Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter

[steved]

OK, hot engine, at an idle - 1/8 inch orifice = almost EXACTLY 1 quart per minute.



Dunno how much difference the filter media will make with your setup vs my Frantz - but there ya go!

Awesome... I think I will do this in "steps" and start with a 1/16th hole and see what happens. I'm not too sure that my placement doesn't have something to do with it... it took nearly 25 feet of 1/4 inch hose to plumb it up... might be losing some flow to frictional forces of the small diameter hose as someone else pointed out...



Right now I'm dealing with oil leaks... I used a teflon thread dope (from Napa no less) and it seems to have not done a good job... seems to be getting pushed out of the threads... maybe due to the excessive heat... the return side (with the cooler) is unaffected. I tightened several fittings up today... still have one leaking that I'll fix when I get the pressure sending unit installed... mental note to one's self: use tape next time. I thought at first I had simply not gotten the filter tight enough, but it turned out to be leaking at the fittings in the filter head... nothing major, just drips... I then checked the ones further up the line and some of those were also leaking.



Thanks for the info Gary!



steved

 

[steved]

Amsoil's claim is 6 Qts/5 minutes@40 PSI



Wayne

Wayne:



Is this for all oils (in other words: every system would need to be "custom" tuned to get that flow rate)?



One orifice wouldn't fit all in this case since everyone runs different weights of oils...



steved

 

[PRout]

Right now I'm dealing with oil leaks... I used a teflon thread dope (from Napa no less) and it seems to have not done a good job... seems to be getting pushed out of the threads... maybe due to the excessive heat... the return side (with the cooler) is unaffected. I tightened several fittings up today... still have one leaking that I'll fix when I get the pressure sending unit installed... mental note to one's self: use tape next time. I thought at first I had simply not gotten the filter tight enough, but it turned out to be leaking at the fittings in the filter head... nothing major, just drips... I then checked the ones further up the line and some of those were also leaking.

steved

Copied from another thread: "And since the fitting that houses the spring is sealed with an oring, why did you apply permatex?"



Now you know why. (Permatex #2 works well with Oil and Diesel).

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne:



Is this for all oils (in other words: every system would need to be "custom" tuned to get that flow rate)?



One orifice wouldn't fit all in this case since everyone runs different weights of oils...



steved

Oil weights (viscosity) would not effect the flow very much at all. Now if the oil was real cold, yes it would flow a bit slower! Once the oil gets to the operating temp, there should be no problems with the flow. IF you think about it, as the filter gets more debri in it, the flow rate will decrease a bit too.



wayne

amsoilman

 

[steved]

Well, I got everything tightened...



Drilled the orifice out to 5/64"... one step above a 1/16th (because I broke both my 1/16" bits!)...



Damaged the first filter (dohhh!), so after reinstalling a new filter, I rechecked the flow...



I'm getting 4. 5 ounces every 15 seconds... 18 ounces/minute... a little more than 1/2 quart a minute... not too bad... I'm happy.



Even with my limited flow before, the oil is better.



I'll order some new filters tomorrow... BE110s.



steved

 

[steved]

Oil weights (viscosity) would not effect the flow very much at all. Now if the oil was real cold, yes it would flow a bit slower! Once the oil gets to the operating temp, there should be no problems with the flow. IF you think about it, as the filter gets more debri in it, the flow rate will decrease a bit too.



wayne

amsoilman

Thanks Wayne...



I know that as the filter plugs off it will restrict the flow... a good reason to get a baseline flow rate on the new filter.



What is the orifice size in the newer BMK-11 filter heads (the stand alone bypass filter head)???? If I read correctly, they are 0. 046 inch... I'm at 0. 078 inch and I'm still below the Amsoil flow rate...



steved

 

[amsoilman]

Thanks Wayne...



I know that as the filter plugs off it will restrict the flow... a good reason to get a baseline flow rate on the new filter.



What is the orifice size in the newer BMK-11 filter heads (the stand alone bypass filter head)???? If I read correctly, they are 0. 046 inch... I'm at 0. 078 inch and I'm still below the Amsoil flow rate...



steved

I just went out and measured one, and it is 0. 035 in.



wayne

amsoilman

 

[steved]

I just went out and measured one, and it is 0. 035 in.



wayne

amsoilman

Have you ever checked your flow rate? Mine was 2 ounces/minute with the . 030.



Can you check??



Thanks,

steved

 

[amsoilman]

Have you ever checked your flow rate? Mine was 2 ounces/minute with the . 030.



Can you check??



Thanks,

steved

No, I have never really been concerned with that, and I have had these by-pass systems on all my vehicles, including my boat. The only times I look at the flow, is when I take samples, but I have never actually checked to see how much flow there was.



I will check it out for you, however, and let you know.



wayne

amsoilman

 

[steved]

No, I have never really been concerned with that, and I have had these by-pass systems on all my vehicles, including my boat. The only times I look at the flow, is when I take samples, but I have never actually checked to see how much flow there was.



I will check it out for you, however, and let you know.



wayne

amsoilman

Yeah, if you don't mind... I was no where near the advertised flow rate... even extremely not (an hence flowable) oil wouldn't run through my system at a quart a minute with the 0. 030" opening (maybe 4 ounces max at highway RPMs)... or even with the 0. 78" opening I currently have... and my 1/4 inch hose isn't that restrictive.



steved

 

[steved]

No, I have never really been concerned with that, and I have had these by-pass systems on all my vehicles, including my boat. The only times I look at the flow, is when I take samples, but I have never actually checked to see how much flow there was.



I will check it out for you, however, and let you know.



wayne

amsoilman

Any news?? Very curious to know what you are getting for a flow rate...



steved

 

[amsoilman]

Yeah, if you don't mind... I was no where near the advertised flow rate... even extremely not (an hence flowable) oil wouldn't run through my system at a quart a minute with the 0. 030" opening (maybe 4 ounces max at highway RPMs)... or even with the 0. 78" opening I currently have... and my 1/4 inch hose isn't that restrictive.



steved

Well I just had the opertunity to check the flow as you asked. Outside temp was 45 F. Engine had not been operated for 24 hours, and the flow was measured at 14 ounces in 5 minutes.



Wayne

amsoiloman

 

[steved]

Well I just had the opertunity to check the flow as you asked. Outside temp was 45 F. Engine had not been operated for 24 hours, and the flow was measured at 14 ounces in 5 minutes.



Wayne

amsoiloman

Do you think that's a little low? Maybe that's why the Amsoils don't seem to work as well as the TP filters?? Not cycling the oil through fast enough?



Mine was approximately 10oz/5minutes cold... when it was hot it didn't increase much... maybe 15oz/5minutes?



Now with the 5/64" hole, I'm at 18oz/minute or 90oz/5minutes... still low for the 192oz/5minutes (6quarts/5minutes) Amsoil states it flows... I'm opened up larger than the report "large" amsoil opening, but still under the 2MM Cummins (I think it was Cummins) requirement...



I still don't know what parameters Amsoil used to come up with that small of an orifice, but that's two bypass units that flow no where near what they claim...



steved

 

[steved]

Now I'm wondering about other Amsoil owners... anyone else ever do a flow rate test on your Amsoil Bypass Filter??



I'm wondering if it is the head... almost has to be since mine increased with drilling out the head... if it was something else, that should not have had any affect.



Anyone else add to this?



steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

While there is reason for concern when/if clearly published flow rates are not met, there needs to be caution that the flow does NOT exceed the ability of the filter media to do it's job.



It is entirely possible with some filter media, to provide too much flow and pressure, to the extent that the impurities you are attempting to remove are merely forced on thru the filter because of excessive flow rate.



If I was to err on flow rates, I'd far rather err on the LOW side of flow, rather than too much - all that happens with lower flow, is that it will still do it's advertised filtration, just at a somewhat slower pace.

 

[steved]

While there is reason for concern when/if clearly published flow rates are not met, there needs to be caution that the flow does NOT exceed the ability of the filter media to do it's job.



It is entirely possible with some filter media, to provide too much flow and pressure, to the extent that the impurities you are attempting to remove are merely forced on thru the filter because of excessive flow rate.



If I was to err on flow rates, I'd far rather err on the LOW side of flow, rather than too much - all that happens with lower flow, is that it will still do it's advertised filtration, just at a somewhat slower pace.

I agree 100%... I was concerned about being so far away from the Amsoil flow rate. . I was under 10% (about 5% actually) of what they claimed the flow rate to be... I'm not going to mod mine any more... the flow I have now is good enough for me IMO (now just shy of 50% of the advertised flow rate)... and again, anything is better than nothing.



According to other posts about the Amsoil filters, you can't force anything through the amsoil filter... they will plug off first... but I could see having more residence time in the filter might allow the particulates to filter out better too...



I just ordered some EaBE100s today... I'm going to South Carolina next week... I'm realy curious to see how this is going to work out...



steved

 

[amsoilman]

I agree 100%... I was concerned about being so far away from the Amsoil flow rate. . I was under 10% (about 5% actually) of what they claimed the flow rate to be... I'm not going to mod mine any more... the flow I have now is good enough for me IMO (now just shy of 50% of the advertised flow rate)... and again, anything is better than nothing.



According to other posts about the Amsoil filters, you can't force anything through the amsoil filter... they will plug off first... but I could see having more residence time in the filter might allow the particulates to filter out better too...



I just ordered some EaBE100s today... I'm going to South Carolina next week... I'm realy curious to see how this is going to work out...



steved

I just got off the phone with technical services at Amsoil Inc. they said they recently tested the flow of the BMK-11, which has the 0. 046 restricter oriface installed (recently changed to this size for the new EaoPB filters).



THE FLOW WAS 0. 165 gA/1minute@750 RPM, and 0. 193 GA/1MINUTE@1500 RPM. This was using a calibrated instrument, which is a 1K MILILITER Cylinder.

You have to remember, the oriface is there for two reasons. One to keep the Oil pressure from dropping, and the other to keep the flow through the filter at a redused rate. If you have ever seen one of these cut apart, the are very dense filters. I will try to attach a photo of one cut apart. Of courxe the new EaOPB is going to be commpletley different.



BTW, this picture is of a BE-90 element. The BE-100 (used on the Dodge) is bigger in length only.



wayne

amsoilman







This test was with a Cummins 5. 9L engine.

 

[steved]

I just got off the phone with technical services at Amsoil Inc. they said they recently tested the flow of the BMK-11, which has the 0. 046 restricter oriface installed (recently changed to this size for the new EaoPB filters).



THE FLOW WAS 0. 165 gA/1minute@750 RPM, and 0. 193 GA/1MINUTE@1500 RPM. This was using a calibrated instrument, which is a 1K MILILITER Cylinder.

You have to remember, the oriface is there for two reasons. One to keep the Oil pressure from dropping, and the other to keep the flow through the filter at a redused rate. If you have ever seen one of these cut apart, the are very dense filters. I will try to attach a photo of one cut apart. Of courxe the new EaOPB is going to be commpletley different.



BTW, this picture is of a BE-90 element. The BE-100 (used on the Dodge) is bigger in length only.



wayne

amsoilman







This test was with a Cummins 5. 9L engine.

0. 165 gallon [US, liquid] = 21. 12 ounce [US, liquid]



At 18oz/minute, I'm not to far off am I!?!? I couldn't get much luckier than that!!



Awesome!! I am stoked now, I have it installed and it is close to what Amsoil has spec'd the filters for!!!! It was pure luck, but who cares... it is correct!!



Thanks,

steved

 

[steved]

As an update... I definately am happy with the Amsoil filter... my oil is usually black by this time after an oil change, to the point you cannot see through to the dipstick. While it is black (or really dark gray), it is still transparent to the point I can read the dipstick markings... a significant change from before.



I have about 750 miles on this oil... going to South Carolina tomorrow, so it will get a good test really quick. Having the orifice opened up seems to work better...



steved

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

As an update... I definately am happy with the Amsoil filter... my oil is usually black by this time after an oil change, to the point you cannot see through to the dipstick. While it is black (or really dark gray), it is still transparent to the point I can read the dipstick markings... a significant change from before.



I have about 750 miles on this oil... going to South Carolina tomorrow, so it will get a good test really quick. Having the orifice opened up seems to work better...



steved

Steve, if the Amsoil unit is anything like my Frantz, the benefit will definitely be most evident out at steady speed on the open road - that's where you are most likely to see your oil get significantly clearer as the miles go by.



Good luck!