all. It seems to me to be more about trust. Like do you trust the manufacturer or the API? Say what you want about different oil companys' marketing (many of you already have, and then some), but it doesn't matter.



API certification is much ado about nothing. Anyone ever eat meat that wasn't USDA inspected? Ever taken a pill that wasn't FDA approved?



Many industry organizations are less than scrupulous. For example, the SFI, which sanctions safety equipment for drag racing. If you want to race, you have to have SFI approved safety stuff (seatbelts, scattershields, etc). It's a monopoly. There is documented proof of cases where Vendor A makes a scattershield like Vendor B does. Both are submitted for approval, but Vendor A's part fails. Vendor A BUYS Vendor B's (now-approved) part and submits it as their own for approval. Surprise! It Fails! What was the difference? Vendor B bought advertising in an industry publication, while Vendor A did not.



Standardization is a TINY part of the reason we have organizations like the API. The main is reason is that they serve as a de facto regulating body that helps to protect its members from competition. They have help from the automakers (who spec API oils) and the gov't. Why? They NEED this protection. See, the oil market is different from other businesses in that it doesn't have a high "barrier to entry. " That's an economist's term to mean that it's VERY expensive to get started in some businesses. For example, a housekeeping business has a very LOW barrier to entry-- you could start that business with almost nothing. On the other side, making cars has a VERY high barrier to entry-- you won't see someone starting a car company out of his garage.



So, since you could start whipping up oil in your shop, you could easily start a business making better oil. Indeed, many synthetic oil companies started that way. API certification is less about the oil, and more about letting that manufacturer become a member of "the club".



The only thing API certification means is that the "buyer beware" factor is less. It means the stakes are lower. Without API certification, you might end up with an oil that is either MUCH WORSE or MUCH BETTER. YOU have to decide what your tolerance for risk is. Just like investing-- some people will day-trade, other will buy savings bonds.



Compare this to tapping the pump wire. Getting rid of your warrantee means the stakes are higher. It might be much WORSE (VP44 blows up) or much BETTER (Comp on 5x5 is hard to argue against). BTW, I think that it's unethical to tap the wire and try to hide it-- either tap it or don't, but accept the consequences of either.



I would encourage each of us to consider how much stock we put in others looking out for us. No one cares as much about you as YOU do. That's why the police can never protect you as well as you can protect yourself with a 9MM. No doctor cares as much about your health as you do. No one cares more about the oil in your truck than YOU do-- certainly not the API.



Some people need the feeling of security that a warranty or API certification brings (just like they feel better about having more security at airports). Fine, but ask yourself if it's anything more than just a feeling. Are you REALLY any more secure having all that airport harassment? Are you REALLY any more protected having a warrantee on your vehicle (which it seems they are always trying to get out of)? Are you REALLY making your engine safer with an API certified oil?



The bottom line is that the people that want or need API certification are free to do that, and have their reasons. The main reason is that they just aren't comfortable with a higher level of risk in this area, or many others of life. It is CERTAINLY not a reason to harang others who are more adventurous, and try to CONVERT them to a certain point of view. Let those who are comfortable with higher-stakes living enjoy that. It is the RISK TAKER that makes America great. Without risk takers, there would be no private business, no Capitalism, no competition, and also NO PROGRESS.



Ultimately, we are ALL not only our own warrantee stations, but our own life stations. What we eat, what we say, how we spend our time-- they are all part of the never-ending trail of decisions (and consequences) that make up our lives.



Enjoy yours to the fullest, and don't try to discourage someone else from doing so.
 
I looked at the list that Tejas Deezul mentioned and didn't see any diesel rated oil under the Mopar or Chrysler name. I wonder if the stuff that the dealers sell is API certified.
 
Mopar and Chrysler oil is API certified, it's on the bottle or drum, I read it somewhere+





Hohn, I (respectfully) disagree with your post.



Take Octane ratings, would you use 40 Octane in an engine that calls for 87 Octane minimum? The Octane ratings are a way to standardize a rating system for gasolines 'knock' resistance the same way the API GUARANTEES that oils meet MINIMUM wear resistance by their licensing criteria.



As far as the FDA, I can eat anything I want but FDA approved meat indicates that it has met certain criteria against being diseased.



I think we agree on the fact that each owner has the right to make *informed* decisions. You know piercing the pump will will most likely void your warranty before you pierce it.



Taking a non FDA approved pill has risks too, you might die because of unknown side effects.



This was great: "The only thing API certification means is that the "buyer beware" factor is less. It means the stakes are lower. Without API certification, you might end up with an oil that is either MUCH WORSE or MUCH BETTER. YOU have to decide what your tolerance for risk is. Just like investing-- some people will day-trade, other will buy savings bonds. " couldnt have said it better :)



There are two sides to the Amsoil debate, like it or not, non-API certification is a liability. Period. Hiding from that fact is silly.



I just get sick of hearing ignorant statements like this: "It (Amsoil) meets the specs whether it says so on the bottle or not" (I read that here not too long ago)
 
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Tejas, I agree with your last point about ignorant statements.



I would appricate it if someone could show me how I was wrong about the API serving as a barrier to competition.



Lacking API certification may be a liability, but may also be a very minor one. . Those convenience-store grade oils are ALL api certified. Would I choose one of them over (insert synthetic brand here)? Not a chance!



Amsoil needs to get away from saying it certified or meets specs. It's simply confusing and misleading. They should instead just say they don't API test, they don't believe it's necessary, etc etc...



I believe very much in capitalism, and it bothers me when I see warranty claims tied to the use of certain oils. While PARTLY there to protect the buyer, it's MOSTLY there to protect the oil companies from competition, for which they give a cut to the automakers...



HOHN
 
So if I have an oil related failure, I will drain out the Amsoil and drop in some superb RATED Quaker State before having it towed to the dealer for repair.

Oh yeah, I think I might be a little out of the warranty. Sorry.



Issue solved.



Now I can get beamed up.



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I wholehartedly agree with you HOHN, API certs pretty much don't mean much. Like you said, there are some pretty cheesy, obviously low quality, 99 cent oils out there that meet the API ratings that I wouldn't use for lubing door hinges, let alone my truck.
 
There are a thousand people on the net who sell Amsoil.

Do a search and include your city and town in it.

The dual bypass kit is about 200 or so retail.

Just as important is the air filter, which, unlike those

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paper filters... . keeps the nasties out of your engine in the first place.



Best thing you can do for your Cummins, hands down. Even works on Escorts, Neons, Camrys... etc
 
From other boards on 4X4s I have heard that the K&Ns let a lot of fine silt through. Is that true for the CTDs also??
 
Originally posted by zachv

From other boards on 4X4s I have heard that the K&Ns let a lot of fine silt through. Is that true for the CTDs also??



Gawd here we go, another war ;) Lots of people use and love K&N's, I had one in each truck but they went in the trash when I started seeing silicon levels of 34PPM. Perhaps you should start a new thread and see if others have seen elevated silicon levels.



Hohn, those 99c quarts are made by some large oil company and are identical to the name brand except they are in ugly generic bottles. What makes you believe that the oil companies give a cut back to the OEM car makers?
 
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