Amsoil and the API

[Don M]

Bob,



Thanks for clearing up the statement that the NEW Amsoil 5w-20 is not API licensed.

Remember Bob, the "meets API specs" and API certified or licensed is not what we are talking about. You wrote:



"In fACT, amsoil makes an API certified oil for just about every application out there,"



You have included oils in your last post that are not API certified as per the API site. API has no listing for this one:



Now, product code XLF and XLT 5w-30 and 10w-30 are Amsoil's full synthetic API certified oils that meet

API SJ, CF

ILSAC GF-2

CHRYSLER MS6395 H

FORD ESE M2C-153G

GM 4718M & 6094M

JASO VTW

MERCEDES BENZ AG 226. 1



or this one:



And the 10w-40 synthetic blend, product code PMO

API SL, SJ, SH, CF, CD

Ford Spec. WSS-M2C153-G

Chrysler MS 6395-H

VW 500. 0, 501. 01

Mercedes-Benz AG 226. 1

JASO-MB



or this one:



And our Synthetic SAE30

API Service CF, CF-2, SH, SJ, SL

ACEA/CCMC D4, PD2

MIL-L-2104F

Caterpillar Powershift Trans. TO-2 and TO-3

Allison C-3 and C-4

Mack EO-L, EO-M

M. A. N. 270

Mercedes-Benz AG 227. 0, 228. 0

Scania Long Drain

Volvo VDS

VW 505. 00



Three of the four oils above you say are API certified or licensed are in fact are NOT licensed or certified.

Do you know the difference between "meets API specs" and API licensed? I dont think you do. Like I said before... the coverage you speak of does not exist.



here are the API licensed oils from the API site:

http://www.api.org/cgi-bin/eolcs_li.cgi?k=767



Bob,



No manufacturer will ever name a brand of oil they dont like. Mark Bara will also tell you that the oils required for Detroit Diesel is required to have an API license. Tell him the oil you would like him to comment on is not API licensed and see what he says. He will never make a negative comment on Amsoil because of lawsuits. Detroits position is not to tell anyone what oils are considered junk and which ones are not. They simply ask that the oils be API licensed.

 

[Bob Riley]

Don,



I am looking at the containers you speak of. It lists API service catagories and the ratings it meets.

Your drawing straws now. If you are truely interested, keep it as factual as you can, please. And I will do the same.



Bob

 

[Don M]

Originally posted by Bob Riley

Don,



I am looking at the containers you speak of. It lists API service catagories and the ratings it meets.

Your drawing straws now. If you are truely interested, keep it as factual as you can, please. And I will do the same.



Bob

Im not drawing straws... you stated that the oils were API certified, not they "meet APi specs"



"In fACT, amsoil makes an API certified oil for just about every application out there,"



These are your words not mine. I only pointed out that the API has not licensed or certified the oils. Amsoil has you believing the oils are all certified when they in fact are not. How do you think the average consumer can figure the oils certification out or not if the salesmen cant?



Don~

 

[Bob Riley]

Don,

You sent me the link and those three oils are in fact right there. Am I missing something?



BRAND NAME SAE VISCOSITY GRADE SERVICE CATEGORY

AMSOIL PCO 15W-40 SJ/CH-4

AMSOIL XL-7500 10W-30 SJ/CF*

AMSOIL XL-7500 5W-30 SJ/CF*





And you haven't commented on the Eaton/Fuller that you told Wayne was bogus.



Bob

 

[Don M]

Originally posted by Bob Riley

Don, I just got off the phone with Eaton/Fuller. The 5year/750,000 warrantee does indeed exist. It is for specific applications and requires nothing but using a fluid that meets CD-50 specs.



Amsoil Powershift Transmission fluid that meets

Caterpillar TO-4

Allison C-4 and TES-295

HD Torque and Drivetrain

Eaton Fuller CD-30 (SAE 30)

Eaton Fuller CD-50 (SAE 50)



And since transmission fluid does not get certified, show me how it is not approved for use.



Bob

Again you are taking stuff out of context. . Wayne told me that there was an oil drain interval for 750,000 miles when in fact there is not. The longest you can leave it in is 500,000 miles.

The warranty was never brought up in the previous threads.

I never said a word and neither did Wayne about warranty.



here are his words:



DonM,

I can assure you that Amsoil has done, and continues to do "Real World" testing, such as large fleets, as well as lab tests, and they do cost a ton of MONEY! In fact, an independent test in the "Real World" of fleet testing of class 8 trucks using this product in the differentials obtained up to 4. 8 percent more MPG than the other trucks in the same trucks using another popular gear lube. This would tell me that the Amsoil 75W-90 was producing less friction, and of course less friction means less heat! I can also assure you that the gear lube in question (Series 2000 75W-90 )is approved for Eaton/Rockwell applications, which will allow for a drain interval of up to 750,000 miles.



As someone else mentioned on this site, they also have a warranty which states:"AMSOIL INC. warrants the use of its lubricants will not cause mechanical damage to mechanicly sound equipment when the products are used in full compliance with Amsoil recommendations. " This to me is a win win situation!



And please do not tell me that if I use their product, "my warranty will be voided"! There is a law that protects me from that!





Best regards,





Wayne

amsoilman



Please find me in that paragraph where he said anything about warranty. He states that there is a drain interval which will allow the oil to be in the transmission for up to 750,000 miles. Its BOGUS Bob. BOGUS!! Eaton says 500,000 miles is the longest and Amsoil dont make the cut at 250,000 miles.



Don~

 

[Bob Riley]

Don, this post is covering too many topics to keep it all straight. So, you have a problem with their claims, their filters, their oil ratings, etc. This is far from someone really just wanting info.



If any of what you have been saying about all these OEM not approving Amsoil were true, there would be a lot of mad people by now. It's been nearly 30 years.





And as far as your long ago post about it causing leaks. I look around the parking lots and business must be good for lots of AMsoildealers, cause theirs an oil slick in just about every slot.



I really am done with this. I don't have time right now. Have a good one.



Bob

 

[Don M]

Originally posted by Bob Riley

Don,

You sent me the link and those three oils are in fact right there. Am I missing something?



BRAND NAME SAE VISCOSITY GRADE SERVICE CATEGORY

AMSOIL PCO 15W-40 SJ/CH-4

AMSOIL XL-7500 10W-30 SJ/CF*

AMSOIL XL-7500 5W-30 SJ/CF*





And you haven't commented on the Eaton/Fuller that you told Wayne was bogus.



Bob

No oil is licensed from the API that is fully synthetic. It appears that some of the blended oils are licensed. Hince, the link I provided.

Again, NO AMSOIL FULLY SYNTHETIC OIL IS LICENSED BY THE API.



Don~

 

[Bob Riley]

Don, I'll aswer that one cause you must be confused. Amsoil's XL7500 line IS FULLY SYNTHETIC. I said that earlier.

Bob

 

[Don M]

Slybones said:



"Well Don when I read the Amsoil site I dont see where they claim they are "approved" by MACK. They only claim that the product is "designed to meet or exceed the specification".



Your words were "You will find the Amsoil is not approved in the MACK guidelines Amsoil says they are on the containers of the fully synthetic oils. " -- The way I read it, NO they dont. "



Slybones,



MACK will not approve the use of the oils from AMSOIL that are fully synthetic. One oil is approved for use and its the blended flavor. The way I read it Amsoil does not claim they are approved either. There are/were so many conversations going around I got confused.

Bottom line: Amsoil has listed on their containers of certain oils the wording MACK, EO-L, EO-L Plus, etc and the oils are not listed on all the lists of MACK approved lubricants. 2 of the 3 oils the have the wording MACK, EO-L, EO-L Plus, etc are not approved for use by MACK. Why would Amsoil use these words? They are word play and confusing to consumers. They even appeared to have had Bob Riley thinking that all Amsoil oils were API certified and he sells it. How is the consumer gonna figure it all out?



Don~

 

[SteveH]

Don M

You've made the same defective point in dozens of posts in this thread and you keep bringing up the same ole rhetoric in every post. Please save what dignity you may have left and let the thread go its merry way. We can all see that you are poisoned with Amsoil. I don't make money selling it, but I use it and am very pleased with it. I have worked in a refinery for 20 years and know the qualities of petroleum based vrs. synthetics. Why not back off now and let the thread take whatever course it will. There is no need or desire from the rest of us to see you try unsuccessfully to refute every post on the thread using unfounded information. Not censorship, its just that we already know your personal feelings about Amsoil.

Steve H.

 

[Don M]

Originally posted by Bob Riley

Don, I'll aswer that one cause you must be confused. Amsoil's XL7500 line IS FULLY SYNTHETIC. I said that earlier.

Bob

Bob,



yep you are correct. My bad.



Don~

 

[Riflesmith]

A ways back in this thread you posed some questions for me:



Quote:

"Riflesmith,



Why do you want to continue to attribute what I post about AMsoil's lack of API certification as bashing. I have clearly stated now more than three times that the API topic was the reason for the thread. The fact that the API cert. or license is not held is not the same as bashing. If the fact the license is not held is not a big deal why do you feel threatened by my posting it?

The oil leaks we can leave out. Although the leaks are more likely than not caused from the oil.



Extended oil drains in bombed trucks is another fact that can be proven with some research to be a bad thing for the Ram with the Cummins engine. The research has been done over and over again by every major engine manufacturer out there.



I gotta know, did you have the soot levels checked in your samples. What were they?"

 

[Riflesmith]

Don,

Soot Levels:

7,500 miles, 0%. 15,000 miles, 0%. 22,500 miles, 0%. 30,000 miles, 0%. with me so far? So much for bypass filters not being able to remove soot.



As for not bashing a product, that does not bear close examination either.



Quote:

"By-pass filters cant effectively remove soot. "



Quote:

"I just wanted everyone to know that the oil was not licensed by the API, I had a terrible experience with it, and high soot levels in heavy fueled engines is a nightmare. "



Quote:

"My truck now leaks, highly likely from the Scamsoil. "

Not bashing? Yeah you have me convinced.

 

[Riflesmith]

As to your feeling threatened statement, this is ludricrous. Why would I be threatened by your opinions. No, insulted would be a more correct term.



The Amsoil bashers always wonder why they get terse replies when they post their attacks. Here is your reason. You are telling users of these products they are stupid and are in need of your guidance.



I, for one, do not need the advice of anyone when it comes to how to properly care for my truck. I have solid, analytical evidence to back up what I am doing.



A shame, this entire thread generated because of some marginal oil seals. If Amsoil causes so many oil leaks, why don't I have any?

I was taught that when a seal leak develops, you change out the seal, instead of blaming the oil. Once again, enough already.

 

[Don M]

Riflesmith,



0% soot. Something is amiss IMO. No problem though if your confident in Amsoil thats all that matters right?



I wil agree the scamsoil part is marginally out of line.

I stick behind the by-pass statement. I stick behind the leaks more than likely being from Amsoil.

I stick behind high soot levels being a problem with heavily fueled engines as well. Amsoil is not API licensed as well for the type of oil I was using. 15w40 HDD&M. Just a fact not a bash. My intention was to not make folks that use Amsoil feel anything. Bad or good. These oil topic seems to go nowhere, but look at the number of people who looked at the thread and posted. Lots. I have over 15 e-mailsin positive response from the thread. These guys never posted either. I know some of the amsoilers did not post either. It aint a fight Riflesmith. Nothing personal on my side. Sorry you felt insulted.





Don~

 

[Riflesmith]

Don,

So now that I have posted my soot numbers, they are faulty? Is that what I am to understand? I am sure that Wheeler Machinery, the CAT dealer for Utah would beg to differ. They test oil from heavy equipment all over the Intermountain area. I am sure their test methods are faulty. Not just on one test, but four.

I submit that I have acheived what my Wife said could not be done. I have found someone as "hardheaded" as myself.



Understand that though our opinions and beliefs may differ, I wish you all the best and hope you can get your seal problems remedied ASAP.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Riflesmith



I'll take good oil analysis reports over API certification any day. Amsoil works very well in my Cummins and I trust them.

.

Can you say "I'm my own warranty station"



Some of us don't want to say that . I did not take from Don M's posts that he was bashing anyones product, just sharing information that helps members make an informed choice when they buy oil for their Cummins. I was not aware of the fact that the Amsoil oil that others on the list maybe using in their trucks did not meet the stated requirements of Dodge or Cummins (API certifcation). Without this knowledge I might have used this oil in my truck (that might not of been a problem, but that is a risk I am not willing to take) It is commonly known that if I install an EZ or bigger injectors that cause a problem then I am my own warranty station for those problems. This was a new one on me and I would like to thank Don for bring it to my attention. On the other hand I am sure that Amsoil is a great oil based on the posts by members that have been using it. If they like it and it gives them the performance they desire then I am sure they will keep using it. I hope that others in the TDR will continue to inform us of what they discover so we can make our own decisions on what we want to use in/on our trucks.

 

[Cooker]

I will chime in here about By-Pass filters removing soot. Yes it is possible.



Does the Amsoil By-Pass filter remove soot? I don't know as I have had no expereince with the Amsoil By-Pass filters or elements.



-Ryan

 

[DEZLPWR]

I have always been a Mobil 1 synthetic fan...

Don't get me wrong, I don't really have anything against Amway, I mean Amsoil, but I have always been a Mobil 1 fan... . I know that some people could give a rip about the API, but I personally have a hang-up about it and will NOT buy oil from a company that won't bother getting an API classification, period..... That's just my opinion though. I like the comfort and support of boxer-briefs, while others, who like to "hang loose" prefer boxers. It all boils down to PERSONAL preference!

 

[Don M]

Riflesmith,



If indeed you are a riflesmith I wish I had your job. Im a gun collector and shooter too.



Soot as you know, is a by-product of combustion in diesel engines. Soot levels can be tracked to increase or decrease as fueling does the same. Its proven to be linear.

Engine manufacturers have equipment to watch the soot go up and down as the fueling is changed in real time. Oils can disperse or break up soot to a degree. Stock trucks/engines seem to work well with extended oil drain intervals. Fueling over stock levels goes down the tubes fast, as the oil is not designed to deal with the increasing soot as fast as it is getting in. MACK and Cummins have developed tests that change fueling levels during the tests in real time and watch the soot go up at the same time.



Just a guess, but maybe the soot in your oil is dispersed to a smaller particle size than the analyzer is checking for, therfor it does not register in the test. The soot is is there. It has to be. No piston rings seal 100% and combustion by-products get by all of them to some degree.



Our opinions probably only differ on a few things when it all gets hashed out in the end.





Don~