Camper upgrade to 19.5" wheels and G rated tires

[lmabey]

I have a 2011 2500, that has hit a bump and lost part of the exhaust crap, that I really like. But i now have a camper which loaded and wet will be about 4,000lbs. I have weighed it and dry it is at 3200lbs I am facing the facts that i need to upgrade my rims and tires to support the weight along with some suspension upgrades if I keep the current truck. From all the reading i have done it seems the answer by those who are in my situation is go with a dually dummie and i am evaluating that option. It will just depend on the cost of a new dually vs upgrading my 2011. I currently have airbags and will be adding supersprings also if i keep the truck and of course new shocks at some point and perhaps a sway bar. I will also be towing up to a 2000lb boat with 360 lbs tongue weight.

Just wondering from those of you that have upgraded to 19.5 wheels and the heavy duty tires how have you liked it and
what would you recommend. This truck is mainly my RV and wood hauler not a daily driver so It will be used mostly with a load. If you have done both I would especially like to here your thoughts.

2017 update, so I have now upgraded to the 19.5 wheels and g rated tires, added bilstien shocks, and a big wig sway bar in that order after air bags and overloads. What My experience tells me is airbags make sway worse unless you have springs
capable of resisting the load. The tires were a huge change, shocks helped and the sway bar was the cream on top. This
past summer I did put the stock tires back on briefly to turn off the TPMS and I was shocked at how bad the sway was. The stock e-rated tires contributed to the sway even with the sway bar, wouldn't have thought there was that much flex in the
sidewalls. In my experience you've got to get rid of the weak sidewalls if you want to minimize sway. A sway bar won't make up for the tires. I can't say from experience but I would have to think my current setup may be more stable sway wise than a DRW with e-rated tires. That said if there is another truck in my future it may very well be a 4500 dually with 19.5 g rated
tires if the truck camper stays around. Unloaded it does ride rough but it is a dream loaded.

 

[Wertles]

I upgraded my old 3500 SRW to 19.5 wheel/tire combo when I got a larger 5th wheel and couldn't have been happier. It transformed the truck completely. It gave 90%of the stability of a dually while keeping the benefits of a SRW. I also added PAC brake air bags which were more than enough to keep the truck level. I did trade the truck for a dually this time as it suited my needs better but not because the SRW did not do the job adequately or that I felt it was unsafe. My pin weight was 4000# give or take what the wife was packing. I have since sold the wheels and the new owner is in love with them just as much as I was. Hope that helps.

 

[STEVEBROOKS]

I'm the new owner of the 19.5 inch wheels/tires that Wertles referenced, above. I tow a heavy toyhauler 5th wheel, and the difference the 19.5 tires/wheels makes in stability and ride quality is as he said. I highly recommend this upgrade for those who need it.

Steve

 

[NC Hauler]

You will be pushing the rear axle weight rating of the 11 2500...moving up to a higher weight range tire would help "IF" you don't exceed the axles weight rating...air bags level the load, spring upgrade would help, but again, the axle will be the weak link that you don't want to exceed..Need to know what it is rated at....best bet, with money you would have to spend along with STILL not knowing how it would run, would be to upgrade to a dually, most who have slide in campers of that weight are using 3500 SRW or 3500 DRW trucks... I would tend to err to the side of safety in cases like this.

 

[lmabey]

You will be pushing the rear axle weight rating of the 11 2500...moving up to a higher weight range tire would help "IF" you don't exceed the axles weight rating...air bags level the load, spring upgrade would help, but again, the axle will be the weak link that you don't want to exceed..Need to know what it is rated at....best bet, with money you would have to spend along with STILL not knowing how it would run, would be to upgrade to a dually, most who have slide in campers of that weight are using 3500 SRW or 3500 DRW trucks... I would tend to err to the side of safety in cases like this.

My impression has been that the axles are really the same between the 2500 and 3500 SRW and Perhaps the 3500 DRW and that it is really just the extra tires on the dually that make up the difference. Now this may not be the case. I know that in a recent trip to the dealership the 2014-15 SRW 3500 has a suspension more akin to my 2500 a single set of leafsprings of similar size with no overloads now like the SRW's used to have. And in 2011 the payload rating difference between the 2500 and 3500 SRW was only 500 lbs. Indicating to me its a tire issue. My rear axle rating on the 2500 is 6,000, with the camper dry I am at 6260 so slightly over. Wet and loaded I anticpate being at or near 7000, and the tires added up are only rated for 3,000 each. The rear axle in 2011 in the 3500 DRW was 9350. So I figure the tires and wheels are way weaker than the axle but I am all up for being educated.

I understand that a dually is the way to go and am evaluating the cost of doing so vs. upgrading my existing truck and the safety factor of the dually.
Thanks all for your thoughts.
Lee

 

[Wertles]

The axles are the same between a 2500 SRW and 3500 SRW. The only difference (in older models) was in the leaf packs between a 2500 and 3500. Now, there are more differences in suspension, ie. air ride, as more options are available. Adding air bags or additional springs essentially converts a 2500 to 3500. There will be some who flame me for that statement but iirc, in 2011, the only difference between a 2500 and 3500 SRW was the springs in the back all other things being equal. Will there be a sticker that states your truck is capable of hauling a bigger load? Nope. Just like there was no sticker with aftermarket exhaust brakes that would state that you could stop a heavier trailer safer than you could before the exhaust brake, but we all know that was what they were for and could do. Adding rear suspension either through bags or springs combined with 19.5 wheels and tires will make for a VERY capable truck. It would be better than a stock 2011 3500 SRW in my opinion.

 

[seafish]

IMO, load capacity is NOT the only reason to select a DRW over a SRW for towing-- the wider stance of a DRW is of major importance for load stability while towing heavy loads. I have driven both over the years and for my daily driver I obviously much prefer a SRW 2500, but if I was to be towing often and heavy, there is not doubt that I would rather use a DRW truck to do so.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Band-Aids are a wast of time and money. Get the right truck for the job!

 

[AH64ID]

19.5's are a great addition to a SRW truck. As it has been mentioned they give most of the DRW stability and load carrying capacity without the DRW width. The DRW width may or may not be an issue depending on use.

The axle used on a 2500 is the same as a 3500 and a 3500DRW, the axle itself is rated for 10,912lbs while the DRW has a limit of 9,350lbs in 2011. A set of Vision Type 81's have a load rating of 4,500lbs/ea, for 9,000 in tire/wheel rating on the rear axle. That's enough for 99.9% of the people out there. The suspension is a limiting factor, but not to the level that would concern you with that camper.

Airbags are a great way to go, but I wouldn't bother with the super springs as they bend and stress springs in a way that they where not intended for. If you need more than airbags can provide then you are too heavy for a truck under a 4500.

A swaybar would be a much better investment as I know folks with similar weight TC's with stock DRW's and they mention sway as their biggest issue.

I run up to about 7,500lbs on the rear axle with ~1,200lbs above the bed rails and get less sway with 19.5's than 6K lbs on the rear axle and OEM LRE's with no weight above the bed rails. By less sway I mean NO sway.. that's with LRG 19.5's, Bilstien Shocks, and the standard hellwig swaybar.

Band-Aids are a wast of time and money. Get the right truck for the job!

You continually post this on this site and others.. but it's not a band-aid. Not everything has to revolve around a truck with hips. In terms of the DRW you are starting to sound like HBarlow.

Spending a bunch of money on a truck that isn't needed is a waste of money as well.

The width of a DRW doesn't have nearly as much to do with the stability, since the pivot point on a DRW or SRW is the same. The flex is coming from the tires, so fix the issue. A set of LRG tires will not deflect like LRE tires, even 2 of them at 65psi. A DRW with the same track width as a SRW would have nearly all of the stability of the wider one, which points to tires. Width does add to stability, I'm not saying it doesn't, but it doesn't add as much as DRW folks want everyone to believe. I have had my rear axle over 8Klbs and the tires didn't budge, and I wasn't even able to get them to the rated 110psi for the short dirt road trip.

DRW's are great for when they work, but they don't work for many people. Considering that a DRW is just a SRW with 2 extra tires how is that less off a "band-aid" than a set of medium duty tires? We are talking about the same frame and running gear.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I'll put my modified SRW up against a stock DRW any day and if you have to mod a DRW for the load then it's too much of a load for a 3500 (aside from a sway-bar for large TC's). Yes a SRW does have to be modified, but it remains a SRW and keeps all of the benefits that go with it such as rain/dirt/winter traction, tight road driving, getting things in/out of the bed, adjusting tire pressure, etc... The only time a DRW has more traction is on dry pavement and then traction isn't an issue.

I also don't buy into the blowout bit.. I'll take a rear blowout any day over a front blowout, and there isn't a spare installed up front.

Based on your "right truck for the job" comment is there a reason you didn't get a bigger truck? I have read about your 4,500lb pin-weight but your truck doesn't have the payload for that. You also don't have the GCWR for your 28K lbs combined, so again why didn't you get a bigger truck?

You didn't get the "right truck for the job" so why preach it??? How does your Band-Aid truck work for you?

 

[Cummins12V98]

Sorry you feel like you have to defend what you do. My comments are usually directed to people with a 2500 and then decide to get a huge RV add bags then put us all in danger.

Exact truck I have with 4:10's is rated for 30K combined. I see no difference in safety, it's wear and tear that may be an issue. Don't think so tho. I am under on RAWR and way under on tire capacity. 4 tires do make a huge difference in stability from the contact points.

"How does your Band-Aid truck work for you?" Works great in ALL CONDITIONS without BandAids!

Funny it was the sky was falling around the TDR when I told of my truck and RV combo. HBarlow was the biggest critic. I was planning to swap to 4:10's but it performed well enough to not warrant the change even tho Dave Smith gave me a killer deal at $1,500 for both axles. If the A holes at Chrysler don't come out with the rear air suspension soon I may keep the truck and swap to that 4:10's to make you happy!

I could have spent a bunch of money on my 98 12V 2500 4X4 Like 19.5's, bags and who knows what else but I knew it was not a safe thing to do even tho it had plenty of power and a DTT trans with shafts.

 

[AH64ID]

What is the big difference in a properly setup 2500? It's the same frame and axles as your DRW, so it can handle the weight. The tires are the limit on a SRW, where the hardware is your limit. A properly setup 2500 or 3500 SRW is generally staying within the highest limits the components received on any platform, so really not exceeding anything. Your use of your DRW exceeds the highest GVWR limit setup for that frame, so which one is worse?

Unless your sliding the contact point isn't where the stability is lost, it's between the tread and lug nuts.

The truck is a band-aid, as it's not rated for what you do. The proper setup is a larger truck, therefor a band-aid. That's how you describe a SRW with 19.5's, so how is it different?

There are most certainly DRW applications, just not everything has to be a DRW for heavy loads.

4.10's will increase GCWR but do nothing for GVWR, which you are over as well.

I personally don't see anything wrong with your setup, my point is that your calling others out for not having enough truck when you don't have "enough truck" either.. hello Kettle... you have a call from Pot.

We aren't talking about modding a Ranger or 1500, but a very underrated and under-tired 2500.

 

[Cummins12V98]

"Band-Aids are a wast of time and money. Get the right truck for the job!"

I was not being critical of what he has I gave my opinion that doing all these things are a waste of money and time. Fact is all those things that can be done to make something work better won't be factored in at all when selling the truck. So my opinion is to sell what you have buy what will do the job right out of the box. He asked and I gave my opinion.

I am sure what you have done works but a lot of people out there are not mechanically inclined and installing bags to make a 2500 sit level towing a 40' 16K 5er for example is as I call it a Band-Aid!

 

[NC Hauler]

What is the big difference in a properly setup 2500? It's the same frame and axles as your DRW, so it can handle the weight. The tires are the limit on a SRW, where the hardware is your limit. A properly setup 2500 or 3500 SRW is generally staying within the highest limits the components received on any platform, so really not exceeding anything. Your use of your DRW exceeds the highest GVWR limit setup for that frame, so which one is worse?

Unless your sliding the contact point isn't where the stability is lost, it's between the tread and lug nuts.

The truck is a band-aid, as it's not rated for what you do. The proper setup is a larger truck, therefor a band-aid. That's how you describe a SRW with 19.5's, so how is it different?

There are most certainly DRW applications, just not everything has to be a DRW for heavy loads.

4.10's will increase GCWR but do nothing for GVWR, which you are over as well.

I personally don't see anything wrong with your setup, my point is that your calling others out for not having enough truck when you don't have "enough truck" either.. hello Kettle... you have a call from Pot.

We aren't talking about modding a Ranger or 1500, but a very underrated and under-tired 2500.

The 2500 DOES NOT have the same axle as the 3500 DRW truck..The 3500 has an AAM axle rated at 11,800#. The 2500 RAWR of 6500# has a max weight rating of about 8500#..The spring packs are also a huge difference, thus another reason there is a difference in GVWR, ie 14,000# for a 3500 DRW as opposed to only 10,000# for the 2500, so you left out the spring packs...look under a 3500 Dually and then the 2500, you'll see a difference in the axle and the spring pack, which are quite obvious...AND both trucks come with "E" rated tires, (dually just has 4 of them).

It'll take a lot of work to "make" the 2500 handle the payload that a 3500 dually can handle...just saying,.....so I really wouldn't compare the two trucks, it's not fair for the 2500.

I have a pin weight of 3360#, not only am I well under my trucks RAWR of 9750# (based on "E" rated tires, aired to 65 psi each), but I'm about 1200# under my trucks GVWR. and with the 4:10 and a combined weight of a little over 26,000#, I'm about 5 ton under my trucks GCWR (4:10).

Best thing to do is drop 4,000# in the bed of the truck and get back to us and tell us how well it does...Sorry, but I believe that my truck would handle it much easier than your 2500 would....but we're talking about how easy it'll be on the trucks suspension, just trying to haul it around and the 2500 with 68RFE has 370HP and 800ftlb of TQ, but power isn't all there is to the equation...brakes, suspension, spring packs are also a part of it...you'll be ok, but upgrading to 19.5" wheels and "G" rated tires doesn't add a spring packs or higher axle rating...and the 2500 axle ISN'T the same as is on the 3500 Dually,

 

[AH64ID]

It sounds like you are thinking about the 2500 gas rear axle. ALL diesels from 04-12 have the same rear axle, and since the OP has a 2011 its the SAME axle. The axle used in 2013+ on the 2500 and 3500 SRW is the same as used on the DRW from 03-12, which carried a Dodge/Ram 9,350 lb rating.

The AAM 11.5" axle is found behind all 04-12 diesels, and most 03 diesels as well. In 2013 the DRW gained the 300mm rear AAM (11.8"), however there is a lot of speculation, since nothing official is out from AAM and Dodge uses a lower rating, on what the axle rating actually is. There is a VERY strong chance that the AAM 300mm is the same housing as the 11.5", but with a larger ring gear for the added torque and tow rating of the 13+ DRW's.

In short the AAM 11.5, in 2011, is used on ALL diesels from 2500 thru 3500 DRW and it's rating from AAM is 10,912lbs in a SRW or DRW configuration. There are 2 differences between the DRW and SRW model, one is the width, and the other is the outer wheel bearing on the DRW is larger. The larger bearing does not change the load rating, it just supports the heavier/wider tire/wheel combo better.

The 14K lb GVWR is a 2013+ thing, we are talking about a 2011 in this thread.

The spring pack is not a HUGE difference. The spring packs are only rated for ~7% more weight per inch (2800lbs vs 2600lbs), plus the overloads which are rated at 1300 lbs/in. A pair of 5000lb airbags will have no issues compensating for both minor differences when we are talking a RAW of around 7,500lbs.

What is the brake difference you speak of? The only time a DRW gets better brakes (brakes are actually the same, difference is hydroboost) than a SRW is when both applications are gas engines, so it's not relevant.

Did you really say that 4K lbs in the bed will be a workout for a 370/800 motor?? I mean really!!! Not to mention that's a 13+ thing.. again thread is about a 2011, so lets stay on topic.

I have had over 4K lbs in the bed of my 3500 SRW which is the same as the OP's 2500 plus the overloads.. but I have airbags and the overloads are not touching the perches so I may as well not even have them. It handles better than a stock DRW does of the same generation as my truck, and the OP's truck, with the same load.

Where did you find an 11,800# rating for the new axle? I have spent plenty of time looking and can't find anything on it. My previous contacts at AAM don't work anymore.

 

[NC Hauler]

I called AAM about 9 months ago and spend about 3 months trying to get an answer and finally got the information from a service engineer...but guess he could have lied...

Never said that 4,000# would task the engine..re-read and comprehend, I gave HP and TQ, same as a 3500 DRW 3500 with 68RFE, power wouldn't be a problem, I stated power isn't ALL of equation......I said the SUSPENSION might very well be put to task to handle 4,000# of payload, plus a full fuel tank, plus the occupants, plus supplies in the slide in camper, plus the occupants and anything else that would be hauled.

airbags level a load, don't add one ounce of GVW, but it appears you know far more than I do, so you win, but I wouldn't recommend someone put a 4,000# slide in camper in the bed of their 2500 and, in all good conscience, feel good about telling them that, As I've gotten older, I tend to err to the side of safety and not abusing a truck I put a chunk of money in...but again, it appears you're the expert in this field..

 

[AH64ID]

I called AAM about 9 months ago and spend about 3 months trying to get an answer and finally got the information from a service engineer...but guess he could have lied...

My information is also from a service engineer at AAM. So what are you saying they told you is different? The 2500 vs 3500?? That's a well known fact that they share the same axle in 04-12 (aside from the width and outer bearing, but per AAM its the same axle, same ratings).

AAM is a PITA to get a hold of, but once you do the information is generally good and they seem happy to share. The guy I talked with gave me all the differences between the GM AAM 11.5 and the Dodge AAM 11.5, even thou they are the "same axle" they do have a few differences such as bearing life expectancy and axle tube size.

If what they gave you is specific to the AAM 11.8" axle that's great, it's good to get some info on it but it's not relevant to this discussion. Not to derail to a different topic, but did they give you the input torque rating for it?

Never said that 4,000# would task the engine..re-read and comprehend, I gave HP and TQ, same as a 3500 DRW 3500 with 68RFE, power wouldn't be a problem, I stated power isn't ALL of equation......I said the SUSPENSION might very well be put to task to handle 4,000# of payload, plus a full fuel tank, plus the occupants, plus supplies in the slide in camper, plus the occupants and anything else that would be hauled.

It's not a very clear statement, which is why I asked what you meant.

airbags level a load, don't add one ounce of GVW, but it appears you know far more than I do, so you win, but I wouldn't recommend someone put a 4,000# slide in camper in the bed of their 2500 and, in all good conscience, feel good about telling them that, As I've gotten older, I tend to err to the side of safety and not abusing a truck I put a chunk of money in...but again, it appears you're the expert in this field..

If the frame is the same as a 3500 DRW, the axle is the same, the main suspension mounting points are the same, the brakes are the same, the front suspension and axle are the same, and the tires are no longer the limit then why is it a safety issue? Everything is within the ratings it has been given in one platform or another, with the same components. The frame the OP has received a max GVWR of 12,300lbs from the manufacturer. The frame could have been used on a 2500 gas truck or a 3500 drw. Since RAWR + FAWR are greater than GVWR on all the HD Ram's what is the limit? We know the frame can handle the weight a DRW can haul, and we know the other components can as well. Many folks even exceed the DRW GVWR, such as Cummins12V98 and most big TC owners, but that's a hard one to justify when there isn't a higher rated setup with the same components out there.

What is the difference in load leveling with airbags or OEM installed overloads? They both do the same thing, support the load for a level ride. They both provide an additional point on the frame for the load, and take some strain off of the main pack. Airbags just do a better job of it with varying loads.

I have nothing wrong with being extra careful, which is why it's important to understand the actual load ratings and application. The door sticker is a lousy way of knowing what the truck can safely do on a HD pickup. The door sticker reflects marketing more than capacity since a 2500 has to be rated lower than a 3500SRW, and the SRW has to be rated lower than a DRW. In 2011 the 3500 SRW had the tire and axle limits to have a GVWR of over 11,700, and frame that was rated higher than that on the DRW, so why limit it to 10,100?? Marketing and sales.

Since you like looking at the 13+ trucks the 3500 SRW now has a GVWR of 12,300.. more than the DRW for 05 and the same as the DRW in '11. What's the difference? They needed it for marketing, as there is only 800lbs more of rear axle capacity but 2,000lbs more GVWR. It's not only the tires, and it's not the frame/brakes (the frame/brakes already carried the 12,300 GVWR).. so what else besides marketing?

With all the data you have posted that isn't correct or isn't relevant your going to get a rebuttal, the point is to help someone out not to feed them false or irrelevant data.

 

[NC Hauler]

It appears you know it all...bottom line, I won't recommend some one do something that might be unsafe or could prematurely wear out their truck. Maybe you can, but I can't do it just because some one wants to hear it, no matter the consequences. Yeah, all the trucks are the same, badging means nothing...A 2500 is really a 3500 and on. You win. You're the expert.I bow to your superiority...whatever you say is right, no matter the consequences or if it's safe..I'm out.

 

[AH64ID]

It appears you know it all...bottom line, I won't recommend some one do something that might be unsafe or could prematurely wear out their truck. Maybe you can, but I can't do it just because some one wants to hear it, no matter the consequences. Yeah, all the trucks are the same, badging means nothing...A 2500 is really a 3500 and on. You win. You're the expert.I bow to your superiority...whatever you say is right, no matter the consequences or if it's safe..I'm out.

Chill out and take the blinders off.

Have a friendly conversation, and at least answer the questions that were asked of you. No need to get so defensive.

Bottom line, it's all publicly available information.

 

[SnoKing]

I will weigh is here! If I buy a new RAM it will be a SRW 3500, as I just do not want to live with a dually for a daily driver as a lot of others. The long bed crew should be good for 35-3700 pin weight with the OEM SRW's rim/tires. And fails within the 17K tow rating. If I want to go to a new 5th wheel that pushed me past that limit I would go the 19.5 rim/tire route and never look back! The only thing I would like is for RAM to offer 3.73 in the SRW trucks. But I could cut a deal like Cummins12V98 did with Dave Smith Motors for a gear change before delivery, as the $1500 quote he got was a bargin!

Now that the suspension on the 2500 is going a different direction (Grocery Getter) I would not do this with a new 2500 without the leaf springs. And I am not sold on the 3500 rear air that I have seen in the works. It is my belief that the new 2500 truck camper issues, have the RAM engineers burning some midnight oil looking at this new 3500 air a second time before release.

In Washington State pickups have to purchase tonnage. The state uses a formula to set the minimum tonnage, that is they licensed my 2001.5 8800 GVWR truck at 12K. So if I very carefully loaded it with in the OEM front axle rating and using the optional LT265 rear tire rating I can get within a few pounds of 12,000 and be legal in Washington and the other 49 states. I do not know the rating of my front Dana 60 diff, but the rear Dana 70 has a 8500 pound rating I believe. The simple fact is no pickup is going to exceed the federal bridge weight laws, which is what is enforced by the real weight police, not be be confused with RV.net weight police!!! A savvy LEO could look to be sure you are within your tire limits. And your home state might be concerned that you are paying for enough tonnage to cover your load. Of course over on RV.net to will be thrown in jail three times over and the key will be mailed to BFE!

Not to offend any of my good friends that own duallies, but their seems to be a bit of righteousness that comes along with that chassis/wheel setup. There is however more than one way to skin a cat, and 19.5 rims/tires are one. They provide very decent increases in load capacity and stability for the cost out lay. One only has to be concerned about vehicle manufacturer warranty issues, as you are not breaking any law going this route, provided you have the correct weight license in your state for the load.

So lets put the ******* match aside and enjoy what we have! Life is suppose to be fun!

SNOKING

 

[MGreer]

I was looking through my copy of the differentials manual from Randy's ring and pinion and found some interesting numbers.
The book is copyrighted in 2010 but he does mention some 2011 diffs. The srw 2500 axle tube is 3.5 inches in diameter and the axle tube wall thickness is .212 inches thick. The 3500 drw axle tube is 4.0 inches in diameter and the axle tube wall thickness is .559 inches thick.
These numbers are on the aam 11.5. I went out and measured the axle tube diameter on my drw and it read 4.159 inches in diameter.
In this book he states that all listed specs are from the manufacturer.


Hope this helps.