Truck "Making" Oil

[Topzide]

The AlfaOBD software, security gateway cable and an Android phone or tablet will allow you to do an injector kill test. The software is a big plus for our trucks! Allows code checking, diagnostics and so much more! Get it and a MX+ Bluetooth dongle along with other items for the toolbox.

 

[brucejohnson]

I have personally gone over all of the charge air system and checked for loose clamps or leaks and found nothing out of place. I have done everything I can without having access to a wiTech or other scan tool. Otherwise I would have done injector kill tests and leak-down tests to check for and rule out an injection problem.

I have never been more frustrated with the people that claim to be technicians but yet can't diag anything without a code or flowchart that tells you what part to change...Those people aren't techs they are parts changers.

I haven't gone the route of contacting Ram Cares because I'm afraid it will alienate the dealer that I have to deal with and then the treatment will be worse than it is now.

As far as going to another dealer; I've called other places but when the first question is "did you buy it from us" and I say no, the wait is automatically 3 months or longer for an app. Plus another dealer isn't going to go above and beyond to help because I didn't buy it from them...Trust me, been there done that, with my '13.

The dealers in my area some of the most spiteful people I have ever seen. Yet I keep going back?!?!? I guess I like getting kicked in the teeth.

Have you monitored the DPF indicator to see how rapidly it fills and correlate the time and percentage with the regeneration?

 

[Pizzamaker991]

The AlfaOBD software, security gateway cable and an Android phone or tablet will allow you to do an injector kill test. The software is a big plus for our trucks! Allows code checking, diagnostics and so much more! Get it and a MX+ Bluetooth dongle along with other items for the toolbox.

I'll certainly look into it, may very well be worth it since the dealer refuses to do any testing without the CEL being on. I have even offered to pay diag time to try to find out whats going on. Then if a problem is found and is covered under warranty just to reimburse me, but they still won't because "if there is no CEL there is nothing wrong"

Have you monitored the DPF indicator to see how rapidly it fills and correlate the time and percentage with the regeneration?

I have, and there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to when the gauge percentage changes. sometimes it goes up to 5% in as little as 10 miles after regen, other times it will go 70+ miles showing 0% then jump right up to 25%. The only thing consistent is after it shows over 40% a regen will always start within 20 miles. I have the same commute to work every day so the driving is the same 90% of the time.

Ultimately I want to find out if there is a fuel system problem like a leaky or sticking injector causing over-fueling / running too rich, making the oil level rise which is also burning fuel vapor via the ccv and the two combined making it regen too often.
Or
If its an emissions system issue like a partially face-plugged dpf that is causing it to regen too often and in turn making the oil level rise

 

[brucejohnson]

I'll certainly look into it, may very well be worth it since the dealer refuses to do any testing without the CEL being on. I have even offered to pay diag time to try to find out whats going on. Then if a problem is found and is covered under warranty just to reimburse me, but they still won't because "if there is no CEL there is nothing wrong"



I have, and there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to when the gauge percentage changes. sometimes it goes up to 5% in as little as 10 miles after regen, other times it will go 70+ miles showing 0% then jump right up to 25%. The only thing consistent is after it shows over 40% a regen will always start within 20 miles. I have the same commute to work every day so the driving is the same 90% of the time.

Ultimately I want to find out if there is a fuel system problem like a leaky or sticking injector causing over-fueling / running too rich, making the oil level rise which is also burning fuel vapor via the ccv and the two combined making it regen too often.
Or
If its an emissions system issue like a partially face-plugged dpf that is causing it to regen too often and in turn making the oil level rise

What does the inside of your tailpipe look like, clean, dusted with barely perceptible carbon or coating the inside to where you cannot see the metal?
I wish I could locate the operation of the DPF function with diagrams and text I found about a year ago. If I recall correctly, there are two pressure sensors involved, inlet and outlet. The computer compares the two for a differential in pressure and determines the "status". A timer for every 20 hours and/or pressure differential triggers the regeneration.
I could be off somewhat on that function. Too many things rattling around in the organic calculator's flickering memory cell.
Sorry your available dealers aren't very accommodating. Do you get to work with a particular advisor to have someone who can follow the process, and work with you (listening and making it happen)?
Like others suggested, I'd look into the Alpha OBD. It may help you pinpoint possible issues. Also, RamCares. They can "gently nudge" the dealer's service department with recommendations. If you don't have trust in a dealership, look around for one that will work with you. Maybe I am spoiled with my dealership. They aren't perfect; neither am I. But we get along great and have resolved some challenging issues together in the past.

Ah-ha! Try these: How an Aftertreatment System Works | Cummins Inc.
6.7 Cummins Emissions Systems - EGR, DPF, SCR, DOC, NAC Explained (dieseliq.com)
A little s-l-o-w in presentation, but has pieces-parts pointed out RAM Cummins DPF Operation - YouTube

 

[Timd32]

Here is the P2459 stuff, I thought I posted this up already and may have.

 

[brucejohnson]

Here is the P2459 stuff, I thought I posted this up already and may have.

I knew I saw it somewhere...
That was in another thread, post 12 of https://www.turbodieselregister.com...regen-frequency-to-often.273139/#post-2705325

 

[Pizzamaker991]

What does the inside of your tailpipe look like, clean, dusted with barely perceptible carbon or coating the inside to where you cannot see the metal?

It has a thin coating of carbon enough you can't see the metal but thin enough it doesn't build up then I wipe it off with my finger.

It has barely been 1k since the dealer did the oil change and instructed me to drive it 5k and bring it back. Maybe I will reach out to the Ram people and see what they say, because it seems irresponsible to keep putting miles on it with an oil level that is rising and overfull. I don't want to cause any kind of catastrophic damage to the engine running it this way.

 

[Timd32]

I knew I saw it somewhere...
That was in another thread, post 12 of https://www.turbodieselregister.com...regen-frequency-to-often.273139/#post-2705325

Thanks, yeah I don't know on any of these procedures, it's pretty amazing how much documentation they have built out for all these codes and the sort. Helpful to someone like me, not sure really, I read them and see where they are looking for problems, sometimes they have good pictures attached.

Hate to provide bad or knowingly off base info, that's what they developed for that frequent regen.

Unrelated to vehicle repairs, for equipment problems I always guide folks thru the super basic stuff first and foremost, if they get frustrated with some really basic checks I know what kind of tech or person I'm dealing with, it's a personal gauge of patience and skill level. Not so much a waste of time because starting with a known set of system conditions is a must in certain situations, I need a base line to work off of.

Going back to these repair processes you can enter in verified repairs into the forum and it gets tagged to the code. Not a huge database on this, it's a 3rd party tool not a dealer tool, and IMO too much extra work for someone to upload the verified fix on top of their normal workload and just time/benefit to the person doing the fix.

I find the 40% DPF gauge +/- 20 miles interesting. Mine is close to that will see. I copied and used the same excel format my last four are very similar to what he shows.

If it does an unexpected regen not time based when I hit the near 40, will post my results. Otherwise mines still above safe and driving as usual.

 

[Ozymandias]

It has a thin coating of carbon enough you can't see the metal but thin enough it doesn't build up then I wipe it off with my finger.

There shouldn't be the slightest amount of soot in your tailpipe. Not at all.
If there is soot something is totally bad with your truck.

Connect to RAM cares immediately, tell them the whole story, including the soot in your tailpipe and see what they say.

 

[Pizzamaker991]

There shouldn't be the slightest amount of soot in your tailpipe. Not at all.
If there is soot something is totally bad with your truck.

Connect to RAM cares immediately, tell them the whole story, including the soot in your tailpipe and see what they say.

I will call Ram on Monday when I'm off.

I reached about a foot into the tailpipe and took a swab from around the pipe.

 

[PRS]

I will call Ram on Monday when I'm off.

I reached about a foot into the tailpipe and took a swab from around the pipe.

View attachment 138031

So the Particulate Matter sensor function is malfunctioning as well?
I don't think it's that black & white, excuse the pun. The idea that there should be no soot at all I believe is false. There are times during warm up and cool down, and low power output when the complete combustion of the fuel will yield some hydro carbons, because the temperature is just not hot enough. Yes, go pull a 20k trailer for an hour and then let it cool down and shut it off, and it will be pretty clean. Not under everyday light load driving.
That's what the Particulate matter Sensor is for is to monitor if what gets past the DPF is too much.

 

[AH64ID]

So the Particulate Matter sensor function is malfunctioning as well?
I don't think it's that black & white, excuse the pun. The idea that there should be no soot at all I believe is false. There are times during warm up and cool down, and low power output when the complete combustion of the fuel will yield some hydro carbons, because the temperature is just not hot enough. Yes, go pull a 20k trailer for an hour and then let it cool down and shut it off, and it will be pretty clean. Not under everyday light load driving.
That's what the Particulate matter Sensor is for is to monitor if what gets past the DPF is too much.

Any soot is abnormal.

 

[Ozymandias]

So the Particulate Matter sensor function is malfunctioning as well?
I don't think it's that black & white, excuse the pun. The idea that there should be no soot at all I believe is false. There are times during warm up and cool down, and low power output when the complete combustion of the fuel will yield some hydro carbons, because the temperature is just not hot enough. Yes, go pull a 20k trailer for an hour and then let it cool down and shut it off, and it will be pretty clean. Not under everyday light load driving.
That's what the Particulate matter Sensor is for is to monitor if what gets past the DPF is too much.

Nope, the DPF is always there and it collects even the smallest amounts of soot, no matter if engine is cold or hot and right from the first rotation of the crankshaft. But regeneration takes place only when the engine is at operating temperature.

That tail pipe needs to be lick clean, cleaner then any exhaust of a gas vehicle.

 

[PRS]

Nope, the DPF is always there and it collects even the smallest amounts of soot, no matter if engine is cold or hit. But regeneration takes place only when the engine is at operating temperature.

That tail pipe needs to be lick clean, cleaner then any exhaust of a gas vehicle.

Ok I'll take your word for it. But then that begs the question regards the PM sensor and why no code for too much soot past the DPF if the tailpipe is dirty?

 

[Turbo Terry]

I like that if your tail pipe is black you have a huge problem. Unless you’re deleted. My DPF gauge shows nothing at almost 18 k and I’m using def at a normal rate I think. Do I have a problem?

 

[Timd32]

So mine wants to regen again.

Tail Pipe is clean as a whistle.

Before

As found

After

Edit......
Right at that 40% a few miles after.

 

[brucejohnson]

Here is a nice explanation on how the DPF works: Basics of Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) Operation | CTS (ctscorp.com)
Looks like soot in the tail pipe is a valid indication of an issue.

 

[Turbo Terry]

Sorta like the famous Covid swabb. I couldn’t help it I don’t know if mine is that clean . Why does my truck not show dpf on the dash at 18 k . So is a Cummins fleetguard not a factory air filter and will void my warranty

 

[Timd32]

Sorta like the famous Covid swabb. I couldn’t help it I don’t know if mine is that clean . Why does my truck not show dpf on the dash at 18 k . So is a Cummins fleetguard not a factory air filter and will void my warranty

You are 100% good, zero is good, short answer is your camper.

 

[Timd32]

Why does my truck not show dpf on the dash at 18 k

Could not edit the above with the break out.....
Your at zero because you run your truck loaded all the time.

So is a Cummins fleetguard not a factory air filter and will void my warranty

No your fine, there are a few part numbers so make sure you have the correct filter.

I don’t know if mine is that clean

My bet is, it is.