Warning: Prefilling An Oil Filter Can Be Dangerous To Your Engine

[JimScott]

Good post. I just prefilled mine two days ago when I did the oil change,but am always very careful to make sure the seal is fully removed. Delo gallon jugs have a plastic tab on top and the seal comes off cleanly. I remember that article in the TDR. It warned about Fram filters also.

What's the warning about Fram filters? I suspected a Fram filter caused a middle main spin out and subsequent broken crank on a vehicle many years ago, but I could never prove it. I found debris in the oil passage that looked like filter material. Is that what you are talking about?

Jim

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

What's the warning about Fram filters? I suspected a Fram filter caused a middle main spin out and subsequent broken crank on a vehicle many years ago, but I could never prove it. I found debris in the oil passage that looked like filter material. Is that what you are talking about?

Jim

It wasn't just Fram oil filters - there were several others that Cummins put out warnings on as to their use on the Cummins - related as I recall to the extra high oil flow of the Cummins oil pump causing the element media of those indicated brands ripping apart, and causing poor filtration or random pieces to be loosed into the oil stream - I believe NAPA and perhaps a couple of others were named - and they quickly withdrew those from the market and provided improved (Cummins approved) replacements.

 

[steved]

It wasn't just Fram oil filters - there were several others that Cummins put out warnings on as to their use on the Cummins - related as I recall to the extra high oil flow of the Cummins oil pump causing the element media of those indicated brands ripping apart, and causing poor filtration or random pieces to be loosed into the oil stream - I believe NAPA and perhaps a couple of others were named - and they quickly withdrew those from the market and provided improved (Cummins approved) replacements.

Actually, it was with the introduction of the 24-valve... the 24-valve generated more heat and oil pressure than the previous generations.



The neoprene sealing washer in most filters would deteriorate and fail, plugging oil passages... the media itself did not typically fail, the internal seals are what failed.



There were also early reports of can "ballooning" on the 24-valves, when the earlier model's oil filter was used.



If you notice, the original "do not use" list points out a bunch of now obsolete/superseded filters... even the Fram was replaced with an "A" version.

 

[Buffalo]

While on my first towing trip with my new '91. 5 W-250, I stopped in the Dodge dealership in Cortez, CO. & spoke with the service mgr. I asked him for advice regarding my new Dodge/Cummins. He took me into the back of the service shop & showed me 3 Dodges that were having their engines rebuilt. I almost passed-out!!!



He told me the reason they were rebuilding the engines was due to the aftermarket oil filters that had been used. The filters all had come apart & put filter material throughout the engine plugging up oil flow.



Those three trucks convinced me to run nothing but Fleetguard filters in both of my Dodge/Cummins' trucks.



So, this was becoming a problem as early as Oct. 1991. Long before the 24 valve engines had arrived on scene.



Joe F.

 

[steved]

The tsb covered the 24 valve.

 

[tgordon]

Funny side story, I was driving a KW with a red to N14. All of a suddon the check fluids light came on. Checked all the gauges and everything was fine, but the engine still died. A little while later I got the engine to start and it ran fine. Happened a few more times before I could get somebody to hook a computer up to the engine. Come to find out the dash gauge is mechanical and the computer has a seperate sensor @$^&*^%*^.



I have for years installed the filter dry, disconnected the wireing for the shut-off solinoid and cranked till I had oil pressure and then a little more. I have figured that if the farm equipment manufacturers have been putting the filters in ways the one cannot prefill and the engines last for 15K+ hours it cannot be to super important.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

While on my first towing trip with my new '91. 5 W-250, I stopped in the Dodge dealership in Cortez, CO. & spoke with the service mgr. I asked him for advice regarding my new Dodge/Cummins. He took me into the back of the service shop & showed me 3 Dodges that were having their engines rebuilt. I almost passed-out!!!



He told me the reason they were rebuilding the engines was due to the aftermarket oil filters that had been used. The filters all had come apart & put filter material throughout the engine plugging up oil flow.



Those three trucks convinced me to run nothing but Fleetguard filters in both of my Dodge/Cummins' trucks.



So, this was becoming a problem as early as Oct. 1991. Long before the 24 valve engines had arrived on scene.



Joe F.

YUP - that was back when several filter brands were having the problems on a relatively large scale, they were quickly recalled and later versions redesigned accordingly - really don't know of any similar issues since then - but prejudices die hard, and guys hearing about that earlier issue won't soon forget...

 

[BVol]

I pre fill from a 1 qt bottle--they don't have the seal like the 1 gallon jugs.

 

[PGAdams]

Does anyone bother to look at the oil that is being poured into the filter?

I have a habit of looking at the oil streaming into the filter, keeps the oil flow directed where it is intended.

I also tear the foil top off of the gallon container and dispose of it.

Using a paint filter to pre-filter the oil into the oil filter is a good idea.

 

[WRStrong]

Am I missing something? wouldn't the same debris that gets poured into a pre-filled filter get poured right into the engine while filling the crankcase? I'm not trying to be a smart alek but the warning should apply whether you're filling the filter or the crankcase from the same bottle. If you were lucky the debris would get trapped in the filter quickly during circulation, but what if it made its way into a small passage before the filter caught it?



I will definitely check that I have pulled off all the aluminum seal and not dropped any pieces into the jug before filling the engine or filter next time.



Thanks

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

HBarlow good of you to write about this. It could be all the difference. I however will continue to prefill my filters as I have for years. I have also known of the tear-off seal possibly causing a problem for years and have guarded against that problem occurring. Starving a turbo bearing on start up for me is a big concern so I prefill. My 98 12v runs like new and while the small fleck of aluminum is a possibility I believe with reasonable care it can be avoided. It is up to each of us to do as we see fit in the care and feeding of our own Toys. The more info we have the better job we can do. Which I believe is the purpose of this forum REGARDS

 

[HBarlow]

Am I missing something? wouldn't the same debris that gets poured into a pre-filled filter get poured right into the engine while filling the crankcase? I'm not trying to be a smart alek but the warning should apply whether you're filling the filter or the crankcase from the same bottle. If you were lucky the debris would get trapped in the filter quickly during circulation, but what if it made its way into a small passage before the filter caught it?

I will definitely check that I have pulled off all the aluminum seal and not dropped any pieces into the jug before filling the engine or filter next time.

Thanks

Dumping a piece of aluminum seal in the oil fill opening wouldn't be a good idea either but the point of my original post is if the fresh oil is poured into the center of the new oil filter and the oil contains a bit of aluminum scrap it will be pumped directly into the engine AFTER or downstream of the filter. The center section of the filter is the output side.

 

[Grumpy John 4x4]

Pre fill

Been pre filling my filters, oil and fuel for my dodge no problems in 206,000 miles fleet guard only!

 

[PGAdams]

The FORUM Topic Title - in (2) words



* Common Sense *



Any Other Questions?

 

[Pavemen]

Am I missing something? wouldn't the same debris that gets poured into a pre-filled filter get poured right into the engine while filling the crankcase? I'm not trying to be a smart alek but the warning should apply whether you're filling the filter or the crankcase from the same bottle. If you were lucky the debris would get trapped in the filter quickly during circulation, but what if it made its way into a small passage before the filter caught it?



I will definitely check that I have pulled off all the aluminum seal and not dropped any pieces into the jug before filling the engine or filter next time.



Thanks

asked and answered on page 1

 

[WRStrong]

Yup. Found it on page 2. Sorry didn't read down far enough before jumping to more recent posts.

 

[Bill Stockard]

I have figured that if the farm equipment manufacturers have been putting the filters in ways the one cannot prefill and the engines last for 15K+ hours it cannot be to super important.

Yep, and when the machinery sets for a few hours, the filter drains and when it's started up the next time, the filter has to refill before the oil pressure comes back up. This occurs hundreds, if not thousands, of times and the engines last for thousands of hours of use.



Why do I know this? When I change the oil in my tractors with horizontal filters, I drain the crankcase in the evening and change the filter the next morning to prevent the mess of oil draining out of the filter down the side of the engine. After the engine sets all night there is no oil left in the filter.



Another reason why I don't pre-fill my oil filters and risk unfiltered oil going directly into the engine.



Bill

 

[RonD]

I always pre fill to the top, let it soak in and add a little more, then it soaks in and I install it. I use Shell Rotella 5w-40, there are no seals on the gallon jugs, Shell must be aware of the foil problem.

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

RonD I am in agreement with your way of doing it. The main purpose of pre filing is so that the the TURBO bearings are not without oil when the engine is started back up after an oil or filter change. I agree that MAYBE it would not hurt to not pre fill but I don't want turbo problems. Turbo work, I hear, is expensive. I would not attempt it myself. Maybe I could use it for an excuse to get a bigger better turbo. As it is my 98 12v is running great. Periodic oil samples sent to a Lab is a good idea and makes me feel better. I have no idea how they are able to arrive at the conclusions that they do but they are good at what they do and a good report does inspire confidence. REGARDS TO ALL

 

[Rudan]

Good advice, but I'm still prefilling... That's a whole quart of oil that has to fill that filter before the turbo gets fresh oil. Im not sure the turbo will have a sufficent enough oil film

on the bearings to protect it til the fresh reaches them.