Tuner?

[KRSmitty]

My 2017 is now out of warranty and considering picking up a tuner of some kind. Truck is now a DD and RV tower. Truck is stock with of enough power as it is, so not looking for anything wild...better throttle response and improve MPG, especially when towing.

I was looking for something like the old Smarty Jr., but looks like they are not available for 4th gen. Anything else from Smarty that is available?
Also familiar with EFI, but was not to impressed with that. Worked no better than my Smarty.
Edge products worth looking into?
On one of the threads someone recommended Calibrated Power. I was looking at the Jack Autocal (for stock trucks). Any users of their products? The transmission tuning help any? At $1,000, a little steep for maybe gaining 1-2 MPG.

Also looking at a Pedal Commander. Any users out there?

 

[Jim W]

Why do you want to add a program to your truck, are you going to delete? If you are not going to delete than I would stay stock and save your money.

If you stay stock and add a program! I do not think you can improve on your fuel economy when towing especially if you are towing a 5er, that's like pulling a sail behind you.

Others will way in but I think most of us would not delete a truck built after 2013.5 unless you are having issues.

 

[KRSmitty]

Nope, no plan to delete, plenty of power. Just sort of curious of the possibilities. I have heard from others that increases in MPG on the 2017 would not be found. Same on the delete...others would not recommend on a 2017.

May have to try a Pedal commander though. Have heard some good things...less than $300.

 

[MtnRider]

There is little to no benefit to tuning for mpg in these late model DEF equipped trucks. Even deleting and tuning you will barely see any gain.


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[Randomrunner12]

There are companies out there that are starting to develop emissions complaint upgrades such as banks and American Diesel Power. eventually you will be able to upgrade and increase power and performance without having to remove any emissions equipment.

There was a video a while back that someone did an emissions compliant truck versus a deleted and built truck. I think it was ATS and someone else but the ATS emissions truck ended up being the better truck and still 50 state legal.

 

[R.Taylor]

Pedal commander may be your best bet... Feels like a tune but it's not. I had a PC on my 18', On my 19' I run the Edge Amp'd throttle booster... Big difference from stock, Makes the truck feel proper when accelerating and getting on the freeway.

 

[Wiredawg]

I installed a module on my 2017 Ram 5500 and like it a lot. It is similar to the old Edge Tow Pros/EZs. It has a switch, stock, 30, 60, and 90 HP. I've tried all and like 60HP. Just like the afore mentioned Edge products, the Stealth Module changes fueling. There's a lot of bashers out there, but this and the old Edge modules never gave me any problems and have a nice power upgrade that is easy to install. Someone was selling one on the TDR.

Anyhoo,, I like the extra power, especially towing my 21K Lb 5th wheel and the really heavy generators I towed to and from hurricane areas.

Cheers, Ron

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

There is little to no benefit to tuning for mpg in these late model DEF equipped trucks. Even deleting and tuning you will barely see any gain.


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This is not true at all. I’ve been riding in a coworkers truck daily for the last three years. He deleted his truck recently and his mileage went way up. His driving style/habits did not change either, he still drives exactly the same. When the truck was stock, he was getting 350-400 miles per tank depending on the time of year. He’s now getting 550-600 miles per tank. I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure that’s a significant gain.
That’s just one truck I’ll mention. I know of many others who have had similar outcomes.

 

[C M McCormick]

My 2017 is now out of warranty and considering picking up a tuner of some kind. Truck is now a DD and RV tower. Truck is stock with of enough power as it is, so not looking for anything wild...better throttle response and improve MPG, especially when towing.

I was looking for something like the old Smarty Jr., but looks like they are not available for 4th gen. Anything else from Smarty that is available?
Also familiar with EFI, but was not to impressed with that. Worked no better than my Smarty.
Edge products worth looking into?
On one of the threads someone recommended Calibrated Power. I was looking at the Jack Autocal (for stock trucks). Any users of their products? The transmission tuning help any? At $1,000, a little steep for maybe gaining 1-2 MPG.

Also looking at a Pedal Commander. Any users out there?

Just wondering what gears do you have and what speed do you drive when towing your 5th wheel?

Craig

 

[MtnRider]

This is not true at all. I’ve been riding in a coworkers truck daily for the last three years. He deleted his truck recently and his mileage went way up. His driving style/habits did not change either, he still drives exactly the same. When the truck was stock, he was getting 350-400 miles per tank depending on the time of year. He’s now getting 550-600 miles per tank. I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure that’s a significant gain.
That’s just one truck I’ll mention. I know of many others who have had similar outcomes.

350-400 is pretty low to start with? What year is the truck? Is the mileage hand calculated?
I am deleted and everyone I know that is (DEF trucks) has had very little mpg increase. I got "maybe" 0.5mpg gain. My driving habits did not change, I do not hot rod the truck etc., just drive it normally like the old man I am. Now a pre-DEF truck is another story, you can gain a lot on those but they were pretty piss poor to begin with so lots of room for improvement.


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[TRAMPLINEMAN]

350-400 is pretty low to start with? What year is the truck? Is the mileage hand calculated?
I am deleted and everyone I know that is (DEF trucks) has had very little mpg increase. I got "maybe" 0.5mpg gain. My driving habits did not change, I do not hot rod the truck etc., just drive it normally like the old man I am. Now a pre-DEF truck is another story, you can gain a lot on those but they were pretty piss poor to begin with so lots of room for improvement.


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It’s a ‘14. He has hand calculated every tank of fuel in a log book since the truck was new. Are you running a hotter tune or the stock tune? He’s kept his on stock tune. He didn’t want more power, just better mileage and better reliability and has gotten both.
There’s a ‘15 and ‘18 around here with the same outcome. There’s also a ‘17, but he normally runs a hotter tune and drives like a teenager.

 

[Wiredawg]

Just wondering what gears do you have and what speed do you drive when towing your 5th wheel?

Craig

I tow everything at 65MPH and I have 4.88s, that has the tach right at 2100 RPM. Solo, i run 72 in a 75 MPH at 2400. Just the C&Cs are tuned to 325HP/750TQ, so adding power to bring them up to what the P/Us are makes them almost fun to drive.

EDIT: You cant delete with a module.... you need a tuner for that. I will never delete again with increased enforcement of EPA laws.

Anhoo, it's an option to improve performance a little.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

There are companies out there that are starting to develop emissions complaint upgrades such as banks and American Diesel Power. eventually you will be able to upgrade and increase power and performance without having to remove any emissions equipment.

There was a video a while back that someone did an emissions compliant truck versus a deleted and built truck. I think it was ATS and someone else but the ATS emissions truck ended up being the better truck and still 50 state legal.

Mads worked well both full emmisions and deleted on my 09 Ram 4500. Mads was/maybe is very good at building usable power on emissions trucks. I had Mads on my 02, 03, 09, and would have had on my 17 had Mads customer support had not dropped so much. I saw equal performance on my 09 4500 both fully emissioned and deleted, but I didn't have problems with my 09 4500 many had with thier P/Us. The main thing was I purchased my 09 4500 to pull heavy trailers, which was very high percentage of duty cycle, not short trips. I had way fewer regens as the DPF got hot enough towing that it self cleaned, which I think was a big problem with folks using them more like cars than trucks for the 07 to 12 trucks.

As a side note, its interesting to see the power/capabilities of these trucks grow from my '93 1st gen, '00 and 02 2nd gen, 03 and '09 3rd gen, my 17 4th gen, and now the 5th gen (or 4.5 Gen, whatever) trucks. I guess there's always a need/want for more power/better mileage. Interesting point, folks quit deleting catalytic converters on gassers lots of years ago, and I think we're there or close now with diesel trucks.

So, there's no real wrong or right answer here... it's all about perceptions and realities, needs and wants. BTW, it don't hink any of the "upgrades/deletes" ever paid for themselves...

Cheers and good luck figuring it out.

Ron

 

[MtnRider]

Interesting point, folks quit deleting catalytic converters on gassers lots of years ago, and I think we're there or close now with diesel trucks..

Cheers and good luck figuring it out.

Ron

True But the issue for me has been reliability of the current emission systems. I am anti-delete But when I started having issues that were going to cost me more to repair then to remove that's what I did (and leave me stranded because of them). I hate it, I hate the smell etc but it was a reliability/financial decision that drove me to do it.
I know a lot of people have no issues and I was one of those guys for a long time. I always pooh poohed people that did delete but here I am :-(

I do think the system are improving and hopefully they will be more reliable in the near future or at least carry a lifetime warranty because replacement parts for the system are ridiculously expensive.


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[Randomrunner12]

True But the issue for me has been reliability of the current emission systems. I am anti-delete But when I started having issues that were going to cost me more to repair then to remove that's what I did (and leave me stranded because of them). I hate it, I hate the smell etc but it was a reliability/financial decision that drove me to do it.
I know a lot of people have no issues and I was one of those guys for a long time. I always pooh poohed people that did delete but here I am :-(

I do think the system are improving and hopefully they will be more reliable in the near future or at least carry a lifetime warranty because replacement parts for the system are ridiculously expensive.


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I'm right there with you, I only deleted because of the issues, EGR cooler leak, Sticky throttle valve. Actually caught someone trying to cut my DPF out in Midland, ended up getting towed back to McKinney, TX from there. Insurance wouldn't cover and the police did nothing about it so rather than spend the 7k (dealer said it all needed to be replaced) I spent 3k for a Clutch, tuner and exhaust and have stayed on level 1 since. After that I went from 15-16mpg to 18-19mpg empty, 12mpg towing anything. I've now swapped out the turbo, added a fass 150gph, Better tuning from CTT, stronger clutch and traction bars and now average 21-22mpg city/highway empty. Extended highway such as road trips I get as high as 28mpg hand calc. 16-17mpg towing anything under 10k cause that's about all I tow these days.

The right setup can be found, you just have to remember that you can't have all 3 at the same time.

1. Power
2. Economy
3. Reliability

You can have 2 of the 3 at anytime but never all three together. I chose to have economy and reliability with the option of passing power with a sacrifice in economy.

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

I hear ya on your problems and empathize with you. Just saying there is a risk that EPA enforcement may kick in... the laws and fines are already in place... the fine is $25K if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure the industry (manufacturers) would rather not have emissions laws either, but they are there. Sadly, the real answer is replace emissions parts as they wear out just as any other part on the truck, if needed.

A DPF should have a fairly long life and there are good cleaning procedures/products that work well. I deleted my 09 4500 in 09 about 6 months after purchase and kept my EGR and DPF in case I sold the truck or decided to put it back on. In 2017, I decided to put it back on due to pulling RV through states that enforce the emissions law. Apparently I needed a regen before removing DPF and couldn't seem to burn it off through conventional means. I researched and found good cleaning system heavily used in Europe. I treated it twice and it worked, additional catalyst that burned off the particulate and worked fine until I sold it. Also worked on a friend's Ford clogged DPF.

So anyhoo, I dont criticize or blame anyone for deleting... just concerned about eventual enforcement of existing Federal Emissions Laws.

Cheers and good luck deciding what to do.

Ron

 

[AH64ID]

I would look into someone who will write you a custom tune for a MM3. The MM3 is one of the best monitors I’ve used, and the UDC Pro/Warp platforms are the best custom tubing platforms for Cummins, IMO.

Your dislike of EFI is not with the program, but rather the programmer.

When my warranty is up I will go back to tuning my own truck, but I won’t be deleting. Just making some small tweaks.

 

[KMyrick]

I pulled my stock throttle valve off as it has been sticking. Engine light came on as a result. Recommendations for a tuner to clear the code?

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

I decided to try out the MM3 and a couple programs John ( @AH64ID ) wrote for my 2017 Ram 5500. I have to say I'm very impressed. My stock HP/TQ is 325/750, so I asked for 360/800 (the new '19+ C&C rating) and 385/930 (2017 HO rating). I first checked the 360/800 and was impressed about the improved low/mid improvement in TQ... yes , you can feel a 50lbt ft increase. Now I'm trying the 385/930 and so far its "WOW!"

I still have (or had) powertrain warranty for about a year and a half, but decided to go for it anyway. Although I ordered the tuner with an EGT probe, I haven't installed it yet. I'm going to monitor temps downstream to see if I need to bother. At 12,200 Lbs unloaded, my 5500 will never be a drag racer, but it does move smartly and has nice acceleration. I'm seeing 10.5 MPG combined city/highway, which is fine with me for this beast.

Anyhoo, for anyone contemplating tuning their truck, MM3 and custom tuning might be a good option. I'm liking it so far.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Jim W]

Ron, I am not sure if John put a boost fooler option or not or if one is needed, but I have that option install on my Smarty. An I would recommend a boost gage with a EGT gage to be installed on your truck. I am using them along with a transmission temp gage. When towing my 5ER I can see between 30 and 35 PSI boost pressure even on slight grades with EGT’s around 900F in 5TH gear doing 65 MPH. When in 6th gear the engine could be around 1100 to 1200 F, with the boost pressure could be around 20 or 25 PSI, so I will down shift to 5th gear to keep the EGT’s down.

The Smarty is set on CaTCHER 3 with all parameters set to normal.

just a suggestion.