Which RV?

[RUSSELL5000]

Looking forward to my upcoming retirement in February, I have found deciding exactly what I want more difficult than I would have thought. One thing I have firmly decided on is that I will be outside hiking (in the mountains, etc.) Unfortunately, my sets of replacement parts, patchwork of sutured tendons and ligaments, degenerative disks, and lumbar spinal stenosis has indicated to me clearly that carrying a pack and sleeping on the ground is something that I simply will no longer do. So, it looks like day hikes and retreat to a quality bed in some type of RV for me. This also means that campsites will often be shorter in length than pull-through sites in RV parks, so something at about 28 foot length.

So, I think of three possibilities:

(1) Truck and shorter travel trailer; e.g., something like an Arctic Fox toy hauler trailer. No slide, lots of water tank capacity, lots of cargo capacity, generator, solar panels, .... Can set up for forest service and bureau of land management roads and stay for a few days boondocking. Only downside I can think of is that the combination of truck and trailer will be much longer; trailer could be shorter than 28 foot, but will be 40 feet long (or more) when truck and trailer are together.

(2) Class C. Can tow a small all wheel drive vehicle (I am not looking to be able to do any serious offroad travel), will be short enough, and can have generator and solar panels. The water tank capacity is more limited and cargo capacity is more limited. It also seems that tires are at the very edge of requirements, which can easily be cured with 17.5" wheels and tires (and some $$!). May also require some suspension modifications (and more $$!).

(3) Class A. Can tow a small all wheel drive vehicle (I am not looking to be able to do any serious offroad travel), will be short enough, and can have generator and solar panels. The water tank capacity is more limited than the toy hauler travel trailer but better than class C; same holds for cargo capacity. Tires seem more adequate with 19.5" wheels and tires stock. May also require some suspension modifications (more $$, and the body work on class A seem to go very low for some reason to me).

For some unknown reason my wife prefers motorhome rather than truck and trailer. She is not adamant, however, and I think we can still look at all of the pros and cons.

OK, looking for opinions and what I may be missing in this analysis.

Thanks!!!

 

[AEdelheit]

I have a 22' Lance toy hauler and do a lot of dispersed camping on FS and BLM land, have not had an issue getting into places though have a few times walked or biked certain areas to find the best route but have always found something that works. Not being able to move the motorhome without packing everything up is a deal breaker for me as we are always leaving the trailer and going places, if you have to tow a car behind the motorhome then length could still become an issue.

My buddy just got a 2021' Dynamax Isata 5 on a 5500 Chassis with 4wd, its super nice but would still be hard to get into places and very hard to take large items such as Kayaks with you when traveling.

 

[endoscott]

Our small 5th wheel (in the picture) is 28 foot tip to tail, Arctic Fox 2008 MY, 24-5N model, very manageable rig. Newer ones are mostly longer, heavier, and wider. Something this size allows you to get in MOST campgrounds, not all, but most of them. It's very nice to just disconnect truck and then drive to trailheads, we have had this truck on a couple of really hairy 4WD trails where we didn't belong, but anyway, these trucks get you to the trailhead pretty well even if you don't want to go much off road. And you can bring boats/kayaks/SUP etc. on an over the cab rack like in the picture. Our boat is 12 feet, could even do a 14 footer. Bought the boat rack in Canada a few years ago. Small winch on the front for loading the boat but lighter things like kayaks you can load easy by hand with 2 people. And it's a VERY comfortable camping trailer that your wife would probably cotton to. Not sure how long the entire rig is, probably close to 50 feet truck and trailer.

RVs are like boats, hard to find just one that meets all your specs.

 

[Tuesdak]

One more engine and drivetrain to maintain with a motorized RV including insurance and plates.

Our 5th wheel is 27' (Arctic Fox 2003 27-5L. A Unicorn travel trailer with a factory option generator.) and works well in the smaller length limited National Parks. We haven't had to disconnect and park the truck elsewhere or beside the 5er in any site yet. We have dropped the 5er in a campsite and gone places in the pickup... New the same model is taller, wider, and 29' 9" long.

Truck was 22' and 5er RV is 27' but total length is 8' less because 4' of the truck is under 4' of the RV. 49' - 4 - 4 = 41' (My new truck is longer and I haven't measured it yet.)

You give up recliners (couch) and other stuff to go smaller than 25-27' it appears. IMO Anything smaller is equivalent to a slide in truck camper.

Why no slides? It really opens the RV up for room. Unless you are going with a long life Tin Can or Fiberglass RV there is no reason to avoid them. Yes they are more maintenance as is the entire RV, but, the room they add tends to make wife happy.

Toy hauler? If you have a toy to haul otherwise you give up a LOT of comfort for the garage.

 

[SSage]

I have a small 5th wheel too, simple layout with no slides. Mine is 29'-2" long and its a toy hauler. It has a rear queen bed that comes down from the ceiling for guests. Plus the jack knife sofas turn into beds. Queen bed up front, full standing headroom everywhere. I've had travel trailers, but I didn't like the cave feeling, not enough headroom. I went up to a 44' GN toy hauler once, it limited where I could go too much. I like the little one I have now the best. I don't camp in cold weather much, so I didn't bother getting a four season rig like last time. But, I did like my KZ toy hauler with the insulated belly and the double pane windows when I was full timing.

KZ doesn't make an under 30' model anymore though, but in the past they had the 265 Sportsman and you could get it loaded out nice for year round use. New ones are 32' and up now.

The under 30' 5th wheel length is fairly easy to manage. Less weight, not much rear overhang so I can pull it up and down dirt roads. Dry camping sites in the forests is easy with the built in gas generator and I have a 60 gallon water tank, so far its been enough for my use. With no slides I get in tighter sites, less to go wrong too. I like to have the whole trailer usable on the road, I don't miss having three slides. I spend most of my time outside anyway. I stop for naps or overnight in parking lots sometimes, lowes, cracker barrel, walmart etc. Places where I don't want to have slides out. No slides means nothing blocked, everything accessible. I see so many trailers that have no access to the fridge or the bed room has blocked drawers, blocked closets with the slides in. There are some really restrictive designs out there.

I like the Arctic Fox 27-5L too, if I didn't need a toy hauler I would probably go that direction. I've owned one Arctic Fox travel trailer and really liked it. I just prefer toy hauler 5th wheels now for the head room, sleeping capacity, gasoline generator built in and overall use of length. I have a motorcycle, but I have grown fond of the open toy hauler layout for trips with no "toys" and a large dog. Its great for dogs, no carpet in the main area if you want. I do have a full carpet that sets over the vinyl floor though, it came custom cut and fits nice. I can lower the rear ramp and use it as a patio or just use it for an easy entry. Many of the toy haulers have a screen wall when the ramp is open, or you can easily add one. Put folding lounge chairs on the ramp or put a handrail enclosure around it and keep the dog or young kids on the ramp when the weather is pleasant.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Thanks for the insights. I am going to do some web surfing and research now.

 

[Ozymandias]

Check these out > https://www.tigervehicles.com/

Very long lasting vehicle, goes anywhere like my setup and they keep their value incredibly high if you go to sell it one day.
If you love hiking and boondocking you want to have a setup as small as possible, so you can go places unknown before.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Ozy,

I believe everything you said makes sense, and you are most likely right.

Did not fly with the wife. "Nope, no way, not doing it."

So, have to give up capability for acceptability with spouse.

 

[endoscott]

Man those are super-cool, but man are they spendy!

 

[Jim W]

My wife too wanted a motor home but I convinced here that with a motor home you need to tow a vehicle. An that would be extra dollars that we could use for traveling since we already had the truck. Since we have a tow vehicle already it was simply to purchase a trailer.

I would look into a smaller Artic Fox 5ER for your needs since these are well built and available out west easier to locate. Buy something slightly used to see if this will meet your needs first.

That is what we did and we are now on our third 5ER but they keep getting bigger every time we bought one. Now we only travel to RV resorts and go gamping (camping) instead. But we still hike and do sight seeing with the truck.

On a side note my neighbor purchased a small class C motor home. By the time he was done with a new vehicle to be towed and the tow bars plus the new class c set up for Boondocking it cost hike twice as much as my truck and trailer did. An my last trailer was not cheap either.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

As a number of folks have mentioned looked at Artic Fox (Northwood Mfg). I see some used ones in recent years on the RV sales websites. Basically, 30 feet long so would not hot all public lands campsites but a great many that I have seen.

https://northwoodmfg.com/arctic-fox-2/arctic-fox-27-5l/

I also like the Artic Fox toy hauler, which is shorter at 25 feet or comparable in length at 30 feet. One thing I like is the the cargo door becomes a patio deck. While I like it, my wife is not impressed.

https://northwoodmfg.com/toy-haulers/desert-fox/desert-fox-21sw/ or https://northwoodmfg.com/toy-haulers/desert-fox/desert-fox-24as/

Outdoors RV has this offering, again in the 30 foot length range. Has the cargo door patio offering? Comes fairly well set up for off-grid: https://www.outdoorsrvmfg.com/trail-series-24trx

I did see a Lance toy hauler; note that it is 31 feet in length: https://www.lancetrailersdirect.com/toy-haulers/2612

Anybody aware of other possibilities?

I just noticed; maybe I should have posted this in the towing, hauling, and rv forum. Oh well.


The next topic: if a trailer then need a truck. Stay with the 2012 crew cab 2500 or shift to a recent model year or new 3500?

Thanks!!

 

[AH64ID]

Anything from the Nash Family of campers is where I would look. Arctic Fox and ORV being the main ones for toy haulers.

 

[AEdelheit]

Lance only made Toy haulers for a few years so they are hard to find though that model would be considered 26' as you measure bumper pull trailers by the box not overall usually so keep that in mind if you talk about a 25' Artic Fox is that the box size or ball to rear bumper ?

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Here are some specs to get the discussion started on keeping current truck or replacing. These are from Ram bodybuilder pdfs.

This is my current truck, and specs if it was a 3500 rather than 2500 in the second column.

2012 Ram 2500 Crew Cab Short Bed
Auto Trans 68RFE, 3.73 Rear Axle Ratio
58K Miles 3500 SRW
GVWR 9,600 10,100
Payload 2,300 2,880
GAWR Front 5,500 5,500
GAWR Rear 6,010 6,200
GCWR 20,000 21,000
Max Trailer 12,550 13,650

This is what I would be thinking of as a replacement (something like this):

2020 Ram 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed SRW
Auto Trans 68RFE, 3.73 Rear Axle Ratio
Regular 6.7L Engine (not high output)

GVWR 11,800
Payload 4,550
GAWR Front 6,000
GAWR Rear 7,000
GCWR 28,300
Max Trailer 20,580

Here are some possible trailers:

Trailer GVWR Pin/Tongue
Weight

Artic Fox 275L Fifth Wheel 13,600 2,720
Artic Fox 21SW Toy Hauler TT 11,300 1,413
Artic Fox 24SW Toy Hauler TT 12,800 1,600
Outdoors RV 24TRX Toy Hauler TT 13,000 1,625
Outdoors RV 27TRX Toy Hauler TT 14,000 1,750
Lance 2612 Toy Hauler TT 10,500 1,313

It looks to me like I need to stay in the 10K trailer range for my current truck.

One things that is unclear to me is whether the higher output engine/Aisen transmission is worth the additional cost.

That is strictly a dollar question, not capability.

Thanks.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

The designations on trailers are confusing; at least to me. When I have mentioned lengths it is the overall length as stated in the manufacturer spec. So, the Lance 2612 toy hauler trailer has an overall length of 31'11'' (per the specs). The specs say a floor length of 26'6''; I assume that is where the 2612 names comes from.

I put a tape measure on my existing Jayco; did three times on nice smooth surface to make sure. It is two inches longer than the specs from the tip of the ball hitch to the rear bumper tube. Maybe the specs are from the middle of the ball hitch? Does not matter to anything, really.

 

[Dl5treez]

Not a full timer and just a young buck still but my 1.5 cents.

When I did tramp powerline work I was living pretty much 10 months of the year in an Arctic Fox 25Y or a Desert Fox 24-something. Forget now, but at any rate I was able to tow it with my work rig so I stayed bumper pull. A short 5th wheel would be cool but bumper pulls tow better out in the boonies. Smaller toy haulers are great for their purpose BUT the spartan living quarters can get old after awhile especially if you don’t like the back deck being a screened in porch all the time, since there is no garage to close off the space.

We worked a lot off the beaten path and many of our “RV parks” impromptu built things where you needed 4 lo to get into.

Perhaps it’s bias but the only trailers I even look at anymore are Northwood brands—Nash, Arctic/Desert Fox, “Outdoors RV”—, Lance, or Grand Design/Winnebago.

I tried the pickup and camper route, it’s great for a bit but climbing in and out all the time, no bueno. Especially with compromised ligaments, a hunting buddy took a tumble out of his and ended his elk hunting trip on day 2.

Motorhome with a tow vehicle makes good sense if one plans on parking at a more established campground and exploring in a vehicle. A 3/4-1 ton diesel truck isn’t the most fun off road exploring the deserts and jungles. Maybe one with fancy suspension but then it’s going to be a compromise in other areas and a still huge off road. A small class A will be easier to maintain and maneuver than a C and towing something like a little 4Runner or Wrangler or evening a Suzuki Sidekick type rig can open up lots of places to go visit.

I’m 44 and currently have a 2007 cc lb and a the Fox 25Y. I like the 25Y, the big picture window in the back is cool, the gf likes it BUT...when it’s cold outside it’s a big chilly spot.

I miss my toy hauler for hauling toys to the dunes or to the ORV parks and have been looking at another Desert Fox for that purpose however I’m also really considering biting the bullet on a 4wd motorhome and getting a trailer to haul the toys in instead. Everything is a compromise with giving up something for something else and if I were more full time than a few trips a year, I think a motorhome with a tow rig or a trailer full of toys is better for me than a truck and trailer.

 

[endoscott]

Agree with Northwood and Lance, have had both, Lance has really good customer service even for parts on a 15 year old camper. The AF 5th wheels and trailers are built on a very stout frame. You don't see many for sale used-they probably go by word of mouth most of the time. Occasionally see a nice used one listed on the NROA website, great source of info for Northwood products by OWNERS, not the company people. https://www.nroa2003.com/forum/.
Randall Eaton puts out a "Travel Trailer and 5th Wheel Guide" that assesses quality of build on every brand and gives a history of each company. It's really good if you are about to spend $60 or $70K on a new trailer. Costs around $50 I think.

 

[SSage]

It depends on use. If your staying outdoors mostly you don't really need a luxury house though and all the weight. I like to kayak and ride bicycles, having the toy hauler lets me haul things inside. No racks, no dirty stuff from road grime. If I was an average height guy I would probably have a TT/TH though. You can get a TT in tighter spots, no issues with bed rail clearance when the roads or parking spot are challenging.

I lived in my Arctic Fox TT for a few years. Really only had one issue with it, kept getting a slide leak in heavy rain, it only had one slide on the drivers side. A slide topper took care of the issue mostly. I've had that same issue with a higher end KZ product too.

The Cedar Creek / Day Dreamer slides never leaked at all, go figure... a Forest River product was actually problem free. I did like the rear living room with the garden windows for full timing. But I really don't spend much time in a recliner. My elderly parents preferred the rear living room with lots of windows. They spend more time inside. I rather have a rear ramp and the rubber floor for hauling stuff. I never desired an outdoor kitchen, a television or stereo speakers outside either.

Its a bad time to buy used price wise, but there are advantages even now. You can get a unit thats had the bugs worked out, most will have plumbing upgrades, vent fan's with covers, suspension upgrades maybe. They may already have solar panels installed with a good battery bank.

The smooth fiberglass units can have delam issues. Especially this new production coming out now. Mostly its the light weight models I've seen with problems. I just saw a 20 year old Arctic Fox 25S, smooth sides still looked solid, nothing but the vinyl peeling. My friend has an old Cedar Creek, its still solid but it is kept under an open shed. When you buy something older you get an idea of the build quality by default.

My little 29' 5th wheel TH is just a vacation rig for me, I wouldn't want to live in this one. It does have good ground clearance, haven't scraped at all surprisingly. I haven't weighed it, but it feels heavier than the sticker says. I'm guessing its around 9k. It squats the old 2003 Ram DRW about two inches. No air needed in the Firestone bags! It almost level the truck, I have a Ranch Hand bumper on the front though.

Condition is everything, water damage is a threat even on a brand new unit. Close inspection is critical. On used units you want to see signs of continuous maintenance. You want to see things caulked, the factories use butyl tape mostly and it dries out with age.

With a 2500 if I wanted a TH I would look at the "bumper pull" models unless it was small like mine. Toy Haulers have high pin or ball weights. On a 2500 thats an issue when the pin is 2300 or something. I rather have an equalizer weight distribution hitch with a kinda heavy 32 or 34' toy hauler pulled by a SRW. Buts thats me, I don't like pushing the rear axle ratings at all. I've done it with my big triple axle, just don't want to do it again.

 

[Tuesdak]

The designations on trailers are confusing; at least to me. When I have mentioned lengths it is the overall length as stated in the manufacturer spec. So, the Lance 2612 toy hauler trailer has an overall length of 31'11'' (per the specs). The specs say a floor length of 26'6''; I assume that is where the 2612 names comes from.

I put a tape measure on my existing Jayco; did three times on nice smooth surface to make sure. It is two inches longer than the specs from the tip of the ball hitch to the rear bumper tube. Maybe the specs are from the middle of the ball hitch? Does not matter to anything, really.

Model numbers mean nothing as far as a rule on lengths. The 27-5L Used to be 27' hitch tip to bumper with ~25' inside in 2003. It's grown. Bumper to hitch tip should be what OEM's give you for total length, but, it can change from year to year.

Campgrounds are stated tip of hitch to the end of the bike rack off the bumper... Total length of the campground space without sticking out into the road. Another limit to length is turning radius around the trees into a spot: like at the Grand Canyon for smaller spaces. Side roads off the main road with a narrow line of battered trees between the road and the site. Truck drivers, you, and I may have the skill to squeak around trees into a smaller space, but, the Park Ranger, who cares about the trees NOT your RV, may not let you as they have watched countless RV's smack trees, get stuck, block the road, and have to back out. I walked an available (labeled shorter) space with the Park Ranger (North or South Rim I forget) to try and stay a couple more days and decided not to try clearing the trees on a turn to even try it. The Park Ranger that time did offer to let me try it and even help as a 3rd set of eyes. YMMV. Don't be afraid to walk a site, or the road going there, and turn it down. Always "Look UP!" and ask your help to do so several times while parking the RV.

Tag trailers are longer due to the hitch than 5th wheels for the same interior space. 5ers can turn tighter, but, yeah hitting the bed rail can happen. Moving parked cars I took a spot that a travel trailer had to "pull through" to use a spot on the other side in what turned out to be a LTR park in CA with a few open spaces for short RV stays. The tag trailer RV that arrived before I did would not have been able to use either spot without pulling through. Roads were too narrow, a block wall on the other side of the road, street light poles, 90 degree vs. angles lots, and a workout with the NV5600. I could not even extend the main slide all the way. That place is #2 on my S&%$# list however the trip wasn't a vacation. #1 on the list is the same area and would make you rent the entire weekend as they didn't want people leaving Saturday night like I had too...

This 5er is 27' 10" and a full size queen. Not sure if it's 4 seasons rated. Useless with the slide in to get to the bathroom looks like.
https://northwoodmfg.com/5th-wheels/fox-mountain/fox-mountain-235rls-2/

 

[SSage]

My old 295 model 5th wheel is close in length to the model number. It is 29'-2" long surprisingly. My 41KG was 44'-4" overall depending on how tight I pulled the measuring tape.

The main thing I miss with my long trailers is storage. My 41KG had a large pass through storage compartment up front like most larger 5th wheels that would swallow up a gas grill, chairs, big outdoor rugs, lights, a screen room, folding table or whatever. The big storage space under the front over hang with the generator still swallowed up lots of hoses, my water filters and power cords. The little 29' has me storing trailer stuff in the truck's tool box and I leave lots of stuff at home now. But its much easier to maneuver, I really enjoy being able to get into more areas with the shorter camper.